What could Efren give up today?

hemicudas · Mar 2, 2007

What do you think Efren could give up under this scenario?

Let’s take one of if not the straightest shooters in this country, Cory Duel, who himself is a great one pocket player. Let’s give him a coach. The only one pocket mind close to that of Efren’s. Let’s give him Ronnie Allen. Ronnie’s playing ability is a mere fraction of his glory days, yet his one pocket mind think is still totally intact.

What would be a fair game assuming, Cory, executed all the shots, Ronnie suggested? Even? Small weight? Large weight? You tell me???

gulfportdoc · Mar 2, 2007

hemicudas said:
What would be a fair game assuming, Cory, executed all the shots, Ronnie suggested? Even? Small weight? Large weight? You tell me???

I'm inclined to say even. However many of Ronnie's shots were executed by sheer will power. I don't know if they would transfer through Cory's play. If not, Efren would have the edge. It's an interesting proposition, and one which the parties might go for if you'd be able to get all three together in one place. I don't know if Cory would agree to do it though.

Doc

BackPocket9Ball · Mar 2, 2007

Corey does not have the same touch as Efren does. I've seen it with my own eyes on several occasions. Even if Corey had Ronnie Allen as a coach, he could not play Efren even.

NH Steve · Mar 2, 2007

Corey might need a committee, not just Ronnie

Anyway, who is to say that Corey already doesn't think he knows 'the right shot' in any given situation and wouldn't want anyone's advice...

I would think that coaching works best if you have a real steep difference between the shooter's knowledge and the coach's expertise, along with a high level of earned trust between the coach and player. Corey is probably already past the coaching stage...and if he was open, who would he elect for a coach?

I also wonder if you don't lose a little with a coach anyway, just because of the awkwardness of it.

Shag_Fu · Mar 2, 2007

Efren gave up 10-7 or 10-6 at the derby and lost to corey w/o a coach(race to 10 i think). I dont know if having a coach will bring it up to even. Corey has some of Ronnie's creativity, and aggressiveness already. He does seem to lack that last inch of touch that reyes and ronnie might have that makes the safeties so much more powerful. Also some of the cluster knowledge that reyes seems to have mastered.(im watching last years corey/efren dcc final for some more info so it might be a bit dated)

Mike · Mar 3, 2007

It's really difficult to evaluate the effect of Ronnie's coaching but should do something for Corey's game. Seeing that Efren lost to Corey 10-7 it seems that 9-7 -- 9-8 is a game Efren could give Corey with Ronnie coaching.

Grady · Mar 3, 2007

Coaching is only worth about a ball and a quarter, if the guy is a good coach.
Corey can't spell One Pocket, as far as playing the game correctly.
He tried to give Marco Marquez 8 to 7. Marco robbed him, mostly because Corey doesn't know how to protect the lead. It was the worst "moving" I've ever seen from a top player.

fred bentivegna · Mar 4, 2007

another good point

another good point

gulfportdoc said:
...many of Ronnie's shots were executed by sheer will power. I don't know if they would transfer through Cory's play...
Doc

That was another good take on this subject, Doc. ... because Cory would have to buy into, and believe in Ronnies style. To do that, Ronnie would have to give up the secret reasons why Cory should do what he is told. To make the shots work, Cory would have to believe wholeheartedly in what he is being told to do. I know Ronnie, and with a gun to his head he wouldnt give up the real reasons behind his strategy to a straight shooter like Cory just to win a bet. He might not tell his own son...

the Beard

hemicudas · Mar 4, 2007

King Kong vs Godzilla

King Kong vs Godzilla

When I started this thread I had Efren giving up 9-8 in my mind. I still believe that would be an even game if Cory accepted the idea that Ronnie had a superior one pocket mind set. Cory is still young. Too young to have seen Ronnie dusting them all in his prime. To quote, Jersey Red, “With plastic balls, Ronnie Allen, is the greatest one pocket player ever.” Obviously, this statement was made before Efren hit his stride.
I can think of no one pocket match available with more interest than putting Ronnie Allen in action again with the straight shooting ability of a Cory Duel. WOW, this one would be a KING KONG vs. GODZILLA.

tsk7878 · Mar 4, 2007

what could efren give up

what could efren give up

wouldn't the size of the wager have some bearing on the outcome?I would imagine Efren giving up more for $25,000 than he would for $

500.

Shorty · Mar 5, 2007

The biggest problem with this matchup would have to be the personality clash between Ronnie and Corey. From what I hear, neither would want to give an inch on thier opinions on shots...

I would still back Efren in this game.

hemicudas · Mar 5, 2007

Good thinking, Grady

Good thinking, Grady

Grady said:
Coaching is only worth about a ball and a quarter, if the guy is a good coach.
Corey can't spell One Pocket, as far as playing the game correctly.
He tried to give Marco Marquez 8 to 7. Marco robbed him, mostly because Corey doesn't know how to protect the lead. It was the worst "moving" I've ever seen from a top player.

This is a great point, Grady. I chose, Cory and Ronnie, due to Cory’s straight shooting ability. I would never argue with Grady’s assessment of any player’s one pocket thought process. Assuming, Grady, is right who would be a better fit with, Ronnie, as a partner? Grady mentions Marco. How about him? Or, could it be possible that because, as Grady puts it, Cory can’t spell one pocket, would he bow to, Ronnie’s, superior one pocket thought process and do exactly what Ronnie suggests without questioning the move? Bottom line, Ronnie and “Who” would make the best, “Team”, to challenge Efren?

Pelican · Mar 6, 2007

Knowledge

Knowledge

Having the knowledge and being able to impart it to another in a manner they can use it is a tricky situation. That is why not everyone can be a teacher. Grady stated that Cory doesn't have the moves, can Ronnie express them in such a manner that Cory will be able to execute. Cory is a super shot maker but does he have the ability to make the delicate safety play necessary in a game of this caliber. Perhaps more finesse is required than Cory is accustomed to using.

Would really be interesting. Still say I'd pay for a front row seat

Pel

Tom Wirth · Mar 6, 2007

When it comes to One Pocket, two heads are NEVER as good as one.
Cory would still need a lot of weight. Maybe he'd need more with a great coach then he would with no coach at all.
Try playing captains sometime you'll soon see what I'm talking about.

hemicudas · Mar 7, 2007

Tom Wirth said:
When it comes to One Pocket, two heads are NEVER as good as one.
Cory would still need a lot of weight. Maybe he'd need more with a great coach then he would with no coach at all.
Try playing captains sometime you'll soon see what I'm talking about.

Gotta disagree on this, Tom. I had it in mind that a player with the knowledge of Ronnie Allen would probably be worth a ball and a half. Grady says a ball and a quarter. I believe Grady. Cory, John Schmidt or any straight shooting US player would not need Ronnie’s assistance on every shot ie running 8 and out. But, from Efren’s tough break Ronnie would have a better idea how to reverse it or play a lock up safe. Any time there would be a run out opportunity I’m sure Ronnie would say, Go ahead on son.
You could easily be right about coaching in a run out game such as 9 ball, Tom but having Ronnie Allen in your corner playing one pocket has to be an advantage.

Tom Wirth · Mar 8, 2007

Having ronnie in your corner can never be bad. Drunk, sober, or asleep.

Splash · Apr 2, 2007

But Corey hates one pocket

But Corey hates one pocket

FWIW, Corey hates the better half of the one pocket game.

In an interview with BI, he said his way of enjoying the game is creative breaks, reading the stack, offensive moves, bust them up and the challenge of running 15 and out. He would prefer that EVERY shot taken in the game be offensive only, and that "ticky-tacky little safeties" be banned from the game.

Don't know how this would play out with Ronnie Allen, who I understand was very aggressive, but surely made some defensive moves to set the stage before he unleashed the dogs of war.

tonygreen · Nov 25, 2011

Smartest Player thread

Smartest Player thread

Just because thread is 4 years old doesn't make it out-dated and sure specifics may have changed i.e. Reyes is older among other things Deuel is wiser among other things.
the smartest player thread is still interesting with this thread's added twist.

If you were a top 50 player and could choose a coach to assist you in playing another top 50 player ... who might you choose?

Scrzbill · Nov 25, 2011

Coach vs Case

Coach vs Case

You did not discuss what stage of sobriety that RA would be coaching. Is it early in the case or half way in between or is he in his twenties? Cory already is very imaginative, that's not his problem. Matching Efrens abilities is the problem. I would rather see Billy I coach him away from some of his choices, not to them.

One Pocket Ghost · Nov 25, 2011

tonygreen said:
Just because thread is 4 years old doesn't make it out-dated and sure specifics may have changed i.e. Reyes is older among other things Deuel is wiser among other things.
the smartest player thread is still interesting with this thread's added twist.

If you were a top 50 player and could choose a coach to assist you in playing another top 50 player ... who would you choose?

Is there really any other choice >>> One Pocket Ghost...:heh

What could Efren give up today?

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