The Break

LSJohn

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One of my objectives has always been to freeze the CB to the third diamond. Recently I've noticed that the better players aren't going that high, and when they do, their opponent sometimes finds a ball near the top of the stack to bank toward the lower end and stick in the stack. This response isn't possible if the CB is left lower, no higher than 2nd d.

However, the lower the CB, the more productive possibilities there are at the lower end.

So, how high do you want your CB on the break?
 

cincy_kid

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Good post John and I look forward to seeing some of the responses. For my 2 cents, I try to get it between the 2nd and 3rd diamond as close to the rail as I can. I think that's what Tom Wirth says in his book too as his objective but maybe that has changed since he published it.

You know, really, one of these days someone is going to perfect the break where it leaves the CB froze on the stack. That's one helluva break if you don't sell out any balls in the process!
 

beatle

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you vary a little based on how you hit the shot. but generally 2.5 to 2 3/4 diamonds up.
you should change some based on your opponent and the table. most dont
 

LSJohn

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Maybe it's different for us lessers, but I think the Top Dogs are leaving it lower most of the time. When you watch, see whether you think I'm right.

The head ball is gone, so the top ball near the stack is often lower than 2 1/2, creating the bank and stick angle. (I guess I'm repeating myself. :p )
 

cincy_kid

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Maybe it's different for us lessers, but I think the Top Dogs are leaving it lower most of the time. When you watch, see whether you think I'm right.

The head ball is gone, so the top ball near the stack is often lower than 2 1/2, creating the bank and stick angle. (I guess I'm repeating myself. :p )

I did notice that in one of the tourneys I was watching (I think it was the US Open this year) where they were lower but if I recall correctly I thought it had to do more with the table not being as fast or them just hitting a bad break, I did not think it was intentional...ICBW
 

Jeff sparks

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Two ways to stack the CB...
Roll on the head ball or kick into the stack from the opposite side...

The former is super passive but also safe of sell outs, while the latter mostly depends on local conditions as to the effectiveness of it...I like it in high humidity conditions with a dirty table and dirty balls.. Under those conditions the kick works really well...

The conventional break between the head and 2nd balls is the most effective when executed perfectly, which is not often, by anyone... One of the best old school players ( Jersey Red ) liked the CB froze between the 2nd and 3rd diamonds... Seems not much has changed regarding that...

I play a guy named Bob here in Houston, and he's a lefty... They are a different breed you know... Lefties are special... Anyway this guy breaks better than anyone I have ever played, and he breaks between the 2nd and the 3rd balls..
He rarely ever sells out the corner ball and he almost always gets really good distribution to his side both high and low... He usually freezes me just above the 2nd diamond.. He has tried numerous times to show me how he hits it, but alas, I'm not left handed and it hardly ever works for me..:)
 

jalapus logan

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I play a guy named Bob here in Houston, and he's a lefty... They are a different breed you know... Lefties are special... Anyway this guy breaks better than anyone I have ever played, and he breaks between the 2nd and the 3rd balls..
He rarely ever sells out the corner ball and he almost always gets really good distribution to his side both high and low... He usually freezes me just above the 2nd diamond.. He has tried numerous times to show me how he hits it, but alas, I'm not left handed and it hardly ever works for me..:)[/QUOTE]

I'm a lefty, so I'm gonna give this a go.
 

youngstown

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The Break

Two ways to stack the CB...

Roll on the head ball or kick into the stack from the opposite side...



The former is super passive but also safe of sell outs..:)



I've had a hard time recently with the break constantly selling out the corner ball, so last night when I was playing I decided I was gonna slow roll and freeze it on the head ball and try to get the speed of my corner ball going towards my pocket. I had practiced it a couple times the night before to try to get the speed down. I didn't even know if it was allowed so I had to ask my opponent how many balls had to hit the rail.

So then my opponent (who's not one to ever be outdone) decides he's going to do a different break (since I did a different break). This is one that I've never seen... cue ball took a similar path similar to when you break in straight pool but i'm not really sure what ball in the stack he contacted... but he ended up corner hooking me in his top corner. :/
 

youngstown

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The Break

I play a guy named Bob here in Houston, and he's a lefty... They are a different breed you know... Lefties are special... Anyway this guy breaks better than anyone I have ever played, and he breaks between the 2nd and the 3rd balls..

He rarely ever sells out the corner ball and he almost always gets really good distribution to his side both high and low... He usually freezes me just above the 2nd diamond.. He has tried numerous times to show me how he hits it, but alas, I'm not left handed and it hardly ever works for me..:)

I like this. A lot. Thanks!
 

kollegedave

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CB Position After the Break

CB Position After the Break

As usual, Jon comes up with some interesting stuff.

I agree with your observation as a general principle. That is to say, I do think better players (these days) wind up with a lower cue ball position after the break.

However, I do not think it is because they want the cue ball at that position. I think (I do believe with some inside info.) that better players are more concerned with developing object ball position after the break, and they don't care (as much) where the CB goes, provided they put their opponent in a trap -i -oca.

I was talking to Justin Bergman about this, as I noticed him breaking with a drag draw shot as opposed to the traditional high inside. He explained that in his set against Jeremy Jones, Jones used this break and it gave him and Danny Smith fits. When executed by these guys, the CB freezes at the second ish diamond--give or take. However, the big benefit that Justin saw out of this was that it, fairly reliably, placed an object ball high and low around the pocket.

kollegedave
 

gulfportdoc

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As usual, Jon comes up with some interesting stuff.

I agree with your observation as a general principle. That is to say, I do think better players (these days) wind up with a lower cue ball position after the break.

However, I do not think it is because they want the cue ball at that position. I think (I do believe with some inside info.) that better players are more concerned with developing object ball position after the break, and they don't care (as much) where the CB goes, provided they put their opponent in a trap -i -oca.

I was talking to Justin Bergman about this, as I noticed him breaking with a drag draw shot as opposed to the traditional high inside. He explained that in his set against Jeremy Jones, Jones used this break and it gave him and Danny Smith fits. When executed by these guys, the CB freezes at the second ish diamond--give or take. However, the big benefit that Justin saw out of this was that it, fairly reliably, placed an object ball high and low around the pocket.

kollegedave
Dave, just to clarify, by drag/draw shot, do you mean a stun, or a draw shot? And do they hit it in the same "pocket" spot as in the traditional break?

Thanks,
~Doc
 

jrhendy

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The break on the Simonis Tournament Blue cloth used on most of the rooms I play at here requires a much more delicate break. Problem with that is it is easier to kiss and scratch. I use center ball to make a good hit and rest between the first and second diamond, almost never getting the cue ball on the rail.

This usually gets a ball near my hole and does not leave a return bank. On the old heavier cloth you could load up, hit it fairly hard and really spread the balls. You do that now and the balls come up too high on the equipment I play on.
 

LSJohn

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monett missouri
As usual, Jon comes up with some interesting stuff.

I agree with your observation as a general principle. That is to say, I do think better players (these days) wind up with a lower cue ball position after the break.

However, I do not think it is because they want the cue ball at that position. I think (I do believe with some inside info.) that better players are more concerned with developing object ball position after the break, and they don't care (as much) where the CB goes, provided they put their opponent in a trap -i -oca.

I was talking to Justin Bergman about this, as I noticed him breaking with a drag draw shot as opposed to the traditional high inside. He explained that in his set against Jeremy Jones, Jones used this break and it gave him and Danny Smith fits. When executed by these guys, the CB freezes at the second ish diamond--give or take. However, the big benefit that Justin saw out of this was that it, fairly reliably, placed an object ball high and low around the pocket.

kollegedave

Jeremy Jones.

That dude seems to be a step ahead a lot of the time. :)

Thanks Dave
 

lll

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vero beach fl
As usual, Jon comes up with some interesting stuff.

I agree with your observation as a general principle. That is to say, I do think better players (these days) wind up with a lower cue ball position after the break.

However, I do not think it is because they want the cue ball at that position. I think (I do believe with some inside info.) that better players are more concerned with developing object ball position after the break, and they don't care (as much) where the CB goes, provided they put their opponent in a trap -i -oca.

I was talking to Justin Bergman about this, as I noticed him breaking with a drag draw shot as opposed to the traditional high inside. He explained that in his set against Jeremy Jones, Jones used this break and it gave him and Danny Smith fits. When executed by these guys, the CB freezes at the second ish diamond--give or take. However, the big benefit that Justin saw out of this was that it, fairly reliably, placed an object ball high and low around the pocket.

kollegedave

thanks for the inside info
but i dont understand how a drag draw shot which only means the the cue ball has less speed when it gets to the stack and is rolling forward with no spin
could ensure a ball high and a ball low??:confused:
 

NH Steve

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I heard that Corey Deuel was using that break a while back -- and would not be a bit surprised if he was the one that started the trend. As I heard it described, it's like the conventional break, except soft inside (drag) draw, as opposed to the conventional 10 oclock/2 oclock. That might allow for a slightly firmer break while still keeping the cue ball low?
 

NH Steve

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thanks for the inside info
but i dont understand how a drag draw shot which only means the the cue ball has less speed when it gets to the stack and is rolling forward with no spin
could ensure a ball high and a ball low??:confused:
Not so much a speed thing, but less forward rotation on the cue ball -- because it is sliding a little rather than naturally rolling at the point of contact -- or perhaps more importantly, at the point the cue ball reaches the bottom cushion.

Another effect the drag stroke might have is on the behavior of the balls in the rack because you are hitting with a 'flatter' cue ball -- you know how you get just a touch more 'cling' when you cut a ball with a 'flat' cue ball as opposed to a normal roll. Maybe the balls do open differently because of that.

Corey is damn smart about pool physics -- as is Jeremy Jones no doubt. So no surprise if those two would be coming up with something different.

For me, I need to put more focus on an accurate contact point -- i.e. aim -- and my aim falls off with low inside compared to high inside. So I don't know if that break will ever be for me...
 

lll

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vero beach fl
Not so much a speed thing, but less forward rotation on the cue ball -- because it is sliding a little rather than naturally rolling at the point of contact -- or perhaps more importantly, at the point the cue ball reaches the bottom cushion.

Another effect the drag stroke might have is on the behavior of the balls in the rack because you are hitting with a 'flatter' cue ball -- you know how you get just a touch more 'cling' when you cut a ball with a 'flat' cue ball as opposed to a normal roll. Maybe the balls do open differently because of that.

Corey is damn smart about pool physics -- as is Jeremy Jones no doubt. So no surprise if those two would be coming up with something different.

For me, I need to put more focus on an accurate contact point -- i.e. aim -- and my aim falls off with low inside compared to high inside. So I don't know if that break will ever be for me...
thanks for your perspective steve
 

LSJohn

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monett missouri
Not so much a speed thing, but less forward rotation on the cue ball -- because it is sliding a little rather than naturally rolling at the point of contact -- or perhaps more importantly, at the point the cue ball reaches the bottom cushion.

Another effect the drag stroke might have is on the behavior of the balls in the rack because you are hitting with a 'flatter' cue ball -- you know how you get just a touch more 'cling' when you cut a ball with a 'flat' cue ball as opposed to a normal roll. Maybe the balls do open differently because of that.

Corey is damn smart about pool physics -- as is Jeremy Jones no doubt. So no surprise if those two would be coming up with something different.

For me, I need to put more focus on an accurate contact point -- i.e. aim -- and my aim falls off with low inside compared to high inside. So I don't know if that break will ever be for me...

Excellent.

Thanks
 

bobt64

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Green Valley, AZ
The break on the Simonis Tournament Blue cloth used on most of the rooms I play at here requires a much more delicate break. Problem with that is it is easier to kiss and scratch. I use center ball to make a good hit and rest between the first and second diamond, almost never getting the cue ball on the rail.

I almost exclusively play on tournament blue, have been using high inside with some sucess but will definately try some with center ball, thanks for the tip.
 
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