Tough Shot Choice

One Pocket Ghost

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Ok, since people have been reviving old threads, and other people want to see more wei table shot choices, here's a game situation that I posted about 2 year ago.....The guys that were here back then probably will remember the thread, but it's a good shot choice discussion for you newer guys....Here you go >>>


Here's a situation that came up for me the other day in a game - I've had this same situation come up other times too, and it's a simple, but interesting example of a tough one pocket shot decision.....It's my shot, the top pocket is mine, I need both balls and my customer...uuh, I mean my opponent :D needs one.......My decision is whether to pocket the sure-thing 12 ball and then play a safety (the 5 ball is frozen on the rail - there's too much angle to hold the cue ball for a bank on the 5 ball with my next shot - that was the situation when I had this shot, regardless of how it looks to you here on the wei-table - make your choice on this basis), settling for playing it out from there with the score tied 7 to 7......Or, pass on making the 12 and being on the hill, and instead gambling to get out right there by shooting the 5 ball two-rail bank, which is laying just about straight on, hoping to make it and then shoot the 12 ball in for the win - If I choose this option, I would shoot the 5 at pocket speed and draw back a little and try to snooker my opponent behind the 12 ball in the event that I miss the 5..... Assume the pockets are average size - 4-1/2", and you are playing someone that you play about even with - what's your choice >>>

- Ghost


PS, Last time I put this thread up, the replies were about 50/50 between the two shot choices.

PPS, Forgot to say...I hit multi-rail banks well, and I love these 2-railers - and I like the very likely snooker result if I miss the 2-railer shooting at pocket speed...all that said, my choice here was/is definitely to 2-rail the 5.
 
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lll

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i would 2 rail the 5 leave the q straight on the 12. is there any other shot a reasonable player would shoot? i do see the argument make the 12 when you have the chance and fight for the last ball. since i think the 2 rail on the 5 is makeable i would shoot that. dick who has other things on his mind if you are lurking for deversion to your current life situation which shot would you get out of the electric chair to shoot?
 

lll

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the more i thought about it i decidede a bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush, i shoot the 12 and play for the last ball
 

SJDinPHX

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lll said:
i would 2 rail the 5 leave the q straight on the 12. is there any other shot a reasonable player would shoot? i do see the argument make the 12 when you have the chance and fight for the last ball. since i think the 2 rail on the 5 is makeable i would shoot that. dick who has other things on his mind if you are lurking for deversion to your current life situation which shot would you get out of the electric chair to shoot?



lll,

This looks like an excellent spot for a hi-jack, as Ghrost's WEI problems, are really quite boring. :rolleyes:

Did you hear the one about the two Iranian's, who walked into a bar, and said...WTFA ????..:D :D :D






PS... llll, You chose the exact right shot the first time. Even the YMCA guy's would 2-rail the 5 ball. Which means nobody from Chicago, will agree with you.
 
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Artie Bodendorfer

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One Pocket Ghost said:
Ok, since people have been reviving old threads, and other people want to see more wei table shot choices, here's a game situation that I posted about 2 year ago.....The guys that were here back then probably will remember the thread, but it's a good shot choice discussion for you newer guys....Here you go >>>


Here's a situation that came up for me the other day in a game - I've had this same situation come up other times too, and it's a simple, but interesting example of a tough one pocket shot decision.....It's my shot, the top pocket is mine, I need both balls and my customer...ah, I mean opponent :D needs one - the pockets are average size - 4-1/2".......My decision is whether to pocket the sure-thing 12 ball and then play a safety (there's too much angle to hold the cue ball for a bank on the 5 ball with my next shot - the 5 ball is frozen on the rail), settling for playing it out from there with the score tied 7 to 7......Or, pass on making the 12 and being on the hill, and instead gambling to get out right there by shooting the 5 ball two-rail bank, which is laying just about straight on, hoping to make it and then shoot the 12 ball in for the win - If I choose this option, I would shoot the 5 at pocket speed and draw back a little and try to snooker my opponent behind the 12 ball in the event that I miss the 5.....What's your choice >>>


[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2ESrj2LYcm2Pacf@[/CUETABLE]


- Ghost
I would shoot the 12 ball and bring the cue ball accross the table and bank the 5 ball in the same pocket. And you have the angle to do this.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
I would shoot the 12 ball and bring the cue ball accross the table and bank the 5 ball in the same pocket. And you have the angle to do this.



You could try that, but you don't have much angle and you would have to drill it in very hard to get back across table....This could easily cause you to miss the 12 ball....A curious choice of shots for a 'mover' to choose - not a 'shooter'.....Also interesting because when I posted this shot choice two years ago, Freddy said that this situation was a perfect example to give, of he and Artie's One Pocket strategy/philosophy, meaning, he then said, that he and Artie would shoot the 2-railer in a heartbeat....:eek:...:confused:...:rolleyes:...:D


- Ghost
 
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Artie Bodendorfer

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One Pocket Ghost said:
You could try that, but you don't have much angle and you would have to drill it in very hard to get back across table....This could cause you to miss the 12 ball....A curious choice of shots for a 'mover' to choose - not a 'shooter'.....Also interesting because when I posted this shot choice two yeas ago, Freddy said that this situation was a perfect example to give of he and Artie's One Pocket strategy/philosophy, meaning, he then said, that he and Artie would shoot the 2-railer in a heartbeat....:eek:...:confused:...:rolleyes:...:D


- Ghost
In the shot the said you could not hold the cue ball thier for a bank so that means that you can come accross the table. What people think and what I would do are two different things. And if you have a decent shot to win the game then you shoot to win.Thier is nothing wrong with the two railer its a good shot. And you can leave your opponent in a real bad trap. but you are sacraficing a free ball. But the two rail shot is the easeast to control. But the twelve ball is not a hard shot. and you use a little extra power to come accross the table. For a weaker player I would definetly say shoot the two rail shot. And if I had to make a bet I would say its easier making both balls by shooting the two rail shot first. I make the two railer a 6 to5 favorite to make both balls over shooting it the other way. And the safest shot is the two railer. And the way I said it the worst the score will be 7 to 7. And if you dont make the two railer the score is still 7 to 6. But the two rail shot is very strong shot and it mite be the best shot. Its a very tough choice. I mite shot the two rail shot because the damage it will do to the opponent. But this is a players choice. If I think about it long enough I think I would shoot the two rail shot first.
 

beatle

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if i am sure i could hook him when i miss the two rail i would shoot that. but with the balls where they are it isnt the easiest to hide him and you may go back to a three to one dog or more to win. while giving up the easy shot and being even money or much better. so i take the hanger and bank the five if i get in the right spot or put it where i want it to be.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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beatle said:
if i am sure i could hook him when i miss the two rail i would shoot that. but with the balls where they are it isnt the easiest to hide him and you may go back to a three to one dog or more to win. while giving up the easy shot and being even money or much better. so i take the hanger and bank the five if i get in the right spot or put it where i want it to be.
The two rail shot is a good shot and even if you miss you are no more then a 3 to two dog because off the position of the balls. And before you shoot I make the shooter the favorite in the game.
 

beatle

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of course the shooter is the favorite in the game. but only if he shoots the 12 ball which is a gimme.

if he shoots the two rail bank his chances of winning all depend on how well he hits that shot, and if he misses where he leaves it. the big kick for the shooter of the two rail is the times he makes it. how often you can make it will determine whether that is the best shot.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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beatle said:
of course the shooter is the favorite in the game. but only if he shoots the 12 ball which is a gimme.

if he shoots the two rail bank his chances of winning all depend on how well he hits that shot, and if he misses where he leaves it. the big kick for the shooter of the two rail is the times he makes it. how often you can make it will determine whether that is the best shot.
If he makes the two rail bank is the shooter a 3 to 1 favorite. What if the 5 ball hangs in the pocket or were you cant hit it wit the cue ball he is still the favorite. Thats why I said make the 12 ball come across the table to bank the 5 ball and you are a 7to 5 favorite at least if you get a bank to win the game on the 5 ball.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
If he makes the two rail bank is the shooter a 3 to 1 favorite. What if the 5 ball hangs in the pocket or were you cant hit it wit the cue ball he is still the favorite. Thats why I said make the 12 ball come across the table to bank the 5 ball and you are a 7to 5 favorite at least if you get a bank to win the game on the 5 ball.
Her is the key If you make the two rail bank you become a 10 to 1 favorite to win the game.
 

androd

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Choice

Choice

One thing nobody mentioned, if you don't make the bank, your opponent may be forced to shoot at the 12 ball, or if the 5 ball gets on the head rail, he may want to shoot it. I'm a little conservative here I'm trying to get in the one hole and see what kind of shot I have next.
Rod.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
Her is the key If you make the two rail bank you become a 10 to 1 favorite to win the game.
If you make the twp rail bank you become a automatick winner. Wher if you make the twelve ball you are only a little favorite or a even money shot. Were if he makes the two rail bank he becomes a 40 to one favorite. If he makes the 5 ball he is a forty to one favorite to win. If he makes the 12 ball you are only a even money to win the game. And if I layed you 3 to one on the money to get out witch shot would you shot. You would not take 3 to 1 that you would make the twelve and bank the 5 ball would you . Iwould not take 3 to 1 and bet I make the 12 ball and then the 5 ball. But I would take 3 to one that I make the 5 ball and 12 ball. Do you see know witch is the better bet. I dont think you would give me 3 to1 that I run out banking the 5 ball first. All you are doing is laying 3 to 1 that I dont bank the 5 ball two rails. I hope you understand the odds I am showeing you. If not I will bet on it. you can get 3 to one on you shooting the 12 ball first. And I will get 3 to1 backing the 5 ball two rails. I hope you can see it if you dont I dont no what to tell you.
 

Skin

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[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2ESrj2LYcm2Pacf@[/CUETABLE]

It looks to me like the 12 is far enough off the cushion (1/2 of a ball diameter) that it cuts into his pocket. If I play the 5 two rails with position for the 12, then if I don't make the 5 he has a cut into his pocket for the win. So, I'm not doing that.

I'm just going to cinch the 12, slide over near the opposite cushion and maybe try to three-rail the 5 (missing the side pocket is very close) or play safe.

Skin
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Skin said:
It looks to me like the 12 is far enough off the cushion (1/2 of a ball diameter) that it cuts into his pocket. If I play the 5 two rails with position for the 12, then if I don't make the 5 he has a cut into his pocket for the win. So, I'm not doing that.

I'm just going to cinch the 12, slide over near the opposite cushion and maybe try to three-rail the 5 (missing the side pocket is very close) or play safe.

Skin
Her is one more factor if you are playing a better player Like Bruce playing Efren for the championship. I would tell bruce to go for the win and bank the 5 ball two rails we dont want efren shooting any more. Finish him off all these factors come into play.
 

desert1pocket

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I think the two rail 5 is generally the better shot. The exception for me would be if my opponent is an agressive player that I know I can outmove in the endgame. In that case I'd rather fight over the last ball than leave him a cut to win on the 12.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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desert1pocket said:
I think the two rail 5 is generally the better shot. The exception for me would be if my opponent is an agressive player that I know I can outmove in the endgame. In that case I'd rather fight over the last ball than leave him a cut to win on the 12.
You keep the cue ball on the other side of the 12 ball. And I hope he shoots at a seel out shot and if he misses I will get two balls that yousing your head. Thats whaty I calll stratagy to loose.
 

blackeee

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One Pocket Ghost said:
Ok, since people have been reviving old threads, and other people want to see more wei table shot choices, here's a game situation that I posted about 2 year ago.....The guys that were here back then probably will remember the thread, but it's a good shot choice discussion for you newer guys....Here you go >>>


Here's a situation that came up for me the other day in a game - I've had this same situation come up other times too, and it's a simple, but interesting example of a tough one pocket shot decision.....It's my shot, the top pocket is mine, I need both balls and my customer...ah, I mean opponent :D needs one.......My decision is whether to pocket the sure-thing 12 ball and then play a safety (there's too much angle to hold the cue ball for a bank on the 5 ball with my next shot - the 5 ball is frozen on the rail), settling for playing it out from there with the score tied 7 to 7......Or, pass on making the 12 and being on the hill, and instead gambling to get out right there by shooting the 5 ball two-rail bank, which is laying just about straight on, hoping to make it and then shoot the 12 ball in for the win - If I choose this option, I would shoot the 5 at pocket speed and draw back a little and try to snooker my opponent behind the 12 ball in the event that I miss the 5..... Assume the pockets are average size - 4-1/2", and you are playing someone that you play about even with - what's your choice >>>


[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2ESrj2LYcm2Pacf@[/CUETABLE]


- Ghost


PS, Last time I put this thread up, the replies were about 50/50 between the two shot choices.

I'd shoot the 5.
 

wincardona

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desert1pocket said:
I think the two rail 5 is generally the better shot. The exception for me would be if my opponent is an agressive player that I know I can outmove in the endgame. In that case I'd rather fight over the last ball than leave him a cut to win on the 12.

I also like the 5 ball 2 railer, but you made an excellent point, which I agree with when you said that if you can outmove your opponent in the end game, than your choice would be the 12 ball.
 
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