Go Back   OnePocket.org Forums > One Pocket Forum
Register FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 04-15-2019, 08:46 AM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is online now
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Klamath Falls, Or.
Posts: 887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by catkins View Post
even if not frozen I would say that if the ball you move with your cue travels forward it likely has crossed the path of the cue ball and is thus a foul!
No, it is not a foul. You are thinking it out opposite, for the cue ball is not the disturbed ball in this case.
The object ball you are shooting over is the ball that is disturbed, and then if the cue ball goes through the area that the disturbed ball once occupied then that would be a foul, in accordance to the WPA rule.

The rule of thumb is; it is always best when you know you have disturbed a ball, to 'not' continue to stroke the cue ball, but rather pick up off of the shot if you can do so, and let your opponent know that you have disturbed a ball. Otherwise you are in jeopardy of the cue ball traveling through the space once occupied by the disturbed ball, thus a foul.

I was playing a friend of mine in a tournament out of town, and he drove me to the tournament. Our match was for 2/3 place, but he shot in a ball and drew the cue ball back through an area where he had disturbed a ball. I called a foul, which they figured it out and it was a foul by rule. Well, with BIH I missed the next shot, and said; " I had to give him a break, he might not give me a ride back home". It got some laughs! But it was really in mind! Whitey

Last edited by Dennis "Whitey" Young; 04-15-2019 at 09:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-15-2019, 10:31 AM
lll lll is online now
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: vero beach fl
Posts: 14,133
Default

thanks to all for your replies.
my thoughts were when you are jacked up that increases the difficulty of the shot and moving the jacked up ball (frozen or not ) whether setting up or stroking should be a foul like doc pointed out for jumping and masse shots
if after the shot you move the ball then the standard cue ball only rules should apply ...thats what i thought
but now i know better
thanks whitey and everyone
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-16-2019, 02:22 AM
FxYxDx FxYxDx is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Steve View Post
Today I played one of our newer members, and he prefers to play all ball fouls when gambling. I would rather not because I do tend to bump balls inadvertently sometimes. Instead I suggested all ball fouls with a one touch warning. He agreed to that. We played about 6 hours and I believe I was the only one to touch an object ball, which I called on myself for the warning So there were no fouls.

I like all ball fouls with a one touch warning. What I mean by that is that if you bump a ball prior to releasing your stroke then it is a warning only, and opponent has the option of putting the ball back or leaving it where it lies. If you touch a second time that's a foul. If you contact a ball during or following your stroke that is always a foul. So it is not quite as stringent as all ball fouls and hopefully less prone to arguments and phantom foul calls. My own feeling is all ball fouls kind of needs a referee. In fact, that is exactly why the general rules went to cue ball fouls only -- when there is no referee. But I think "all ball fouls with a one touch warning" is a pretty good compromise...
You actually did foul one time but i let it go lol, it was very subtle there’s no way you knew you did it and i didn’t want you to think i was making it up so i just let it go. I was gonna say something but just figured i would mention it next time we played but then i saw this lol. You were jacked up I’ve the 5 and just rubber it ever so slightly... i think all ball fouls personally is the best way especially in a game like one pocket... what is the point of putting a guy in the stack if he can just move a ball with no foul? I like the pressure and i also notice when you play that way a lot less balls get moving when they shouldn’t be. But yes no incidents real for the whole day. I played tonight with a guy and i fouled once with the bridge he fouled like four times tho... usually there is no dispute if a guy moves or touches the ball it’s usually an issue if the guy is shooting and move a ball in his stroke sometimes they can’t tell and think you’re pulling a move. On the other hand i was playing 200 a game with a guy and he moved the ball with his pinky... if you touch a ball with your fingertip you feel it but since he was stuck 1600 at that point he refused to take the foul and that was our last game because i don’t play with someone who is going to blatantly not follow the rules we agreed on just because they are down
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-16-2019, 02:39 AM
FxYxDx FxYxDx is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by darmoose View Post
One Pocket is hard enough without increasing minutia rules that will accomplish nothing determinative as far as winning or losing a game. More rules, more tediousness, more subjectiveness and disagreements between players, whether gambling or playing in tournaments.

Matching up today is difficult enough without having to come to agreement on dozens of "alternative" rules in an environment where losing $20 dollars is devastating to all too many.

The CB only fouls rule was created to minimize the tediousness and subjectiveness of calling fouls for no determinative reason. It is clear that with this rule, as we play it, that accidentally touching an OB whether with your tip or otherwise, whether before, during, or after your stroke only becomes a foul if the path of the CB is interfered with, or two or more balls are moved, or if the CB moves through an area where it would have contacted an OB if not for it being moved out of the way illegally.

The only rational I can see for making an exception when the CB and OB are frozen and you are shooting over the OB is if you feel that by accidentally touching the OB during your stroke the CB was moved and it's path was technically interfered with. But, to attribute any intended advantage to the shooter by his intentionally doing this is, I think, absurd.

We would be far better served by considering rules that can fix problems of consequence, like eliminating "tapping" style intentionals that favor one player over another, by implementing the rule giving the incoming player an option to shoot or return the shot following any foul.
The main reason i think moving a ball in your stroke should always be a foul is this.. why should you award a shot that you couldnít make clean? Shooting over a ball is supposed to be difficult sometimes they put you there on purpose you shouldnít be taking a shot like that if you canít make it without moving the balls. At that rate why not just move any ball you are jacked up in o make the shot easy...
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-16-2019, 08:15 AM
darmoose darmoose is online now
Verified Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,225
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FxYxDx View Post
You actually did foul one time but i let it go lol, it was very subtle thereís no way you knew you did it and i didnít want you to think i was making it up so i just let it go. I was gonna say something but just figured i would mention it next time we played but then i saw this lol. You were jacked up Iíve the 5 and just rubber it ever so slightly... i think all ball fouls personally is the best way especially in a game like one pocket... what is the point of putting a guy in the stack if he can just move a ball with no foul? I like the pressure and i also notice when you play that way a lot less balls get moving when they shouldnít be. But yes no incidents real for the whole day. I played tonight with a guy and i fouled once with the bridge he fouled like four times tho... usually there is no dispute if a guy moves or touches the ball itís usually an issue if the guy is shooting and move a ball in his stroke sometimes they canít tell and think youíre pulling a move. On the other hand i was playing 200 a game with a guy and he moved the ball with his pinky... if you touch a ball with your fingertip you feel it but since he was stuck 1600 at that point he refused to take the foul and that was our last game because i donít play with someone who is going to blatantly not follow the rules we agreed on just because they are down
Quote:
Originally Posted by FxYxDx View Post
The main reason i think moving a ball in your stroke should always be a foul is this.. why should you award a shot that you couldnít make clean? Shooting over a ball is supposed to be difficult sometimes they put you there on purpose you shouldnít be taking a shot like that if you canít make it without moving the balls. At that rate why not just move any ball you are jacked up in to make the shot easy...
While you are absolutely correct in what you saying technically, your comments towards Steve demonstrate the problem with your approach. All fouls called on an opponent are subject to him saying "no, I didn't" leading to disagreement, argument, and as in your example, end of match. Some touches are obvious and some are hardly detectable. Your analysis assumes that the shooter gained some advantage or made a deliberate illegal stroke when he most certainly did not, and more likely he did not get the result he wanted because the stroke was interfered with by an OB.

You are going to play with people that are flawless in calling and accepting fouls on themselves, and you are going to play with people that are not so much. And additionally, your approach assumes that YOU cannot make a mistake, YOU are always right, which is not reasonable.

So, concluding, didn't you feel just a little foolish when thumping your opponent at $200/game, being up $1600, and you ended the match by calling a disputed foul. Most gamblers would think so. Perhaps you should have just asked him if he touched a ball.
__________________
The early bird may get the worm...but the second mouse gets the cheese...Shutin@urholeisOVERATED.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-16-2019, 08:38 AM
NH Steve's Avatar
NH Steve NH Steve is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 7,955
Default

Yeah, I certainly only noticed the one that was during my setup -- which was just a warning I called on myself.

I'm glad you didn't call the subtle one you saw because I definitely did not notice it and I probably would have disputed it a tiny bit at least My thoughts are the foul has to be definite and clear if the opponent is calling it -- unless a neutral referee or someone called in to act as a referee makes the call if you think it is going to be a close situation. (Was I behind or ahead at that point lol? Close calls should always go to the player behind lol) But without a ref, close calls goes to the shooter anyway -- because that's when, if you are the opponent, you call over someone to watch. As an opponent you always have that option. Especially if you don't trust your opponent of course!! But I had the feeling we trusted each other and we were not playing for that much anyway

Rematch next Saturday right?
__________________
"One Pocket, it's an epidemic and there ain't no cure."
-- Strawberry Brooks
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-16-2019, 12:41 PM
jerry matchin jerry matchin is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,199
Default

On cueball fouls only, I believe on the forestroke hitting the object ball then the cueball is a foul. Why, because we didn't discuss the distance between the object ball and cueball and if it's very close there is no way to determine if the cueball was touched before the tip of the cue struck it. These rules require professional conduct by the shooter to call it on himself. Seldom seen I might add. If the object ball was struck by the tip of the cue or shaft on its backstroke then it is not a foul.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-16-2019, 05:23 PM
Matt_24 Matt_24 is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 150
Default

When I grew up playing as a young kid with my dad, he always made me play "all ball fouls". Definitely taught me attention to detail in setting up for a shot. He also made me go opposite hand instead of grabbing the bridge on stretch shots.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-16-2019, 06:31 PM
FxYxDx FxYxDx is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Steve View Post
Yeah, I certainly only noticed the one that was during my setup -- which was just a warning I called on myself.

I'm glad you didn't call the subtle one you saw because I definitely did not notice it and I probably would have disputed it a tiny bit at least My thoughts are the foul has to be definite and clear if the opponent is calling it -- unless a neutral referee or someone called in to act as a referee makes the call if you think it is going to be a close situation. (Was I behind or ahead at that point lol? Close calls should always go to the player behind lol) But without a ref, close calls goes to the shooter anyway -- because that's when, if you are the opponent, you call over someone to watch. As an opponent you always have that option. Especially if you don't trust your opponent of course!! But I had the feeling we trusted each other and we were not playing for that much anyway

Rematch next Saturday right?
Idk if I’ll b able to play Saturday unless you can play Thursday during the day i forgot my friend from florida is comming to visit me for Easter... i do want to play again tho ASAP! And yes i felt like on a shot like that i should have asked someone to watch and idk it was cheap games and i wasn’t trying to make a big deal out of it. I just add a note to remember to call someone over for next time!

I think ABF should be the standard tho. I remember watching Scott Frost in the US open foul at least two times and at that level that’s just shameful.

There are shots i don’t try to takewhen it’s all ball fouls and that goes to my point about you being able to take a shot clean or don’t take it at all.

Last edited by FxYxDx; 04-16-2019 at 06:33 PM. Reason: Spelling
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-16-2019, 06:44 PM
FxYxDx FxYxDx is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by darmoose View Post
While you are absolutely correct in what you saying technically, your comments towards Steve demonstrate the problem with your approach. All fouls called on an opponent are subject to him saying "no, I didn't" leading to disagreement, argument, and as in your example, end of match. Some touches are obvious and some are hardly detectable. Your analysis assumes that the shooter gained some advantage or made a deliberate illegal stroke when he most certainly did not, and more likely he did not get the result he wanted because the stroke was interfered with by an OB.

You are going to play with people that are flawless in calling and accepting fouls on themselves, and you are going to play with people that are not so much. And additionally, your approach assumes that YOU cannot make a mistake, YOU are always right, which is not reasonable.

So, concluding, didn't you feel just a little foolish when thumping your opponent at $200/game, being up $1600, and you ended the match by calling a disputed foul. Most gamblers would think so. Perhaps you should have just asked him if he touched a ball.
I didnít feel foolish at all because he knew he fouled idc who you are, fingertips are some of the most sensitive things in the world. He didnít take the fouls because it was going to put him in a very bad situation. I let him know right then and there that was going to be the last game if he wanted to cheat. We had been playing for literally 12 hours at that point so... also weíve played MANY times and it was never an issue when we called fouls but today he was down and his true colors showed so i donít care to play with someone like that... if you canít habdle losing then stop betting donít start cheating.... as for me not being able to make a mistake? I mean Iím 32 if i watch a guy touch a ball or a ball moves it happened Iím not going to mistake that with immaculate vision if thatís what you mean... i actually am seriously considering recording shots with my phone to end all debates with certain people....of you meant Iím not going to make a mistake as in a foul well thatís going to happen from time to time.. We all have just hardly touched a ball and we feel it, no one doesnít feel that especially with your finger tip not playing with someone like that for that kind of money. I never assumed there was deliberate illegal strike thatís YOUR analysis(typing words on my page LOL) . As for not getting the results idk thatís hard to say but again that goes to my point about donít take a shot if you canít take it without disturbing balls.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All original content Copyright Onepocket.org and/or the original author. All rights reserved.