You vs. Him

Jeff sparks said:

This is what he should have done, he woulda won easily from here, or at least figured to.
I would never ever have taken any chance of breaking up the 2/10 balls unless I was down low near the foot rail and sending them both up table and out of play.

He deserved to lose with that shot selection.

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jeff
why break up the balls on the spot and open up balls now??
just move the three and use the balls on the spot to block the repositioned
3 ball??

lll said:

jeff
why break up the balls on the spot and open up balls now??
just move the three and use the balls on the spot to block the repositioned
3 ball??

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As we saw by the outcome, the balls on the spot are very much in play where they are, especially with players of this caliber.

By shooting the shot I suggested Efren would have forced an up table game I believe, which he should have been able to win handily with the lead he had.

Jeff sparks said:

As we saw by the outcome, the balls on the spot are very much in play where they are, especially with players of this caliber.

By shooting the shot I suggested Efren would have forced an up table game I believe, which he should have been able to win handily with the lead he had.

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jeff
i think we need to agree to disagree on this one
even though you play better than me and have way more experience....
to me you move the 3 which favors your opponent more than you
put it on your side and now he has to deal with it
he might leave you a free shot
now you are on the hill and there are 2 clusters still to deal with.
maybe i am just being stubborn in supporting my original shot selection...

You vs. Him

lll said:

jeff
i think we need to agree to disagree on this one
even though you play better than me and have way more experience....
to me you move the 3 which favors your opponent more than you
put it on your side and now he has to deal with it
he might leave you a free shot
now you are on the hill and there are 2 clusters still to deal with.
maybe i am just being stubborn in supporting my original shot selection...

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Not stubborn Larry. You are correct IMO.

lll said:

jeff
i think we need to agree to disagree on this one
even though you play better than me and have way more experience....
to me you move the 3 which favors your opponent more than you
put it on your side and now he has to deal with it
he might leave you a free shot
now you are on the hill and there are 2 clusters still to deal with.
maybe i am just being stubborn in supporting my original shot selection...

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Larry,
Just for kicks let's get a mediator or two involved here. Dr. Bill and Tom Wirth ok with you?
I contend that placing the CB near the center of the table and coming off the left side of the 6 ball ( as I would be looking at it ) thereby banking the 15 to my side up table past the side pocket and deflecting the 6 over to my side rail while letting the CB drift down to his side rail and bounce over slightly in front of his pocket or freeze on the bottom rail is the proper shot, not only considering the score, but also what it forces the incoming player to do.

You contend that putting the 3 ball on your side is the better shot.

Let's take it to arbitration, I'll abide by their conclusions, and if you're right, when I come to Vero, dinner and drinks are on me.:

lll said:

jeff
why break up the balls on the spot and open up balls now??
just move the three and use the balls on the spot to block the repositioned
3 ball??

Click to expand...

Larry let me give you my opinion on this. those 2 balls above his pocket are, to me, a big threat. while they don't go right now they are very close to his pocket and can easily become his game winning balls. in the next couple of innings if he gets a 1 rail, 2 rail or 3 rail bank you can be sure he would be very happy banking into those balls and now there can be 3 open balls by his pocket. he also may get the opportunity with the right position to gently run the cue ball into the top of these balls moving the bottom ball closer to his pocket and snookering you on the other ball.

my shot as to drive the 3 ball into those 2 balls with the speed to move them up table. of course i would risk leaving a bank but i felt it would be worth the risk at that time. keith

Inquiring minds want to know????? Seeking higher knowledge...... Calling all pros..... Rob... Dr.Bill... Tom.... Rod.... Wayne.... Others?

There have been quite a few options given here, what should Efren have done here?

Jeff sparks said:

Inquiring minds want to know????? Seeking higher knowledge...... Calling all pros..... Rob... Dr.Bill... Tom.... Rod.... Wayne.... Others?

There have been quite a few options given here, what should Efren have done here?

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they can't answer, their boycotting!!!!

sappo said:

they can't answer, their boycotting!!!!

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Yep,
I know Keith, I was trying to trap them....lol
They didn't bite, but I know they wanted to.

Jeff sparks said:

Yep,
I know Keith, I was trying to trap them....lol
They didn't bite, but I know they wanted to.

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Btw,

Your shot is a good option also and would work very well if you banked the 3 into the rail just a fraction below the 10 ball with just a touch harder than medium speed. Looks like that would clear all three balls to your side, with the possible exception of the 10 ball, which might get stuck near where it's at. Larry's shot will work also, I just have trouble seeing his shot as he diagramed it. Looks like if he draws the CB to the side rail then bounces it to the bottom rail from the distance he is shooting from, the 3 ball will be long gone from anywhere near where he shows it stopping. To get the 3 near where he wants it to stop, it looks like he might lose the CB to a higher position above the foot rail.

Jeff, do you think efrin was trying to make the 3 ball and with inside spin bring whitey straight up to the top rail without disturbing those 2 balls maybe he just hit it that bad. keith

sappo said:

Larry let me give you my opinion on this. those 2 balls above his pocket are, to me, a big threat. while they don't go right now they are very close to his pocket and can easily become his game winning balls. in the next couple of innings if he gets a 1 rail, 2 rail or 3 rail bank you can be sure he would be very happy banking into those balls and now there can be 3 open balls by his pocket. he also may get the opportunity with the right position to gently run the cue ball into the top of these balls moving the bottom ball closer to his pocket and snookering you on the other ball.

my shot as to drive the 3 ball into those 2 balls with the speed to move them up table. of course i would risk leaving a bank but i felt it would be worth the risk at that time. keith

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Good stuff Keith. I see I don't think far enough ahead about breaking up balls-that-won't-go near op's pocket.

Thanks.

sappo said:

they can't answer, their boycotting!!!!

Click to expand...

Jeff sparks said:

Yep,
I know Keith, I was trying to trap them....lol
They didn't bite, but I know they wanted to.

Click to expand...

You just keep tryin' 'em Jeff, especially the really old and forgetful one. Here's a mistake he almost made about 24 hours after "The Announcement".

I guess he had 10' table experience to share.

Jeff sparks said:

Btw,

Your shot is a good option also and would work very well if you banked the 3 into the rail just a fraction below the 10 ball with just a touch harder than medium speed. Looks like that would clear all three balls to your side, with the possible exception of the 10 ball, which might get stuck near where it's at. Larry's shot will work also, I just have trouble seeing his shot as he diagramed it. Looks like if he draws the CB to the side rail then bounces it to the bottom rail from the distance he is shooting from, the 3 ball will be long gone from anywhere near where he shows it stopping. To get the 3 near where he wants it to stop, it looks like he might lose the CB to a higher position above the foot rail.

Click to expand...

jeff
the idea behind my shot is to move 3 which is more a threat for him than a helper for me
and try to place it ON MY SIDE and the cue ball where the two balls on the spot will block
it
that could be rolling it and putting the cue ball about a diamond on the long rail above his pocket
the bottom line is i eliminated a threat of his and made it a helper for me
now the only safe place for him is on the foot rail
which THEN helps me move balls up table
why put 3 balls playable (the 2 on the spot which you opened up)(agree in a position that favors you for now)
for him when you need 2 and he needs 4
when you can only let one ball be open the 3???
i know i can be stubborn,,,
p,s, if i make it to texas... dinner and drinks are on me,,,

lll said:

jeff
the idea behind my shot is to move 3 which is more a threat for him than a helper for me
and try to place it ON MY SIDE and the cue ball where the two balls on the spot will block
it
that could be rolling it and putting the cue ball about a diamond on the long rail above his pocket
the bottom line is i eliminated a threat of his and made it a helper for me
now the only safe place for him is on the foot rail
which THEN helps me move balls up table
why put 3 balls playable (the 2 on the spot which you opened up)(agree in a position that favors you for now)
for him when you need 2 and he needs 4
when you can only let one ball be open the 3???
i know i can be stubborn,,,
p,s, if i make it to texas... dinner and drinks are on me,,,

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I'm trying to think of a way to get you to come to Texas for the Senior Classic, I could use a good meal and a stiff drink or two! How about we agree to disagree on this one. Oh, somebody already suggested that a while back.:frus
Thanks Larry, hope you can make the trip.

sappo said:

Larry let me give you my opinion on this. those 2 balls above his pocket are, to me, a big threat. while they don't go right now they are very close to his pocket and can easily become his game winning balls. in the next couple of innings if he gets a 1 rail, 2 rail or 3 rail bank you can be sure he would be very happy banking into those balls and now there can be 3 open balls by his pocket. he also may get the opportunity with the right position to gently run the cue ball into the top of these balls moving the bottom ball closer to his pocket and snookering you on the other ball.

my shot as to drive the 3 ball into those 2 balls with the speed to move them up table. of course i would risk leaving a bank but i felt it would be worth the risk at that time. keith

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keith
thanks for offering your perspective
and i apologize for not responding yesterday
you make very good points but depending how the balls end up
you may leave him a bank
and have now cleared the lanes for banking back to his pocket for him
you have taken away a large area you can play safe to
ie up table on his side below those balls
i see the strength of your shot if it works out well
but i still think i will reposition the 3 ball
a troubled ball for me
which then takes away a large area for safety play for him
what will he do in reponse to my shot
kick at the 3??
come off the second ball on the spot and leave me on the foot rail?
both options might leave me a free bank
his best move would be to break up those 2 balls and leave the 3 alone
in that case i will have the opportunity to move his ball but i still have the 3 on my side which he has to respect
so i still like my shot and i am sticking to it.....
keith if you make it to vero you too get dinner and drinks on me......