Only on a rainey day. Its hard to beat some one that wont play unless the no what is haping. I tink I would have got him espcialy if he liked pool. A real Hustler has no weeknesses and doesnt play anything that he doesnt no. AND YOU CAN WRIGHT THAT DOWN.You gave up his weekness and thats all it takes one game thats all. And a real hustler is bulite proff.Dick Mc Morran said:
Artie Bodendorfer said:
It is very hard t answer if you dont realy no what a person does and even in gulf or cards every one has weeknesses but the Quistion is will he play before he has the correct line on you. Or will he get the correct line and set up the correct game to beat you. And You can also get the wrong line because the person giving the line is giving you a inccorect line. And then their is a lot more what will he go for . Can he be cheated or not. How smart is he. Will he gamble and bet without having the correct line. And only if you have all these answers can you no how sharp he is. He can be a chapion in one game and a sucker in another. And thats the story with most people. But only a few people no the persons real weekness.And their are not to many gamblers that dont have a weekness for other games. BUt to be able to say that about another person you wopuld have to no everything about them. And that is very hard. And some people hide their weeknesses. And the onl;y way that could be proven is to no what the did and how. I her what people said about Ti. But what did he do that made him great. And who did he do it to. And we need the proff and the evedence. I no Ronnie Gambled at Golf but I dont no howe he did. I no the people he was with and i no what the did and if he was in with them or did what the did I no he won. Because I no the one and the only way you could win is if the let you win. And that would be only to trap you in a nother and bigger game. And if I no who Ti hustled with and worked with that would say a lot and who he played. Was he a champion card player was he a champion card cheater all that comes into play. And I dont have no information on him excepte that he was great and how good he was. But no one gave up any information what made him great. And I could ask you quistions and your answers to the Quistions would verafie what you are saying. And I will only ask on Quistion because I dont want you to think I am interagating you. WAs Ti a card cheater just yes or no. Thank you and I will give you my answer. after you answer the quistion.hemicudas said:
Dick Mc Morran said:
Al Sherman would have beat Ti out of all his money and golf clubs. Al Was great. And I herd their were other people way sharper then Ti. All sherman didnt need no muscle he was his own muscle. And none of you people knew him. He loved pool but he didnt like winning in pool or maybe he just like loosing in pool. Al Sherman help out everybody. He was nothing but class. And I made some scores with Al and the were good scores. And nobody did or new what Al did. Al was a class act and he would have had Ti hustling for him. If you realy want a real opinion of all Sherman ask Vince Jackson. Al was like a father to him. And maybe you think Ty could have beat Vince Jackson to playing cards. You guys have to come into the real world and let go of diznie land. I her and see a lot of disneland stories. I would love to have 10% of what All sherman made. And Al didnt have a book out about storyies that grow and get fabrecated. Al Sherman was the real Deal. And he mad people rich. And JUst ask them about Al. I am not going to give their names but the are the ones that no. And the are the sharpest hustlers in the world today. And the learnsd from the great Al sherman. Al will never win a popularity contest over Ti he has no chance. But what all di nobody else did or new. I could give you people who made monster scores with Al. But Everybody has their champion and hero. And thats how it will go down in history. And what Al did will not be wrote about or exposed. And I no Jerry howerd sure felt bad when Al Sherman died. Ti could not have carried Al Shermans shoes.fred bentivegna said:
If Al Sherman would have gotten ahold of Arnold Rostein Arnold wouldnt have had enough money to buy a bowl of soup. Al did everything. Pool was his weekness and nobody realy new Als Strenghts. And All I am saying just ask the top hustlers and see what the say about Al sherman. I dont want you yo ask some one that doesnt no. And Al made some of the bigest scores in life. And We no that Rose Lost 15 million dollares and I dont think nobody can top that. And when Rose went to Federal court the judge asked Rose how did you lose 15 million dollares in checks. And rose said playing pool. And the judge said didnt you ever win. And Rose said no. And then the judge asked Rose why didny you bet Football or Baseball and Rose Smiled and said what do I no about Football? And Airplain was the best man I ever herd of. And the had some big money people in Det outside of the pool room that got beat for giant money. But again if people dont no the just continue with the same story. And If Ti was in DEt him and Al would have beat some people because thats what the did. And trying to beat each other would be a waste of time.jay helfert said:Artie, there's a good reason they wrote books about Titanic. Even your buddy (and mine) Fats looked up to him. I remember being in Johnston City when Fats was launching into one of his famous soliloquies and the topic of Titanic came up. He proceeded to talk about him for the next hour. And he kept saying TYYYYY, like he was talking about God.
I knew about Al Sherman and saw him in Detroit once or twice at The Rack. He was the one who told me to take my $100 bet somewhere else, when I tried to bet on Jimmy Reid. He said the minimum bet is $500.
I know that Al was in on many big scores with Jew Paul and Cornbread among others.
But you need to know Artie that Titanic was making scores that big (and bigger) thirty and forty years before. He was in on the card score over Arnold Rothstein for about 500G's that got Rothstein killed, because he refused to pay.
My feeling is this. If they had met (Ty and Al) they would have ended up being partners, and beaten some rich guy for a million or more. Smart guys are like that, they know when to team up. And what a team they would have been. That's how I feel about that.
I was never that smart and I admit it. I was just good enough to finish second a few times. I know they loved me at 7-11 and Guys and Dolls in New York. I wasn't afraid to play anyone, and lose. But they wised me up for California. I had a record like the Globetrotters out there, sometimes going months between losses. Even the great players looked up to me because I kept booking winners. Of course, like you, I knew who to play, what game to play them and how much to bet. It does make a difference.
Artie Bodendorfer said:
Dick Mc Morran said:Stop it Skin, none of my hats will fit me anymore. Thanks for the kudos, but I have to say, if you never saw me lose, you did not stop in often enough.
Dick
You dont have a clue what you are talking about not a clue. And If you wnat to match up hwith some card plarers you can do that to.Tell me what card game and I will can both get a player. And Backgamon. When I wrote about Al sherman I was talking to Freddy not you. And I no Freddy was bitter twords Al Because the had thier differences and words. I red that silly book about tie and the made up stories. I want to talk about real people and caracters. Not some made up story about some one traveled around couldnt carry Al shermans shoes. Every one knows how much big mone was in Detroit and all Sherman was the king. And Billy mite be one of the few that no what Al Sherman was about. AL was the king in Detroit and he didnt have to go anywere either to play. Because of all the money that was their. And Al traveled all over. He just didnt advertise were we went and when. Will Al Sherman would have beat all those people out of their money. And IT would be nice to her Billies opinion of Al and Ti and who will get the money. I would take all in anything but pool. And their are other people that I no are for real that I would bet on. I will put up my card players and none of your card players will play them. And I no Doyle. And I would even take chip Resse over all those players you mentioned. And I dont think any of your card players would play the people I would get. I cant figure out what you want to bet on. I no Al sherman was for real and I no one man that knew them both. And he said nobody would have beat Al Sherman or out hustled him nobody. And I would even like to bet that Al won % times the amount of money that Ti won. Were you in on any of Ti scores. I no I was in on three of Al Shermans scores and I never seen ayone else in life do what he did. Those set up gimmicks that are in the book only a complete idiot would go for that. Because anyone with a half a brain doesnt play another mans proposition and the were silly bets. Billy has the answer and he knowes the truth even in cards. And Stue Unger was one of the best card players. And playing Gin he mite have been the best ever in life.Do you have any clue how much money was won in Detroite. I didnt betray Ti I didnt even no him how can you betray someone you dont no. I Am a Al Sherman Fan And thats my man. ANd IF you people dont no him then how can you say anything. I am not worried about losing I have lost before. But you have to explain the bet to me and the rules. I will put up just tell me what we are betting on. Because I dont understand it. And I dont even no you. But that does not matter wethier I no you or not. Just tell me what the game is and the rules. And all the stories I herd about Ti was like a cartoon caracter these of the wall carnival games.THat are all premeditaded and fixed. And I did admite that I was Wrong and Freddy was wright. When he said the fought on north Ave new. And I said Folerton. But I admited to Freddy I was wrong because I no him. I dont no you and with you I am always wright. BUt I sugjest you let me no what you want to bet on. And I would be happy to match up with you. And mabe you can get Billy to answer and ask him who would win the money. Unless he wants to say the were both great and defusie it. Billy is a good gambler and he will gamble at maney games. He mite even be the favorite over TI. So let me no what the bet is and the rulles and we can put up with Varner Or Billy Or if that doesnt work . We can get a safty deposite box and nobody can get in the box unless we both sign ore name THat makes it pretty lagit. And their are very sharp people out their but their not like us . THe listen instead of talking. Al Sherman is still number one and I no he won big money. And Al playing Ti would be LIke Tiger Woods playing FReddy head up pinochale. Freddy would have the nuts. Freddt does some things better then anyone else. But you dont no Freddy eiteir and I do. And To me Ti was not realistic. And he was made up. And I belive in santa clause and I belive in superman. And I belive I can fly. And you dont have to calm down or shut up. Remember this is a free country. And get to excited is bad for peoples health. It causes strokes and stress when you get old. If Billy doesnt answer I win house rules.Dick Mc Morran said:Arty, you're beating your head against a stone wall, and I'm beginnig to think you have a pretty hard head. I did not now Al,
so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. But neither do you. You obviously do not read books, but even more important, you did not know Titanic, and don't have a clue why he became a legend. He became what he was by earning the respect of every con man and hustler he ever came across. And I'm talking Coke's, Fat's, Cornbread,Puckett, Nicky Vacchi, And later on RA, Cooney,Banana's, Cardone or any other "smart" you can name. And that's only pool. Do you want to get into the card playing legend's ? Benny, Doyle, Sailor, Slim, etc. Now if you think you are right, I gaurantee you I can get staked to put up any amount of money you want to bet, on your
"super hustler" guy. I' m sure he's good, but it would be like Tiger playing golf, with Freddie the Beard.
You have berated Ti, as some kind of "Disnyland" guy who was just a flash in the pan. I'm not mad at you, but I've had enough ! Put up your $30,60, 180,
240 K and YOU pick the judge's (within reason) and I will guarantee you, you WILL LOSE !
Bottom line Arty, put up or shut up, (or at least calm down) and for once in your life, admit you are wrong.
One Pocket Dick
jay helfert said:Artie, there's a good reason they wrote books about Titanic. Even your buddy (and mine) Fats looked up to him. I remember being in Johnston City when Fats was launching into one of his famous soliloquies and the topic of Titanic came up. He proceeded to talk about him for the next hour. And he kept saying TYYYYY, like he was talking about God.
I knew about Al Sherman and saw him in Detroit once or twice at The Rack. He was the one who told me to take my $100 bet somewhere else, when I tried to bet on Jimmy Reid. He said the minimum bet is $500.
I know that Al was in on many big scores with Jew Paul and Cornbread among others.
But you need to know Artie that Titanic was making scores that big (and bigger) thirty and forty years before. He was in on the card score over Arnold Rothstein for about 500G's that got Rothstein killed, because he refused to pay.
My feeling is this. If they had met (Ty and Al) they would have ended up being partners, and beaten some rich guy for a million or more. Smart guys are like that, they know when to team up. And what a team they would have been. That's how I feel about that.
I was never that smart and I admit it. I was just good enough to finish second a few times. I know they loved me at 7-11 and Guys and Dolls in New York. I wasn't afraid to play anyone, and lose. But they wised me up for California. I had a record like the Globetrotters out there, sometimes going months between losses. Even the great players looked up to me because I kept booking winners. Of course, like you, I knew who to play, what game to play them and how much to bet. It does make a difference.
Al Sherman did everything and what he did in the RAck was all nonsesns and peanuts. I no Some of the people Al made scores with and the didnt play pool and the didnt hang out at theb Rack. Al Was no angle but its hard to be a monk and when all that mone. To win big money you have to take advantage of people. And Hubart cooks would have lost his money with Al Sherman. And If you one the money in the rack their was no problem. And we no hubert cooks was a very tougb man and so was my friend chuck Madox who got shot in the head in peoria point blank. And none of these killers whould have had a chance with Al Sherman. Because of who he was and who he had behind him. And Ronnie Allen was only a few times in the rack he didnt spend time to much time their. And he played Bugs thier I think. Bugs said him and Ronnie played 3 times and he won twice. Al sherman was not a pool hustler All Sherman did evervthing. And hubert cooks had no chance against those people. And I guess you think hubert cooks would have been a tough guy against Al CApone. You have to understand cooks was bad and tough against tough guys . But when it comes to killers its a different ball game. And some of the people Al made scores with are filty rich. But I am no going to mention their names. You keep your opion and I will keep meine. At least their will be a few people that didnt no Al that will no him now. And Al was the grandady of all the hustlers. And If some one realy new him and you would her their side of the story. THen you would get a better understanding of Al Sherman. And his games were diferent then Ti. Did the cheat Arnold Rosteen when the one the money? THe made him a Tv caracter to . But movies make up a lot of things that arent true . And all the are woried about is how meny people are going to come to see the movie. And when you put in actresses like Barbara Strisein it will draw. And the movie the hustler was anthing but hustling and FATS> It was a straight pool movie and all it had was two straight pool players getting together and playing straight pool. And Paul Newman played the part of a drunk and a sucker. The movie was all about EGO. And no backer in real life would have let paul newman lose the money back after he had the money. thats why their hustling to win the money. And if I was the backer I would have pulled up my player and said we will play tomarrow. Because he had the money and could dick tate. And if he wanted his money and go off drunk. I would haveb given him his money if he would have wanted his money and not listen to me. And IO would have told him will splite the money and go and get you another backer. And that is what would happen in the real world. And the public loves nonses and it sells. But a real hustler would no do what he did in the move. especialt Fats. And when he beat the guy were the broke his thumbs a hustler is not going to show off if he is trying to hustle upenough money to play Fats straight pool again. And he could have kepte beating the player close games and he could have one all the money and made it look good and nothing would have happened. And the picked the worst games to use in a hustling movei. And then with insulte the used the greatest straight pool player in life to hold the stakes. Willie Moscone. What a insulte. And Willy was a better swowmen in pool then Paul Newman and Jackie Glesspon. He should have been the straight pool player. But It is hard for me to realize that willy would take such a much part. After being the greatest exabition player in life. And the best straight pool player in life. The should have used nine ball or one pocket or eight ball. But to show a hustling move and bar hustling and then play straight pool. Well that explains TV. but thats the way the story went. And dont ever belive that a tough guyor killer will win against a real gangster.A gangster will win 99% of the time you will be dead before you get a chance to go for your gun. The have the mortale nuts when the kill you and the dont give you 1% chance. And thier is no will give him a chance and then kill him the kill you when you least excpect it and the give you no chance. This will no be like Billy the Kid in a gun fight. But people have to no the difference. And HUbert Cokes was a bad man. And people were plenty scared of him. But you have to look at the people who were scared of him. And hubert Cooks was a classy man. And I am sure Varner can give you a good opion of huberty cooks. I would like to ask you were you in with Ti on any of his scores. And was Ti a card cheater? I would say yes because it would be hard to belive the beat Arnold Rostein on the square. And Ty had all made up gimmick games but I dont no how the took him off cheating or on the square? Freddy made a score for 8 hundred thousand so we will put him in their with TY ok. What you think Freddy. And I would back Freddy playing Ty head up pinochale put Freddy would have went for some of Ty traps I think. But maybe not. Was Ty a con man or a traper. Evile canivale was great at stunts put he wasant to good as a gambler. To be in the class with the greatest hustlers you have to have no weeknesses. And that field is very small.Dick Mc Morran said:
