Makin' Mistakes

wincardona said:

By the way your path of the cue ball after cotacting the 2 ball is not natural, the cue ball should hit the bottom cusion, then the side cusion, and then naturally (with a little left english)go toward the center of the head rail. Nothing bad can happen to you if executed the way described.

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wincardona,

In your first post you said hit it with inside. In this post you say hit it with left. Which are both the same. How is the cueball going to the side rail? You have lost me.

Dennis

Cowboy Dennis said:

wincardona,

In your first post you said hit it with inside. In this post you say hit it with left. Which are both the same. How is the cueball going to the side rail? You have lost me.

Dennis

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Cowboy, after contacting the right side of the 2 ball the cue ball will hit the bottom cusion , then the side cusion about 18 inches before the side pocket, then it will travel toward the center of the end rail.

You are probably striking the 2 ball too thinly, try hitting the 2 ball with a fuller hit. Experiment with the hit untill you develope a feel for the shot, then get back with me.

By the way the distance between the 2 ball and the 9 ball, the way I see it is only about 1/8 of an inch at most, correct?

wincardona said:

Cowboy, after contacting the right side of the 2 ball the cue ball will hit the bottom cusion , then the side cusion about 18 inches before the side pocket, then it will travel toward the center of the end rail.

You are probably striking the 2 ball too thinly, try hitting the 2 ball with a fuller hit. Experiment with the hit untill you develope a feel for the shot, then get back with me.

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More like this I guess? The 2 and 9 did look to be very close but not touching. An eigth of an inch sounds about right.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa2PJBc3Qcxt4VATV4VAkV3VDHp4dDNY4dbPt3dRsV2kJBc3kBqK3kLpj3kapB2kEWG@[/CUETABLE]

Cowboy Dennis said:

More like this I guess? The 2 and 9 did look to be very close but not touching. An eigth of an inch sounds about right.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa2PJBc3Qcxt4VATV4VAkV3VDHp4dDNY4dbPt3dRsV2kJBc3kBqK3kLpj3kapB2kEWG@[/CUETABLE]

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Exactly, you can move the cue ball 3 or 4 inches to the left for your starting position, you may develope a better feel for the shot from that position. Quite often the 9 ball will contact the 2 ball and send the 2 ball toward your pocket, but keep in mind the cue ball is the important part of this shot. The 9 and the 2 will take care of themselves.

wincardona said:

Exactly, you can move the cue ball 3 or 4 inches to the left for your starting position, you may develope a better feel for the shot from that position. Quite often the 9 ball will contact the 2 ball and send the 2 ball toward your pocket, but keep in mind the cue ball is the important part of this shot. The 9 and the 2 will take care of themselves.

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After contact the 9 ball will throw at least an inch down from where it is aiming, creating an angle toward your pocket. This shot is a no brainer.

Cowboy Dennis said:

This shot that I've posted is from that first game. Daulton had 7 balls and Deuel had 5 balls, and had just scratched. Daulton had ball in hand and needed one ball and elected to do this. He was shooting at pocket 'A'. I think I may have cut the 10 towards my hole if I needed one. Not to make it, just to get it over there. Shannon was playing scared and was a little jumpy for some reason. And he only needed one ball.
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa1PQcb3Qcxt4eCCa4eBEp2eaXa2eXeP1kQcb4kDxN4kGrj4kbpu4kTvN@[/CUETABLE]

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Actually, that's a pretty good shot from Shannon, especially if he left the CB behind the 2 & 9-balls, to where Corey couldn't see the 10-ball uptable. Since Corey needs all three, he knows Corey is going to have to open up all the balls, which gives Shannon lots of opportunities. I don't remember who won that game, but Shannon was a huge favorite from that position.

I can't tell if the 4-railer on the 9-ball is on or not. If so, a guy could shoot it 4 rails and try to stick the CB on the 2-ball. If the 9 winds up near pocket A, then the game is pretty much over.

I like Billy's shot too. Billy, why do you think it's better to leave the CB in the middle of the head rail, rather than leaving it more towards the corner pocket on B's side?

Doc

gulfportdoc said:

I don't remember who won that game, but Shannon was a huge favorite from that position.



Doc

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Doc,

After leading the game 7-2 for a while, Daulton lost the game.

This is mo' betta, fellas. This is why I lurk here.

gulfportdoc said:

Actually, that's a pretty good shot from Shannon, especially if he left the CB behind the 2 & 9-balls, to where Corey couldn't see the 10-ball uptable. Since Corey needs all three, he knows Corey is going to have to open up all the balls, which gives Shannon lots of opportunities. I don't remember who won that game, but Shannon was a huge favorite from that position.

I can't tell if the 4-railer on the 9-ball is on or not. If so, a guy could shoot it 4 rails and try to stick the CB on the 2-ball. If the 9 winds up near pocket A, then the game is pretty much over.

I like Billy's shot too. Billy, why do you think it's better to leave the CB in the middle of the head rail, rather than leaving it more towards the corner pocket on B's side?

Doc

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Doc, it's easier for your opponent to play a safe, and controll the cue ball when you reposition it toward the B side of the table. It's also easier for him to kick to the side rail in front of your pocket and play safe behind a ball that ends up near your pocket. And it's also easier for him to move balls away from your pocket and leave the cue ball from where he removes the problem ball. It's just a much more difficult position for your opponent to deal with. Position the balls and experiment with the two positions.

Skin said:

My shot. I won't vouch for the precison of the WEI lines but here is generally how it goes.

Use high right and the cb will delay after hitting the 9 and then take off again to strike the 2 (which is nudged out a bit by the 9) at the correct angle to make it, following it down to the rail - good in case the speed or the angle of the strike is a bit off. You just have to make sure the 9 takes the 10 uptable. The shot is dead, though, if you set up on it right.

Skin

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa1PKoa3Qcxt4VATV3VcIt4dDNY4dAfK3dEOj2daTe4eCCa4eDQk1eavp1kKoa4kCoF4kBaR3kQnk@[/CUETABLE]

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I see that Dennis said above in the thread that the 2 and 9 are separated. My shot is not on unless they are frozen. I need some WEI eyes to see these WEI tables properly.

There still might be a good angle to make the 2 from with them not frozen. If it is there, I think the 2 to win the game is the shot. Why not just go for the win if he has just handed it to you with bih and the shot is on?

I am in total agrreement with Billy's shot here. It is the least risky, and the most rewarding from that spot. I would have shot it within 2 seconds of Duell spotting his owed ball.

Center on the rail is better than player B's side of the table Doc, makes the removal of the 9 ball he's faced with much more awkward.

To lose the game from there, Shannon had to have been in a brain dead coma. Of course, there is one "master mover" who has not commited yet.

Skin said:

I see that Dennis said above in the thread that the 2 and 9 are separated. My shot is not on unless they are frozen. I need some WEI eyes to see these WEI tables properly.

There still might be a good angle to make the 2 from with them not frozen. If it is there, I think the 2 to win the game is the shot. Why not just go for the win if he has just handed it to you with bih and the shot is on?

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Skin,

He has "BIH behind the string". Spot shots are not gimmies are they ? Especially in close quarters. Would you smoke it or slow roll it ? Either way, if you miss, it could be your last shot.
The shot Shannon shot, would be a distant second choice (for me) behind Billy's shot.

This layout is from the same game, several shots later. Deuel still needs three and it's his shot. He banked the 4 and made it and then was faced with a choice of shooting the 9 or the 10 ball. I'm not sure what I would do there myself. I've shown what he did in this layout. There are 4 pages.

Would you shoot the 9 or the 10 after making the 4 ball?

P.S. I'm showing these shots from seeing them on my t.v. screen. They are very close to where the balls were.

Dick, just saw your comment to Skin. There was no spot shot available. Daulton probably was happy for that as he had just missed one a few shots previous to my original layout. And with no chance to sellout also.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2DIWI4IATY2JKbg3PRBq2XIWI2XGrl4XdOp3kRBq2kJLt2kOKj2kabv2kQDH@4DdOp4IATY2JKbg2PQDH@4DdOp4IATY2JKbg2PQDH2eKbg2eKSr4eRlh4eYlS2kQDH2kLxU2kOrm2kakG2kVKh@4DdOp4IATY4JYlS2PVKh@[/CUETABLE]

Cowboy Dennis said:

This layout is from the same game, several shots later. Deuel still needs three and it's his shot. He banked the 4 and made it and then was faced with a choice of shooting the 9 or the 10 ball. I'm not sure what I would do there myself. I've shown what he did in this layout. There are 4 pages.

Would you shoot the 9 or the 10 after making the 4 ball?

P.S. I'm showing these shots from seeing them on my t.v. screen. They are very close to where the balls were.

Dick, just saw your comment to Skin. There was no spot shot available. Daulton probably was happy for that as he had just missed one a few shots previous to my original layout. And with no chance to sellout also.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2DIWI4IATY2JKbg3PRBq2XIWI2XGrl4XdOp3kRBq2kJLt2kOKj2kabv2kQDH@4DdOp4IATY2JKbg2PQDH@4DdOp4IATY2JKbg2PQDH2eKbg2eKSr4eRlh4eYlS2kQDH2kLxU2kOrm2kakG2kVKh@4DdOp4IATY4JYlS2PVKh@[/CUETABLE]

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I always try to get in the one hole when possible, although I'm thinking Daulton didn't get the 10 ball very close.
Rod. <--- woulda had the 10 close on the WEI table.

Cowboy Dennis said:

This layout is from the same game, several shots later. Deuel still needs three and it's his shot. He banked the 4 and made it and then was faced with a choice of shooting the 9 or the 10 ball. I'm not sure what I would do there myself. I've shown what he did in this layout. There are 4 pages.

Would you shoot the 9 or the 10 after making the 4 ball?

P.S. I'm showing these shots from seeing them on my t.v. screen. They are very close to where the balls were.

Dick, just saw your comment to Skin. There was no spot shot available. Daulton probably was happy for that as he had just missed one a few shots previous to my original layout. And with no chance to sellout also.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2DIWI4IATY2JKbg3PRBq2XIWI2XGrl4XdOp3kRBq2kJLt2kOKj2kabv2kQDH@4DdOp4IATY2JKbg2PQDH@4DdOp4IATY2JKbg2PQDH2eKbg2eKSr4eRlh4eYlS2kQDH2kLxU2kOrm2kakG2kVKh@4DdOp4IATY4JYlS2PVKh@[/CUETABLE]

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shoot the ten next.

very close

very close

androd said:

I always try to get in the one hole when possible, although I'm thinking Daulton didn't get the 10 ball very close.
Rod. <--- woulda had the 10 close on the WEI table.

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This is a very close decision for just about any player, whether to bank the ten or shoot the nine. It's clear if your betting that you WILL run out from here, you bank the ten, reason being that in order to run out you need to bank the ten in either case.So you should bank it now when you have a perfect look at it, and from a distance that is not intimidating. But that's not the situation your confronted with is it? No, so what do you do? This is a very close call especially for a top player, because a top player will pocket the nine at least 3 out of 4 times, when a lesser player may only pocket the nine 2 out of 4 times. And like Rodney said, he likes to get into the one hole.If I were a player that would pocket the nine 2 out of 4 times or less, I would bank the ten. And as a top player, well depending on how I was feeling at that time would be what I would base my decision off of. Top players can win more games than lesser players when they need 2 balls to their opponents one. So they would be more inclined to bank the 10, especially if they feel that they will hit it good enough to either pocket the ball or hang it.
But for a top player it's a close call.

Oh, by the way if you bank the 10 you must hit it with pocket speed, because if missed you don't want to leave a return shot.

wincardona said:

This is a very close decision for just about any player, whether to bank the ten or shoot the nine. It's clear if your betting that you WILL run out from here, you bank the ten, reason being that in order to run out you need to bank the ten in either case.So you should bank it now when you have a perfect look at it, and from a distance that is not intimidating. But that's not the situation your confronted with is it? No, so what do you do? This is a very close call especially for a top player, because a top player will pocket the nine at least 3 out of 4 times, when a lesser player may only pocket the nine 2 out of 4 times. And like Rodney said, he likes to get into the one hole.If I were a player that would pocket the nine 2 out of 4 times or less, I would bank the ten. And as a top player, well depending on how I was feeling at that time would be what I would base my decision off of. Top players can win more games than lesser players when they need 2 balls to their opponents one. So they would be more inclined to bank the 10, especially if they feel that they will hit it good enough to either pocket the ball or hang it.
But for a top player it's a close call.

Oh, by the way if you bank the 10 you must hit it with pocket speed, because if missed you don't want to leave a return shot.

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Yes I agree, I was amazed how far Daulton missed the bank. When you page thru the layout Dennis put up, it shows where the bank on the 10 ball ended.
Rod. <--- has pocket speed if not much else.

androd said:

Yes I agree, I was amazed how far Daulton missed the bank. When you page thru the layout Dennis put up, it shows where the bank on the 10 ball ended.
Rod. <--- has pocket speed if not much else.

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Rod,

It was Deuel's turn at the table. He made the first bank but then missed the other as I showed. He needed all three and won the game anyway.

P.S. Are we all going to be seeing some curvy shots from you soon?



Dennis.

Cowboy Dennis said:

Rod,

It was Deuel's turn at the table. He made the first bank but then missed the other as I showed. He needed all three and won the game anyway.

P.S. Are we all going to be seeing some curvy shots from you soon?



Dennis.

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OOPS, Well I don't know how he missed it that far either, but if he wasn't playing one pocket at that time, maybe pocket speed got in his way.
Rod. < ---i'm thinking about curving one, now that I know how, thanks.

SJDinPHX said:

Of course, there is one "master mover" who has not commited yet.

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What is it that makes you think he should be committed? I'm waiting on another truckload of Miller Lite, but I think wincardona's shot is the nuts.