The Wedge

sappo

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Playing the Wedge: (especially when you are behind in the score)

When the balls are over-clustered on his side on the back rail, the simplest solution is to keep thinning and clumping them even further together. No banks go for him and he has no real advantage at this point. It can even be a disadvantage because all the banking lanes to his pocket are closed. I try to keep thinning until I can make one in that back pocket, get it spotted up and hide the cue ball or jack him up so he cant shoot the ball safe off the spot. The plan is to get two balls up on the spot where it becomes even more difficult to move them safely. Keep in mind, where ever those balls land, your banking lanes are all open. With other balls loose on the table that cluster now becomes a liability. It is, of course, a tedious process and takes much patience. But it is much easier to be patient when you have a plan in place.



this is a quote from the beards web site under his stragety section. my question is which side of the table do you want the wedge to be on, your side or your opponents side: a. when you are ahead and b. when you are behind? and of course please explain the reasoning behind your opinion. also i like freddies plan when behind, but when you are ahead and the balls are wedged up by a pocket any suggestions on the best plan to win? Sappo
 
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senor

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sappo said:
my question is which side of the table do you want the wedge to be on, your side or your opponents side: a. when you are ahead and b. when you are behind? and of course please explain the reasoning behind your opinion. also i like freddies plan when behind, but when you are ahead and the balls are wedged up by a pocket any suggestions on the best plan to win? Sappo

If I had to answer, I would want the wedge on the side of the table that did not prevent me from shooting. However, my real answer would be it doesn't make too much of a difference. A wedge is a wedge. Try not to get lackadaisical in your approach to the game, because it can get a little tedious. But lazy shots are when unforced errors are made. That's part of the strategy of the wedge.
 

lll

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i want the wedge on his side . that leaves my banking lanes open.
curious to hear what the upper level players say but if im up in the score i still want to get a ball in play . i have to score to win:rolleyes: . if im behind the same thought process.remember all the other balls are out of play
 

beatle

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i wouldnt have a clue. anyone that plays like that gets a pass from me. time is money and life is important and it is no fun or profit to spend hours ticking balls. guys that play like that are usually hard to beat and dont lose alot and take way too long to do anything.
 

Skin

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lll said:
i want the wedge on his side . that leaves my banking lanes open.
curious to hear what the upper level players say but if im up in the score i still want to get a ball in play . i have to score to win:rolleyes: . if im behind the same thought process.remember all the other balls are out of play

I agree, Larry. Sometimes a mini-wedge (5 or 6 balls) just forms and I like it better on his side. You can make a lot of progress moving if you can plant him up in there over and over where he can't knock the ball(s) away from your hole. I do that regularly to one of the guys I play who is not always careful about where he is sending a ball uptable.

Skin
 

sappo

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when you are in the lead, say you are ahead 6 to 2, should you be offensively tring to move a a ball out of the wedge towards your pocket or should you let your opponent take the 1st shot and then you work to make that ball? of course i understand if the is a clear shot at my pocket either straight in or a bank im shooting it. im talking about shooting shots that probably will not go but will get a ball down by my pocket. thanks Sappo
 

SJDinPHX

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sappo said:
when you are in the lead, say you are ahead 6 to 2, should you be offensively tring to move a a ball out of the wedge towards your pocket or should you let your opponent take the 1st shot and then you work to make that ball? of course i understand if the is a clear shot at my pocket either straight in or a bank im shooting it. im talking about shooting shots that probably will not go but will get a ball down by my pocket. thanks Sappo

I see nothing wrong with putting a ball down by your hole, as long as you aren't leaving a shot. You still have to get 2 more balls to win, and your opponent has to be a lot more cautious than you do, at that stage of the game.
The wedge is still intact, and after he digs it out, you can put it back in the wedge (if he doesn't screw up getting it out)
A lot depends on if he can make a ball, out of the wedge (in an uptable pocket)... and hook you. You obviously don't want him getting ALL the balls down there, one at a time...stay in control.
 

ChrisBanks

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I recently watched a match with commentary by Billy, Frost, and Deuel. This topic came up.

Billy and Corey specifically stated that they prefer the wedge on their opponents side of the table. Scott specifically states that he wants the wedge on his side of the table. Scott's reasoning was that it creates the possibility of a 3-railer for him.

I need to pay more attention to Scott's matches. But I think maybe he was joking with us, even though he sounded sincere. When Billy and Corey gave their answers, Scott then replied that he must have been doing it wrong his whole life.

I would like to say definitively that the wedge is preferrable on my opponent's side of the table. Is there still any room for argument against it?
 

WillieNilly

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im also one for having the wedge on my side for the same reason scott said, getting position on a 1 or 2 railer from your opponents side is alot more difficult to achieve the a 3 railer from your side IMHO.
down side is may be when your opponent makes a ball and leaves you in the jaws.... but the escape usually isnt all that bad and at times it may even be more beneficial to you if your opponent wants to put balls into play when they have a 4 -7 ball lead leaving you behind the wedge on your side to loosen up a few potential 3 railers on the side rail.
 

ChrisBanks

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im also one for having the wedge on my side for the same reason scott said, getting position on a 1 or 2 railer from your opponents side is alot more difficult to achieve the a 3 railer from your side IMHO.
down side is may be when your opponent makes a ball and leaves you in the jaws.... but the escape usually isnt all that bad and at times it may even be more beneficial to you if your opponent wants to put balls into play when they have a 4 -7 ball lead leaving you behind the wedge on your side to loosen up a few potential 3 railers on the side rail.

I'm interested in looking into this more. My initial instinct is that you will have more opportunities at banks if the wedge is on your opponent's side. But I am not in a position to say which side is preferrable with certainty.
 

vapros

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I don't think there is much strategic advantage in a wedge, so you can build it on either side. The wedge, itself, is the tactic. It's a lump of balls, waiting for someone to make an error, probably due to impatience. When this topic came up here, I went to my library and dug out the 2002 Derby City match between Varner and Mathews. A wedge happens in the fourth game, with Grady ahead 2-1 in games and 3-0 in balls. Varner seemed to be the one to pursue it and Mathews cooperated for a while, but he couldn't stand the pace. You might not, either, trying to watch. No balls were made directly from the wedge, but only thru mistakes that caused balls to escape, and Varner was the beneficiary just about every time. He looked like a beaver building a dam. Every time it sprung a leak, he patched it. If you want to see a wedge, it's right there in that match. Most people might say it is a terrible thing to watch.

I think Freddy understands about wedges. Maybe he will speak up here and give us the real skinny. I can hardly wait fast enough. :frus :frus

P.S. Think of the wedge as the waiting area at the Emergency Room. If you can hang in there long enough, somebody will come and help you.
 
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tylerdurden

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I don't think there is much strategic advantage in a wedge, so you can build it on either side. The wedge, itself, is the tactic. It's a lump of balls, waiting for someone to make an error, probably due to impatience. When this topic came up here, I went to my library and dug out the 2002 Derby City match between Varner and Mathews. A wedge happens in the fourth game, with Grady ahead 2-1 in games and 3-0 in balls. Varner seemed to be the one to pursue it and Mathews cooperated for a while, but he couldn't stand the pace. You might not, either, trying to watch. No balls were made directly from the wedge, but only thru mistakes that caused balls to escape, and Varner was the beneficiary just about every time. He looked like a beaver building a dam. Every time it sprung a leak, he patched it. If you want to see a wedge, it's right there in that match. Most people might say it is a terrible thing to watch.

I think Freddy understands about wedges. Maybe he will speak up here and give us the real skinny. I can hardly wait fast enough. :frus :frus

I 100% agree with all that. Wedges usually naturally form on one side or the other; not so much in the manuevering or skill of one of the players.

I have the classic varner hopkins 100 min wedge game on tape. Varner seems to be very adept at bunting for as long as he needs to in an attempt to get back into games (even with the uber patient hopkins). I like what was said by vapros in that it is a tactic and perhaps too much emphasis is put on which side the wedge is. I bet if players played 100 games with wedges on both sides, things would come out about equal.... if there is a slight advantage, which there could be, it certainly isn't worth risking anything trying to move the wedge to the "proper side".

In short, I feel your thinking during the wedge is much more important that which side it is on.
 
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fred bentivegna

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I much, much prefer that the wedge occurs on my opponents side. Reasons: 3 rails and straight backs are usually not available. But the most important reason is when you are forced to hit the wedge and knock a ball into the pocket, when it spots up it is not available for a shot at his pocket.

Beard
 

Cowboy Dennis

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I don't think there is much strategic advantage in a wedge, so you can build it on either side. The wedge, itself, is the tactic. It's a lump of balls, waiting for someone to make an error, probably due to impatience. When this topic came up here, I went to my library and dug out the 2002 Derby City match between Varner and Mathews. A wedge happens in the fourth game, with Grady ahead 2-1 in games and 3-0 in balls. Varner seemed to be the one to pursue it and Mathews cooperated for a while, but he couldn't stand the pace. You might not, either, trying to watch. No balls were made directly from the wedge, but only thru mistakes that caused balls to escape, and Varner was the beneficiary just about every time. He looked like a beaver building a dam. Every time it sprung a leak, he patched it. If you want to see a wedge, it's right there in that match. Most people might say it is a terrible thing to watch.

I think Freddy understands about wedges. Maybe he will speak up here and give us the real skinny. I can hardly wait fast enough. :frus :frus

P.S. Think of the wedge as the waiting area at the Emergency Room. If you can hang in there long enough, somebody will come and help you.

I 100% agree with all that. Wedges usually naturally form on one side or the other; not so much in the manuevering or skill of one of the players.

I have the classic varner hopkins 100 min wedge game on tape. Varner seems to be very adept at bunting for as long as he needs to in an attempt to get back into games (even with the uber patient hopkins). I like what was said by vapros in that it is a tactic and perhaps too much emphasis is put on which side the wedge is. I bet if players played 100 games with wedges on both sides, things would come out about equal.... if there is a slight advantage, which there could be, it certainly isn't worth risking anything trying to move the wedge to the "proper side".

In short, I feel your thinking during the wedge is much more important that which side it is on.

Out of the mouths of babes:):D:p.


RBL
 

Billy Jackets

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Send Nick Varner a self addressed stamped envelope with your return address on it and a note and 20 dollar bill asking which side you want to be on.
When you get his answer you will know for sure you have the right one.!
 

petie

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Out of the mouths of babes:):D:p.


RBL

This is what I was going to say. Wedges just happen far more often than they are planned. Its a natural outcome of heading North. A lot of sharpshooters hate it when the game goes North. That's precisely why some seasoned players do it. The Wedge is just a natural outcome of balls going North and no one wanting to break anything out. They get tighter and tighter and tighter. I have many times seen perfect triangular racks of balls in one corner or the other.
 

stedyfred

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I prefer the wedge to be on my side of the table also; those balls didn't mysteriously appear there. When leading in the specific rack that is being played, I put them there (high on my side rail or head rail). If a player is leading by a significant ball count and playing the score, the wedge game will take place with that player in the lead in most cases. If balls are on your opponents side in wedge game , when you pocket ball in his upper corner and keep cueball in that area, he is not in very offensive spot. Also I did see the threads ref banking preferences as well and Dr. Bill, Corey, and Scott discussing this in broadcasting a one pocket match.
 
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