Rules question: picking up the balls

Ok, so this came up the other night in the 1p league I run. I was not present at the time so the players made their own decision, then asked me later how I would rule on the situation. While there's not much I can do at that point, I wanted to solicit feedback as I couldn't really find what I thought was a definitive answer anywhere...

The game is nearing the end, with just a few balls left on the table. Player A is on a run and makes what he believes is his final shot, looks around the table and sees there are 3 balls left, grabs 2 of them from the head of the table, walks to the foot end to start bringing balls up for the next game. What player A doesn't realize, is that he still needs 1 ball. Player B tells him immediately he wasn't done and still needed 1 more, but now A is standing there with 2 of the last 3 balls in his hand. What do they do? Both players are honest, and it was definitely a mistake, but how should this be handled?

GriffinG said:

Ok, so this came up the other night in the 1p league I run. I was not present at the time so the players made their own decision, then asked me later how I would rule on the situation. While there's not much I can do at that point, I wanted to solicit feedback as I couldn't really find what I thought was a definitive answer anywhere...

The game is nearing the end, with just a few balls left on the table. Player A is on a run and makes what he believes is his final shot, looks around the table and sees there are 3 balls left, grabs 2 of them from the head of the table, walks to the foot end to start bringing balls up for the next game. What player A doesn't realize, is that he still needs 1 ball. Player B tells him immediately he wasn't done and still needed 1 more, but now A is standing there with 2 of the last 3 balls in his hand. What do they do? Both players are honest, and it was definitely a mistake, but how should this be handled?

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Player A picks up more than 1 ball it is loss of game.
If your league keeps track of balls, then you need to make a league rule on how to count the balls he made.

Keeping score is a big part of one pocket.

I don't follow. Make a rule on how to count the balls that he made?

The league is done based on player ratings, and handicaps are assigned. Balls are counted and tracked for each game/match and play into their handicap.
The players are playing to a specific ball count, in this case, player A was going to 7 and had only made 6 balls at the time he picked those 2 up.

GriffinG said:

I don't follow. Make a rule on how to count the balls that he made?

The league is done based on player ratings, and handicaps are assigned. Balls are counted and tracked for each game/match and play into their handicap.
The players are playing to a specific ball count, in this case, player A was going to 7 and had only made 6 balls at the time he picked those 2 up.

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Then I would say player B won 8-6 for that game in question.

When we are gambling, it is just loss of game and we don't care about ball count.

If you don't care about table time, you can let them replay the game if they both agree.

Any way you decide to go about it... you should update your "house" rules so it is not a question the next time.

This is the rule from the rules section.

6.1 Unless otherwise announced by the tournament director, One Pocket is played according to the World General Rules 1.16.1, ‘cue ball fouls only’. In the event that a player accidentally moves a ball, the opponent may elect to have the disturbed ball remain in its new position or be restored to its original position. When balls are restored, they shall be placed as close as possible to their original positions, with no advantage to be gained by the offending player. If no official is available to restore disturbed balls, then the players must come to agreement on satisfactory replacement of the disturbed balls prior to continuing play.

ChicagoFats said:

Then I would say player B won 8-6 for that game in question.

When we are gambling, it is just loss of game and we don't care about ball count.

If you don't care about table time, you can let them replay the game if they both agree.

Any way you decide to go about it... you should update your "house" rules so it is not a question the next time.

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I agree with this when gambling as well. If you clear the balls and are not out, loss of game. If a league type situation, you could restore the balls to an approximate location as to not have to restart the game.

mhilton777 said:

This is the rule from the rules section.

6.1 Unless otherwise announced by the tournament director, One Pocket is played according to the World General Rules 1.16.1, ‘cue ball fouls only’. In the event that a player accidentally moves a ball, the opponent may elect to have the disturbed ball remain in its new position or be restored to its original position. When balls are restored, they shall be placed as close as possible to their original positions, with no advantage to be gained by the offending player. If no official is available to restore disturbed balls, then the players must come to agreement on satisfactory replacement of the disturbed balls prior to continuing play.

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LOL at getting players to agree when someone accidentally drops their stick in the middle of a whole pile of balls!!!

6.1.abcd..... Pay the man his money!

mhilton777 said:

I agree with this when gambling as well. If you clear the balls and are not out, loss of game. If a league type situation, you could restore the balls to an approximate location as to not have to restart the game.

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Agreed.
If I am gambling and a guy just picks up 1 ball... we usually let the other player put it wherever he thinks it was.
It doesn't happen that often.. but heck... we play long sessions and sometimes you just make mistakes!!!

ChicagoFats said:

LOL at getting players to agree when someone accidentally drops their stick in the middle of a whole pile of balls!!!

6.1.abcd..... Pay the man his money!

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Point taken! If most of the stack was there and it is an accident, rerack and start overt if playing cheap!

If your league is playing under OnePocket.org rules then go to rule 10.2 of the official rules. It states if you move more than 1 ball in assumption the game is over but it is not then it is a loss of game.

BCAPL sanctions leagues and their programs can accept a league that wants to get set up as a One Pocket league. If your league is a BCAPL league then go to general rule 1-43.4 Concession of Game, where it is also a loss.

But if your not a sanction league governed by anyone's rules then you can develop your own, and in this case there is nothing wrong in restoring the balls, but to let the guy shoot again would be totally up to their opponent, and way good exceptional sportsmanship. Usually it would be sportsmanship enough to just restore the balls then the opponent would shoot. Hope this is helpful. League play can get pretty serious depending upon the opponents!

I was coaching once in our league and went up to the table to coach and I inadvertently disturbed a ball. We were not sure what to do, so we gave the opponent the option to restore it or leave it. They left it and my player continued. So things come up! Whitey

hard core.. rule is 2 balls loss of game. good rule

friendly.. replace balls to the satisfaction of the other player and continue.
nothing ruins a friendly encounter like getting called on fouls for minor things that dont affect the outcome of the shot or game.

even for big money with a select few in my life we played no harm no foul.
just put them back even if you messed up half the table let the non offender put them where he thinks its fair. it actually works. each side knows that if the other abuses it then the gambling ends now and the future.

i would let the two decide for themselves but either could fall back on the official rule. since its a tournament.

beatle said:

hard core.. rule is 2 balls loss of game. good rule

friendly.. replace balls to the satisfaction of the other player and continue.
nothing ruins a friendly encounter like getting called on fouls for minor things that dont affect the outcome of the shot or game.

even for big money with a select few in my life we played no harm no foul.
just put them back even if you messed up half the table let the non offender put them where he thinks its fair. it actually works. each side knows that if the other abuses it then the gambling ends now and the future.

i would let the two decide for themselves but either could fall back on the official rule. since its a tournament.

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Can't beat that beatle.