scratches don't count

deerhunter

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A player the other day asked me to spot him that his scratches don't count. I play the guy 10-7 and win. I don't know where he came up with this spot.
How much is scratches don't count worth?
 

androd

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deerhunter said:
A player the other day asked me to spot him that his scratches don't count. I play the guy 10-7 and win. I don't know where he came up with this spot.
How much is scratches don't count worth?

Much less than 10-7
Rod. < played a lot of this game.
 

beatle

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depends on the players of course but the accepted rule back when it was played alot was worth about two balls. adjust from there on how you and he both play and can use or defend against it.
 

Skin

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androd said:
Much less than 10-7
Rod. < played a lot of this game.

Rod, I am not familiar with this spot (not surprising, eh?). Is it just pocket / off-the-table scratches or does it include all fouls? If it includes all fouls, I would think a guy could potentially make a killer out of a lamb giving it out.

Skin
 

SJDinPHX

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Skin said:
Rod, I am not familiar with this spot (not surprising, eh?). Is it just pocket / off-the-table scratches or does it include all fouls? If it includes all fouls, I would think a guy could potentially make a killer out of a lamb giving it out.

Skin

Skin,

Poor fella, if you accept this game, from a guy who can easily give you 2-3 balls...trust me...you will not like it. (if it sounds to good to be true..etc.)

I say this only because none of my old buddies (or anybody else for that matter) are running up and down the road any more...otherwise,...I'd be a knocker. :eek:

PS..You can knock the ball on the next table...still "no foul".
 
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Skin

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SJDinPHX said:
Skin,

Poor fella, if you accept this game, from a guy who can easily give you 2-3 balls...trust me...you will not like it. (if it sounds to good to be true..etc.)

I say this only because none of my old buddies (or anybody else for that matter) are running up and down the road any more...otherwise,...I'd be a knocker. :eek:

PS..You can knock the ball on the next table...still "no foul".

Dick, how can a guy ever lock you up if your fouls don't count? I'm not disputing what you're saying. I'm just seeing the spot as handing over an unbeatable defense to the other guy if he knows how to play a little and can be patient. Of course, the guy getting the spot still has to shoot sometime. :)

Skin
 
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androd

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Skin said:
Rod, I am not familiar with this spot (not surprising, eh?). Is it just pocket / off-the-table scratches or does it include all fouls? If it includes all fouls, I would think a guy could potentially make a killer out of a lamb giving it out.

Skin
Skin, It's however you make the game, I always tried to give all intentional fouls a free pass and if the CB went in the hole, they put one up. It really doesn't matter! I was looking for a little edge. LOL. You can roll under the balls all day and you still haven't moved one away from my pocket. Some people play better at end game than others with this spot, but it ain't much.( it usually doesn't get to end game) Beatle said 2 balls, I always thought about 1ball &1/2, If you match this up try to get the break, as I said, they can't move'em ducking under'em.
Rod.
 

Skin

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androd said:
Skin, It's however you make the game, I always tried to give all intentional fouls a free pass and if the CB went in the hole, they put one up. It really doesn't matter! I was looking for a little edge. LOL. You can roll under the balls all day and you still haven't moved one away from my pocket. Some people play better at end game than others with this spot, but it ain't much.( it usually doesn't get to end game) Beatle said 2 balls, I always thought about 1ball &1/2, If you match this up try to get the break, as I said, they can't move'em ducking under'em.
Rod.

Well, I might try that spot out for grins when I get a chance, Rod. But first I have to find a guy I can give 2 balls to. :rolleyes:

Skin
 

newfosgatesucks

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No cueball fouls

No cueball fouls

At the end of the game you can checkmate him with a ball in your pocket. Thats to YOUR advantage.....

If the guy is real conservative, and moves good, it's worth every bit of 10-6. You will get tired of bein stuck to the stack every shot. Your New home is there, and your vacation resort is froze to the top rail on/by/behind a ball.

If he's a strong player, decent mover, good shotmaker, it's worth less, maybe 10-8. And wont come up every game, either. But a "€Scared to shoot" guy can be a TOTAL PAIN to play this way.....

If your level of play is high enough, say 10-6 beneath professional or better, the spot aint worth the full 10-7 your playin at, just be patient youll rob him....



deerhunter said:
A player the other day asked me to spot him that his scratches don't count. I play the guy 10-7 and win. I don't know where he came up with this spot.
How much is scratches don't count worth?
 

androd

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newfosgatesucks said:
At the end of the game you can checkmate him with a ball in your pocket. Thats to YOUR advantage.....

If the guy is real conservative, and moves good, it's worth every bit of 10-6. You will get tired of bein stuck to the stack every shot. Your New home is there, and your vacation resort is froze to the top rail on/by/behind a ball.....

He still hasn't made a ball.
PS, Worth every bit of 10-6 ?

newfosgatesucks said:
If he's a strong player, decent mover, good shotmaker, it's worth less, maybe 10-8. And wont come up every game, either. But a "€Scared to shoot" guy can be a TOTAL PAIN to play this way.....

If your level of play is high enough, say 10-6 beneath professional or better, the spot aint worth the full 10-7 your playin at, just be patient youll rob him....

newfosgatesucks said:
I was wrecked on pain medicine when I wrote that the other day, ....



newfosgate, you really have a terrible time making yourself understood.
Rod. < or maybe it's just me ?
PS, Hope you get some relief.
 
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SJDinPHX

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newfosgatesucks said:
At the end of the game you can checkmate him with a ball in your pocket. Thats to YOUR advantage.....

If the guy is real conservative, and moves good, it's worth every bit of 10-6. You will get tired of bein stuck to the stack every shot. Your New home is there, and your vacation resort is froze to the top rail on/by/behind a ball.

If he's a strong player, decent mover, good shotmaker, it's worth less, maybe 10-8. And wont come up every game, either. But a "€Scared to shoot" guy can be a TOTAL PAIN to play this way.....

If your level of play is high enough, say 10-6 beneath professional or better, the spot aint worth the full 10-7 your playin at, just be patient youll rob him....

NFGS

You are exactly the type of thinker we used to look for...:eek: The weaker player, will never "rob" the better player at that game... if the better player knows how to play it. :D (it don't really matter how smart the weaker player is)

But you are right, if you CAN'T give the guy 10-6, its real a tough game for the AAA player. :cool:
 
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One Pocket Ghost

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The value of this spot is variable....entirely dependent on how smart, and how experienced, both the spotter, and the spottee are at playing this game.


- Ghost
 

newfosgatesucks

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...???,,,...?

...???,,,...?

I said if he played "giving up" the no fouls, he would rob the guy he gave it to...Favoring the Spotter, not the Spottee....Assuming he could already give up 10-7 easily. Id RATHER give no fouls than 10-7. The weaker player has to make more!!! :) I have to make less!!!:D

I was just trying to be specific as to the things the potential Spotter would consider before spotting the Spottee....Never ever ever ever said it favored the weaker player....

Really though, Imagine anybody trying to play Artie and giving up no fouls- whats THAT worth? A chicago guy will make more of the spot that a west coast guy. Now imagine givin it to Frosty-He'd Probably never use it!


SJDinPHX said:
NFGS You are exactly the type of thinker we used to look for...:eek: The weaker player, will never "rob" the better player at that game... if the better player knows how to play it. :D

But you are right, if you CAN'T give the guy 10-6, its real a tough game for the AAA player. :cool:
 

newfosgatesucks

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Rod, to clarify what I meant, if the Original Poster here is good enough to play a touring pro GETTING 10-6 or 10-7 and WIN, then someone he can routinely GIVE 10-7 to +Beat, WILL be getting beat WORSE.

I made an assumption that someone who never heard of this proposition, and asked here, would be a few balls under pro at least. Thats why my answer was kinda geared towards a weaker than pro player. At the pro level I doubt it's worth a ball. Which I'll never know cuz I suck.:eek: And need 10-6.:mad: And my fouls don't count.:D
 

SJDinPHX

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One Pocket Ghost said:
The value of this spot is variable....entirely dependent on how smart, and how experienced, both the spotter, and the spottee are at playing this game.


- Ghost

Ghosty,

Maybe you have never given up this game. Trust me, its stronger, (for the better player) than giving up a "hit and a pick" (or maybe two picks) I don't care if I'm playing Einstein...If I can give him 10 or 11 to 8, or better, he can't win "the his scratches don't count" game.
Warning----If he's real smart...he may s--t out once every 6-8 games.

Sometimes it sounds so good to the weaker player,.. you can get them to spot you a few balls....sweeeeet !) :D

PS..the way I play now...I would not play Scott Frost, 11-7, my scratches don't count...and I KNOW the game.
 
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Cowboy Dennis

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deerhunter said:
A player the other day asked me to spot him that his scratches don't count. I play the guy 10-7 and win. I don't know where he came up with this spot.
How much is scratches don't count worth?


deerhunter,

If you ever give up this game to the guy for any reason, make certain there is a rule in place concerning him hitting object balls (accidently of course) with his cue. The weaker player has sometimes been know to "rake" a whole slew of balls towards his pocket on a shot with this game.

Dennis
 

beatle

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look, what happens as the weaker player, he still would find that most times it is still better to hit a ball offensively or towards something than to roll it up table or behind a ball if he could even get it there. so when he does take a scratch and roll the ball someplace it doesnt really do much. ive played it alot from both sides and many games you dont even get to take one of your scratches. and these are not games where the balls are run out.
but against not very good players where shots are traded back and forth one can get a decent edge by playing it right getting the SDC side of it. the biggest benefit comes to bad movers who can now put you in some tougher spots. but then they dont get to put in offensive moves that crush you.
basically if the good player is one that can run out every so often then it is worth one to one/half balls. against two more equal average players that trade shots more like two balls.
on the 5by 10s it was worth more or less on how well someone could shoot long shots. and mostly that game came about from playing on 5 by 10s where weaker players were looking for ways to get out of having to shoot long shots up table. this way they could just roll the cue ball along the short rail up table and leave a long poke.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Skin said:
Well, I might try that spot out for grins when I get a chance, Rod. But first I have to find a guy I can give 2 balls to. :rolleyes:

Skin


Skin,

I've never given this game up but not for lack of trying. Let me give you an example of how much (or how little) weight it is.

Take the game I give to the guy I work with. 6 or-no-count and he goes to 3. The only time he has ever run 3 balls was the last time we played. He did it twice. That's his speed. He also fouls once or twice a game, most games. And I also coach him to help him learn the game. It's just a mostly fun game but we both try to win for our money. I obviously have the edge in the game if I can coach him and still win most times.

Now let's change the game to his fouls don't count. He now has to make 8 balls to my 8. That ain't happening, ever.

I would have to play him 8-3 or 8-4 and his fouls don't count to make the game close. And I'd still win.

Dennis
 

Skin

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Skin,

I've never given this game up but not for lack of trying. Let me give you an example of how much (or how little) weight it is.

Take the game I give to the guy I work with. 6 or-no-count and he goes to 3. The only time he has ever run 3 balls was the last time we played. He did it twice. That's his speed. He also fouls once or twice a game, most games. And I also coach him to help him learn the game. It's just a mostly fun game but we both try to win for our money. I obviously have the edge in the game if I can coach him and still win most times.

Now let's change the game to his fouls don't count. He now has to make 8 balls to my 8. That ain't happening, ever.

I would have to play him 8-3 or 8-4 and his fouls don't count to make the game close. And I'd still win.

Dennis

Well, if you take away ob fouls (like you advised above) where he can just roll a ball from your hole over to his and leave the cb where you stuck him...

JK. I'm starting to get the picture on this spot. If the spot-ee can't run many and is going to play a halfway "honest" game, he's got no chance. Sure sounds he has the nuts if you don't know better, though.

Skin
 
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