Trap/Wedge cue ball rule

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bioactive

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This is a rule listed for OP at the Derby City Classic:

"Trapping or Wedging the Cue Ball: It is a foul if you deliberately trap or wedge the cue ball in the jaw of the pocket. In addition to the foul penalty, your opponent receives cue ball in hand behind the head string."

I cannot find this rule in the onepocket.org rules or elsewhere.

How does one determine that the cue ball has been trapped or wedged in the pocket? What does "wedge" mean in this context? I have heard this word used in the context of a cluster of balls up table but not for a cue ball in the jaws of a pocket.

Jim
 
gulfportdoc

gulfportdoc

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"Trapping" refers to the act of intentionally pushing or jamming the CB into the facing of the pocket with the cue tip by sustained contact, causing it to be frozen to the facing. In some events this would cause a call of unsportsmanlike contact, and might result in loss of game or match.

~Doc
 
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Jeff sparks

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bioactive said:
This is a rule listed for OP at the Derby City Classic:

"Trapping or Wedging the Cue Ball: It is a foul if you deliberately trap or wedge the cue ball in the jaw of the pocket. In addition to the foul penalty, your opponent receives cue ball in hand behind the head string."

I cannot find this rule in the onepocket.org rules or elsewhere.

How does one determine that the cue ball has been trapped or wedged in the pocket? What does "wedge" mean in this context? I have heard this word used in the context of a cluster of balls up table but not for a cue ball in the jaws of a pocket.

Jim
Click to expand...

I believe what the rule is referring to is an extended contact of the cue tip to the cue ball, thereby wedging or trapping the cb to the inside of the pocket facing...
 
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jokerley

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I just witnessed this conversation on a table with tight pockets , the example being if the cue ball is froze to the object ball you cannot foul the cue ball with a double hit , therefore if both balls move then the cue ball had to leave the jaw of the pocket and return constituting a legal hit . These were far better players than me I found it interesting . In my humble opinion I would call it a foul as it is a non productive shot like taking an intentional foul. This actually came up as a shot in an 8 ball tournament recently is how the topic started .
 
Nick B

Nick B

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Trap/Wedge cue ball rule

jokerley said:
I just witnessed this conversation on a table with tight pockets , the example being if the cue ball is froze to the object ball you cannot foul the cue ball with a double hit , therefore if both balls move then the cue ball had to leave the jaw of the pocket and return constituting a legal hit . These were far better players than me I found it interesting . In my humble opinion I would call it a foul as it is a non productive shot like taking an intentional foul. This actually came up as a shot in an 8 ball tournament recently is how the topic started .
Click to expand...



If a ball is frozen to a rail that rail is effectively “dead” and you need to drive the ball to a different rail. Coming off it and back doesn’t count.


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L

lll

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Nick B said:
If a ball is frozen to a rail that rail is effectively “dead” and you need to drive the ball to a different rail. Coming off it and back doesn’t count.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

nick are you saying if the cue ball is frozen to the rail
and an object ball i very close to it
if you hit the object ball with draw and come back to the same rail and the object ball does not hit a cushion that is a foul ????
i would say that was a good hit
sorry to the op for the mini hijack
 
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lll

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Jeff sparks said:
I believe what the rule is referring to is an extended contact of the cue tip to the cue ball, thereby wedging or trapping the cb to the inside of the pocket facing...
Click to expand...

for the op
this "extended contact" forcing /trapping/wedging/ the cue ball to the facing is not a legal stroke and is a foul.
i could not find in our rules that you get ball in hand in the kitchen
which would be fair because it could be worth one ball to leave your opponent frozen to the facing
i agree this could also be considered unsportsmanship behavior and loss of game
 
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chicagomike

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What if your opponent put you frozen in the jaws? Can you then just touch the CB with your tip and take the foul without the BIH penalty behind the line?
 
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bioactive

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Jeff sparks said:
I believe what the rule is referring to is an extended contact of the cue tip to the cue ball, thereby wedging or trapping the cb to the inside of the pocket facing...
Click to expand...

Extended contact of the tip with the cue ball is illegal anywhere on the table already according to WPA rule 6.8. If that is what they are talking about, why mention the special case of being in the jaws of a pocket?

6.8 Push Shot
It is a foul to prolong tip-to-cue-ball contact beyond that seen in normal shots.
 
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bioactive

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jokerley said:
I just witnessed this conversation on a table with tight pockets , the example being if the cue ball is froze to the object ball you cannot foul the cue ball with a double hit , therefore if both balls move then the cue ball had to leave the jaw of the pocket and return constituting a legal hit . These were far better players than me I found it interesting . In my humble opinion I would call it a foul as it is a non productive shot like taking an intentional foul. This actually came up as a shot in an 8 ball tournament recently is how the topic started .
Click to expand...

So you are saying that you cannot use the pocket facing as a rail to complete a safe shot? Either the OB or CB would have to contact a rail facing the main playing surface and not the facing of the pocket. That makes sense to me.
 
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bioactive

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Is this what they mean?

Is this what they mean?

Is this what they mean? The part of the rail that forms the pocket facing is not considered to be a rail for the purpose of a safety?

 
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bioactive

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OK, I get it now. Just talked to someone with familiarity for the source of this rule. Apparently people have taken an intentional foul by using prolonged tip contact to press the ball up against the facing of the pocket, as a couple of people responded here. Normally this would be just loss of a point if done against a rail out on the table but in the case where they do it in the jaws of the pocket it gives too much additional advantage so it becomes both loss of a point AND ball in hand behind the headstring for the opponent. Makes sense.
 
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lll

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bioactive said:
So something like this would be a legal shot, correct?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMJNXEjbFpg&feature=youtu.be
Click to expand...

bioactive said:
OK, I get it now. Just talked to someone with familiarity for the source of this rule. Apparently people have taken an intentional foul by using prolonged tip contact to press the ball up against the facing of the pocket, as a couple of people responded here. Normally this would be just loss of a point if done against a rail out on the table but in the case where they do it in the jaws of the pocket it gives too much additional advantage so it becomes both loss of a point AND ball in hand behind the headstring for the opponent. Makes sense.
Click to expand...
nice touch on the you tube video
yes
you have it right
 
Jimmy B

Jimmy B

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bioactive said:
This is a rule listed for OP at the Derby City Classic:

"Trapping or Wedging the Cue Ball: It is a foul if you deliberately trap or wedge the cue ball in the jaw of the pocket. In addition to the foul penalty, your opponent receives cue ball in hand behind the head string."

I cannot find this rule in the onepocket.org rules or elsewhere.

How does one determine that the cue ball has been trapped or wedged in the pocket? What does "wedge" mean in this context? I have heard this word used in the context of a cluster of balls up table but not for a cue ball in the jaws of a pocket.

Jim
Click to expand...


There a way to freeze it up for a corner hook by doing an unintentional intentional.. you can't leave the tip in contact, but you hit the cue ball and then gently follow through and hit the cue ball again and hold it right in place right up against the facing and say whoops, I fouled it, accident, and spot up one, and that's it...
 
Patrick Johnson

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chicagomike said:
What if your opponent put you frozen in the jaws? Can you then just touch the CB with your tip and take the foul without the BIH penalty behind the line?
Click to expand...
I think the principle is that "illegal stroke" fouls should be treated differently than fouls taken with a legal stroke. So if you can "touch" the CB with a legal stroke, then I think it should be counted like any other intentional foul.

But if the CB is frozen to the cushion and you touch it with your cue pointed straight through the ball toward the rail, the CB must rebound at least a little or it's a push shot (prolonged contact "trapping" the CB against the rail) and a "special" foul. (Actually, I think it's probably impossible to stroke that way legally.)

pj
chgo
 
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