gentile/svb game 4 #2

jtompilot · Aug 15, 2012

wincardona said:
First I would like to say that you're selling Shane short by saying that the option he chose was not a good one, which imo it was. The option that both SJD and the Beard liked wasn't available because of how the balls are positioned, and that should of been recognized because of shane passing on an obvious strong shot that was easy to depict. In regard to the 2-6 combo opening up the 8 and 9 balls wasn't available as well because of the position of the 11 ball.

Shane's shot positioned the 11 ball on his side of the table and also positioned the cue ball in a perfect position to protect the balls on his side of the table, in addition to that he didn't leave a return shot for his opponent to improve his position. what's not to like about his shot?

Dr. Bill

Bill there is a lot not to like.

First that's not the best angle on the 11 for the three rail. Ok, he hit it bad. So what, with the 3 ball there it makes an easy escape even if the 11 was better positioned.

Second, Efren and Santos both banked balls to their side when I left them a ball that's in the same position as the 3 and left the qb long and safe to boot.

fred bentivegna · Aug 15, 2012

Frank Almanza said:
If SJD and Freddie agree on the same shot then that's what I'm going with.

You should have by now noticed that SJD is now conspicuous by his absence. Me agreeing with his shot choice has put him into a paranoiac quandary. He needs to learn how to "evolve" like Incardona who somehow justified his knock of one of my shot choices after he and Jim Rempe had on tape, already endorsed the same shot.

Beard

gulfportdoc · Aug 15, 2012

Scrzbill said:
Dr. Bill First thing I would have done was move my cue ball closer to the line. I see Shane and I think alike. I like the three railer for position. Many people forget that patience in one pocket is as important as putting a ball near your hole. I think he wanted to put his cue in the rack. If you notice where the object ball ended, it is obvious he hit it poorly. (who woulda thunk Shane would shoot a shot like a mere mortal) Lastly, and especially since I saw the surgeon yesterday, always, always, listen to the Dr.:sorry:frus

Bill, I like the 3-railer too-- slightly more so than hiding the CB behind the 11; maybe 55-45 more. The CB-hiding shot takes a better touch, depending upon how far the 11 is off the foot rail. It also would take Gentile's 5-ball out of play. Played well, it would force Gentile to bunt the 11 away himself.

On the other hand, the 3-railer lies pretty naturally. I don't think Shane intended to leave the CB in the stack. That would leave easy return shots off the 3 or 11. He may have intended the CB to roll further up table, so as not to leave a shot on the 3.

But Cardone is not going to tend to criticize Shane's selections, or his execution, after the display of wizardry Billy witnessed in their recent contest. Not that Cardone shouldn't have won, rather than break even; but that Shane's execution and shot inventiveness were stunning.

Doc

WillieNilly · Aug 15, 2012

dr.bill,
its not that i think it was the wrong shot, as evident , its was a completely viabal shot. i liked the shot if the 8/9 werent potential trouble balls.

as an opponent i think i wouldve been thrilled to see him shot that shot,just moving the lone ball over to his side, as opposed to him moving/ opening a bunch of balls on his side anyway he does it.

we all know even one lone ball on his side can be dangerous and the beggining of the end for his opponent.

he may (just speculating) have not wanted to force the action if he wasnt absoloutly sure of the outcome of such a shot mentioned by myself and some of our brethren.

He did pick the" highest percentage to execute well shot" available.

best reguards and respect, WN.

P.S. Your a doctor, could you reccomend me a new dentist?....mine seems to have a drinking problem.

wincardona · Aug 15, 2012

fred bentivegna said:
You should have by now noticed that SJD is now conspicuous by his absence. Me agreeing with his shot choice has put him into a paranoiac quandary. He needs to learn how to "evolve" like Incardona who somehow justified his knock of one of my shot choices after he and Jim Rempe had on tape, already endorsed the same shot.

Beard

It should be apparent by now that the way the balls were positioned that your option was not available. Even though i may have endorsed it at that time you must give shane enough credit to be able to see the strength in an obviously strong shot, unless it wasn't available.:frus Surely you can understand that, right? I have.

Dr. Bill

wincardona · Aug 15, 2012

gulfportdoc said:
Bill, I like the 3-railer too-- slightly more so than hiding the CB behind the 11; maybe 55-45 more. The CB-hiding shot takes a better touch, depending upon how far the 11 is off the foot rail. It also would take Gentile's 5-ball out of play. Played well, it would force Gentile to bunt the 11 away himself.

On the other hand, the 3-railer lies pretty naturally. I don't think Shane intended to leave the CB in the stack. That would leave easy return shots off the 3 or 11. He may have intended the CB to roll further up table, so as not to leave a shot on the 3.

But Cardone is not going to tend to criticize Shane's selections, or his execution, after the display of wizardry Billy witnessed in their recent contest. Not that Cardone shouldn't have won, rather than break even; but that Shane's execution and shot inventiveness were stunning.

Doc

You're almost right again, the shot shane chose was much more than 55 to 45 better it was more like 75 to 25 better. Shooting off the 5 ball will not position a ball on Shane's side of the table like he did with the 11 ball. Understanding that he would of just opened up the balls even more for his opponent and accomplished nothing. His shot positioned a ball on his side of the table and protected it, forcing Gentile to play conservatively. there will be many times when playing one pocket when you must try to just change the position of the balls slightly and buy a little time to get an opportunity to develop a stronger position, this imo was one of those times. Shane executed the shot just like he wanted to, and for those who think he hit it poorly don't understand why the shot was chosen.:sorry

Dr. Bill

Cowboy Dennis · Aug 15, 2012

fred bentivegna said:
You should have by now noticed that SJD is now conspicuous by his absence. Me agreeing with his shot choice has put him into a paranoiac quandary. He needs to learn how to "evolve" like Incardona who somehow justified his knock of one of my shot choices after he and Jim Rempe had on tape, already endorsed the same shot.

Beard

wincardona said:
It should be apparent by now that the way the balls were positioned that your option was not available. Even though i may have endorsed it at that time you must give shane enough credit to be able to see the strength in an obviously strong shot, unless it wasn't available.:frus Surely you can understand that, right? I have.

Dr. Bill

You two old dudes are talking about two different threads, two different layouts & two different f@@king pairs of players! Sheesh

http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=98496&postcount=32

RBL

wincardona · Aug 15, 2012

WillieNilly said:
dr.bill,
its not that i think it was the wrong shot, as evident , its was a completely viabal shot. i liked the shot if the 8/9 werent potential trouble balls.

as an opponent i think i wouldve been thrilled to see him shot that shot,just moving the lone ball over to his side, as opposed to him moving/ opening a bunch of balls on his side anyway he does it.

we all know even one lone ball on his side can be dangerous and the beggining of the end for his opponent.

he may (just speculating) have not wanted to force the action if he wasnt absoloutly sure of the outcome of such a shot mentioned by myself and some of our brethren.

He did pick the" highest percentage to execute well shot" available.

best reguards and respect, WN.

P.S. Your a doctor, could you reccomend me a new dentist?....mine seems to have a drinking problem.

Willy, your not giving Shane the credit that he has earned by saying that he should of tried to open up the balls on his side of the table,:sorry don't you think he understands at least that much.:frus There obviously wasn't anything close to a natural way to do it, or he would of, trust me, i'm a doctor. Playing shots from the computer is enjoyable, especially when we know pretty much what a good shot is, even if it isn't available.:lol I think that we would learn more when watching a champion play if we tried to figure out why he chose certain options, as opposed to not playing obvious ones, don't you think?

wincardona · Aug 15, 2012

Cowboy Dennis said:
You two old dudes are talking about two different threads, two different layouts & two different f@@king pairs of players! Sheesh

http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=98496&postcount=32

RBL

Are you trying to say that Freddie has made the mistake of quoting me on a shot that was in another thread? Didn't he already do that and I explained to him why i said what i said at the time? I think I did, if i'm not mistaken.

Dr. Bill

Cowboy Dennis · Aug 15, 2012

fred bentivegna said:
You should have by now noticed that SJD is now conspicuous by his absence. Me agreeing with his shot choice has put him into a paranoiac quandary. He needs to learn how to "evolve" like Incardona who somehow justified his knock of one of my shot choices after he and Jim Rempe had on tape, already endorsed the same shot.

Beard

wincardona said:
Are you trying to say that Freddie has made the mistake of quoting me on a shot that was in another thread? Didn't he already do that and I explained to him why i said what i said at the time? I think I did, if i'm not mistaken.

Dr. Bill

Actually Bill, Freddy knows exactly what he is writing here, maybe you have misinterpreted it

. I'm sure he'll correct you in the morning

.

You were busy traveling to New Jersey after all. By the way, I'm waiting for a trip report from you. Did you meet any goodlooking girls while you were there?

http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6994

Dennis

wincardona · Aug 15, 2012

Cowboy Dennis said:
Actually Bill, Freddy knows exactly what he is writing here, maybe you have misinterpreted it. I'm sure he'll correct you in the morning.

You were busy traveling to New Jersey after all. By the way, I'm waiting for a trip report from you. Did you meet any goodlooking girls while you were there?

http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6994

Dennis

You're confusing me again, aren't we on the Shane Gentile thread? Isn't Freddie quoting me on the Daulton thread? Am I missing something? I was commenting on the shot that Shane had chosen and freddie quoted me on a shot in the Daulton thread when he said that Rempe agreed with my choice of drawing the ball under the ball near the rail in front of his opponents pocket.

Dr. Bill

Cowboy Dennis · Aug 15, 2012

fred bentivegna said:
You should have by now noticed that SJD is now conspicuous by his absence. Me agreeing with his shot choice has put him into a paranoiac quandary. He needs to learn how to "evolve" like Incardona who somehow justified his knock of one of my shot choices after he and Jim Rempe had on tape, already endorsed the same shot.

Beard

wincardona said:
You're confusing me again, aren't we on the Shane Gentile thread? Isn't Freddie quoting me on the Daulton thread? Am I missing something? I was commenting on the shot that Shane had chosen and freddie quoted me on a shot in the Daulton thread when he said that Rempe agreed with my choice of drawing the ball under the ball near the rail in front of his opponents pocket.

Dr. Bill

Yes Bill, we are on the SVB/Gentile thread. Yes Freddy is quoting you on the Tang Hoa/Shannon Daulton thread. Yes Bill, you are missing something.

This really takes all the fun out of it but here goes: Freddy is insulting SJD by saying that he needs to "evolve" the way you did by agreeing with his shot choice in the Hoa/Daulton thread, even though it was 14 years earlier that you "agreed". He's also tossing a barb your way but as long as you don't know it I guess it doesn't really matter.

Anyway, trip report time. Did you and Danny D. go out to breakfast with any goodlooking girls while you were in Jersey??? Inquiring minds want to know details

.

RBL

WillieNilly · Aug 15, 2012

"there OBVIOUSLY wasnt anything close to a natural way to do it , or he would of. trust me im a doctor"

dr.b. , i do trust you.
to me , from my laptop , viewing the shot in question ,from that perspective ,looked like something could be done.
I (and maybe a few others) OBVIOUSLY missed the fact that ,in reality ....there wasnt anything of the sort to be. :sorry
i do know that shane ...or ANY good player,wouldn't have passed up such an opportunity ,had it been available ....... especially with BIH!
I think that for a guy like myself , at my mediocre one pocket lvl., to even want to play a shot like that, shows tactical improvement and understanding of the game, and that i am paying attention to the words and opinions of some of greatest minds in onepocket.
Im here to learn, even if it requires a ruler accros the knuckles once in between pats on the head.
Since my coming here about a year ago my game is up 4 balls, im playin guys who used to give me 9/7 and the break..........even. and winning or breaking even. i attribute that to guys like yourself, who ive watched on tapes and to evry shot youve posted on here and your commentary on matches.
i come here everyday , hoping i catch a new "what would you do" thread and hopeing i got to post my shot selection before guys like you so i get to see if my logic was correct.

i came to this one after the result was posted but had already made up my mind on what I would do (had it been feasible ). i cant and wont take it back .
so dont be frustrated by mine or any other Blvl players ignorance..........to us....some things are not so OBVIOUS.
but next time you come thru philly , if we play, ill shot that shot on ya..................for a fin or sawbuck a game........lol.

so again, mucho respect and best wishes, willy(gettin to big for his britches)nilly

Scrzbill · Aug 15, 2012

P.S. Your a doctor, could you reccomend me a new dentist?....mine seems to have a drinking problem.

You have a dentist that has a drinking problem? You can have my doctor, she has a drug problem, she won't prescribe any good ones!!!:frus:frus:lol

androd · Aug 15, 2012

Yeah, well I'd been getting some balls untied, even if it cost me the game.
I know he's a great player but the 3 rail on the 11 ball was lame. Maybe up and back and hit the stack would've been better.
Rod.

jtompilot · Aug 15, 2012

Hey Willie, I see your from N.E. Penn. I will be flying into N.E. Philly on Sep.13, if your around we could play.

jtompilot · Aug 16, 2012

I'm finally home and set up the shot. My first attempt I made the 3rail on the 11, but I didnt care where the qb went. When I tried to put the qb where shane did I hung the 11 once, but mostly butchared the shot.

The only way for me to hook behind the 11 was to come accross the 5 like the Beard said. And it was a total lock up, but didnt open any balls up. Coming from the left I opened balls up but never got behind the 11 and also scratched a few times.

From where shane left the balls I did bank the 3 in and left the qb up table.
Shane just hit it bad trying to do too much, but if the 11 went in the 3 made a nice break shot.

What worked best for me was to thin the 5 with inside, open the balls up and put the qb up table.

Very good stuff to work on

gentile/svb game 4 #2

jtompilot

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