shot selection question for you all

lll

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vero beach fl
why did fransisco play his safety the way he did bringing all the balls up table
when to me he could have moved the stripe to his side and "high karate" the cue ball to stay on the foot rail leaving distance ??
......:confused:......:confused:
your opinions welcome
here is the layout...... the shot .......and how he left them
fe50.jpg

fe51.jpg

fe53.jpg
 

NH Steve

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Good question Larry -- what was the score in the game at the time? If Efren only need like one, Busty may have been concerned about leaving a straight back -- which he might have playing to kill the cue ball there.
 

lll

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Good question Larry -- what was the score in the game at the time? If Efren only need like one, Busty may have been concerned about leaving a straight back -- which he might have playing to kill the cue ball there.

Score efren 6
Busty 5
 

onepockethacker

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Bustamante is showing you a shot that I use all the time and you better learn it. He happened to hit it a hair too hard thats all. A hair softer and he leaves ZIP, ZERO NADA.. Playing the shot your way there is a good chance you leave a 2 railer... By the way when the cue ball and object balls are even more straight in line his shot is by far the best option to get away without leaving an offensive return.
 

Tom Wirth

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Larry,

I agree with Rob's answer. The problem with your solution, " high Karate" is in the angle of approach. Because the shot must be hit slightly to the right of center on the object ball to avoid a double kiss, the cue ball will move to the right and likely sell out a straight back or two rail bank as Rob correctly suggested. Busty's shot allows the cue ball to take a natural path two rails up table and into a safe position. With low, left hand english and a somewhat thinner hit, ihe object ball should swing two rails toward the top rail and on your side. The speed of this shot should be very predictable but B hit the shot to hard. The key to planning the resulting position is to leave the object ball slightly closer to the top rail than the cue ball and on opposite side rails.

Rob is right again in that this should be a staple shot in every One Pocket players arsenal. Had the cue ball and object ball been on a greater angle to the cushion, your "high karate" shot would be a fine answer because the shot could be hit directly without a risk of double kiss and the cue ball would stay put.

Tom
 
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straightback

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This is a standard old-timer shot. Pete Fusco uses this shot more than any I have seen.

It probably doesn't appeal to a lot of people as you have to control both balls.
 

keoneyo

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I like shooting the object ball (medium speed) with high inside (right) sending the 13 two rails into the cluster of balls on the top rail or if not where it ended up. Leaving whitey near the second diamond near the hole on Efrens side.
As it is Busty sold out a cross bank which could have allowed Efren to bank and tuck the CB on the cluster on the top rail.

Shooting this shot allows you to focus on opening up the balls on your side of the table. Leaving 3 balls open on your side of the table for banks if given the opportunity.
 
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keoneyo

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he banked the 13 but missed
they played on from there

Presented with that bank, I hope Efren tried to place whitey underneath the cluster of 2 balls on the rail or frozen to it giving Busty a difficult time trying to get the 13 to safety.
 

Frank Almanza

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Busty hit the shot the way it should be hit with the way they were laying. The hi karate shot is hit when the object ball is very tight to the rail but the cue ball needed to be a bit more to his left for that shot to work.

If the object ball is not so close to the rail then I would hit it with high right to get the cue ball to the first diamond on the long rail while being careful to get the object ball out of the banking lane.

Normally the shot he did you would like for both the object ball and the cue ball to wind up parallel to each other on the long rail at the other end of the table. He wanted to be careful not to give up a two railer on one of those two balls that are uptable. If he had cut the object ball just a bit more he would have positioned it closer to those two balls.
 

lll

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Busty hit the shot the way it should be hit with the way they were laying. The hi karate shot is hit when the object ball is very tight to the rail but the cue ball needed to be a bit more to his left for that shot to work.

If the object ball is not so close to the rail then I would hit it with high right to get the cue ball to the first diamond on the long rail while being careful to get the object ball out of the banking lane.

Normally the shot he did you would like for both the object ball and the cue ball to wind up parallel to each other on the long rail at the other end of the table. He wanted to be careful not to give up a two railer on one of those two balls that are uptable. If he had cut the object ball just a bit more he would have positioned it closer to those two balls.
frank
thanks for the reply
im pleased im getting a few more responces about when to hit the "high karate" and when to hit this shot
the nuances that you guys who have been there done that many times
is REALLY helpful for us that dont have as much experience....:)
 

LSJohn

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monett missouri
frank
thanks for the reply
im pleased im getting a few more responces about when to hit the "high karate" and when to hit this shot
the nuances that you guys who have been there done that many times
is REALLY helpful for us that dont have as much experience....:)

What I like about Busty's shot is that even though it's not easy to leave both balls exactly as I'd prefer, it yields a decent result almost every time.
 

onepockethacker

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Larry there is a match on youtube from the Galveston tournament they had a few years ago. Gabe Owens plays this shot against i believe Scott Frost and Danny Harriman who was commentating said what a great shot that was and he just learned something from Gabe on that shot... interesting
 

wincardona

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Larry,

I agree with Rob's answer. The problem with your solution, " high Karate" is in the angle of approach. Because the shot must be hit slightly to the right of center on the object ball to avoid a double kiss, the cue ball will move to the right and likely sell out a straight back or two rail bank as Rob correctly suggested. Busty's shot allows the cue ball to take a natural path two rails up table and into a safe position. With low, left hand english and a somewhat thinner hit, ihe object ball should swing two rails toward the top rail and on your side. The speed of this shot should be very predictable but B hit the shot to hard. The key to planning the resulting position is to leave the object ball slightly closer to the top rail than the cue ball and on opposite side rails.

Rob is right again in that this should be a staple shot in every One Pocket players arsenal. Had the cue ball and object ball been on a greater angle to the cushion, your "high karate" shot would be a fine answer because the shot could be hit directly without a risk of double kiss and the cue ball would stay put.


Tom
Larry, your shot requires hitting a full ball to get the action with the cue ball you desire, however, the angle referenced here suggest that a full ball hit will often result in a kiss. Is it possible to hit a full ball with this shot? Yes it is, however, if you hit a full ball here your ability to control the OB will be compromised and you will lose control of the OB sending it three cushions toward your pocket:eek: resulting in a possible sell out.

This angle suggest that the safety is the better choice than the three in the corner for several reasons, first being that the angle for three in the corner is laying too long, secondly the speed needed for the shot is very difficult to control usually ending up in a sell out when missed. Bustamante played the shot correctly, except he traveled too far with the cue ball. Play the cue ball short of the top rail, using this method will make it easier to control both balls.

Dr. Bill
 
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wincardona

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Larry,

I agree with Rob's answer. The problem with your solution, " high Karate" is in the angle of approach. Because the shot must be hit slightly to the right of center on the object ball to avoid a double kiss, the cue ball will move to the right and likely sell out a straight back or two rail bank as Rob correctly suggested. Busty's shot allows the cue ball to take a natural path two rails up table and into a safe position. With low, left hand english and a somewhat thinner hit, ihe object ball should swing two rails toward the top rail and on your side. The speed of this shot should be very predictable but B hit the shot to hard. The key to planning the resulting position is to leave the object ball slightly closer to the top rail than the cue ball and on opposite side rails.

Rob is right again in that this should be a staple shot in every One Pocket players arsenal. Had the cue ball and object ball been on a greater angle to the cushion, your "high karate" shot would be a fine answer because the shot could be hit directly without a risk of double kiss and the cue ball would stay put.

Tom
Tom, I find that this shot is easiest to control with a center ball hit (cue ball) using outside english..left english with this shot. The speed of the shot should be hit so the cue ball "falls short" of the top rail. Usually hitting the shot with this speed will enable you to control both balls more comfortably.

My description of the way I play this shot obviously wasn't directed at you Tom, i'm sure you're very skilled with the execution of the shot. My description was directed toward any one that's not familiar or comfortable shooting this type of shot, hopefully those few will have a better understanding of the shot.

Dr. Bill
 
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