Perfect one pocket

darmoose · Aug 26, 2014

Is there such a thing? Does it mean to never give your opponent an offensive shot? I have never seen Artie B. play, and there are no videos available, so, I probably never will. But listening to his stories, I and many others are intrigued by his claims of being the most knowledgeable one pocket player ever.

In recent posts Artie has given us clues to his strategies as well as reasons why he went about his craft as he did (more or less incognito).

Without wishing to oversimplify. it seems, to me at least, that defense was his secret. Because he would play long "take no risks" games, trying to break down and frustrate his opponent, he had to hide his identity because people didn't want to get tangled up with him if they knew who he was and his reputation. He would try to get money froze upfront to avoid players quitting on him.

As a fairly defensive player myself, I am familiar with some of the problems. People say the games take too long, shoot at your hole will ya. If you win they quit, and so on.

So, here are some questions I have

Is all out defensive one pocket perfect one pocket?
If so, why are our best modern day players going in the opposite direction?
Is this style even more boring than some think the game is already?
If Artie writes a book should we all become more defensive players?
What happens if we all start playing like this?
Is the answer to the $30,000 challenge "Don't give up any offensive shots, and don't make any mistakes"?

Just wondering

tylerdurden · Aug 27, 2014

More recently, I tend to think the opposite. If you want to get better at one pocket, you are going to have to be more aggressive. An analogy would be to take a tough par 3 in golf where there is a big danger zone to the left right near the flag stick. If you got a bunch of guys playing this hole, lowest scores move on, you gotta get aggressive and shoot at the flag stick. You just have to go for it and be good enough to pull it off or you are going to be swallowed up. That's how I see it, in other words, almost every player should be looking to be more aggressive if he truly wants to reach a top level. This also comes with other advantages even if you aren't executing the aggressive shots imo.

Let's all ask ourselves this. How many times have you past up a shot you will make 60% of the time, and if you make it you will win the game. All of us have done this so many times. If you are playing an equally talented player, you gotta shoot there.... you're the current favorite, and you gotta take your shot and win the game. This is not as true when talking about weaker players because they get so many opportunities it doesn't matter, but with strong opponents this is how you must be thinking to keep progressing imo. How many times have we seen guys pass up spot shots is a great example btw. What you are also doing when you pass up shots is you are putting more pressure on your defense. Sooner or later it will crumble and that shot you had at the game is now gone never to return......

That is the other thing to think about - the % in your execution of defense. If you shoot 30 defensive shots, it only takes you to be off by a couple of inches one time and the guy has a shot and now he wins the game. I really think this, in combination with things discussed above, is why we see shooters winning all the one pocket tournaments. Cmon, guys..... don't you think we'd see a total squeezer get deep into tournaments every now and again if this was an effective style? There is a great match of gentile vs alex on youtube. It goes hill hill and alex leaves chris a long shot to win the game..... chris takes the shot and knocks it in the middle of the pocket and wins the match. THAT is how you have to think to be a good/top one pocket player imo.

At the 56:00 min mark.... this is what you gotta be doing to be playing winning one pocket.....

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfxoHGn1DQY[/ame]

One Pocket Ghost · Aug 27, 2014

tylerdurden said:
More recently, I tend to think the opposite. If you want to get better at one pocket, you are going to have to be more aggressive. An analogy would be to take a tough par 3 in golf where there is a big danger zone to the left right near the flag stick. If you got a bunch of guys playing this hole, lowest scores move on, you gotta get aggressive and shoot at the flag stick. You just have to go for it and be good enough to pull it off or you are going to be swallowed up. That's how I see it, in other words, almost every player should be looking to be more aggressive if he truly wants to reach a top level. This also comes with other advantages even if you aren't executing the aggressive shots imo.

Let's all ask ourselves this. How many times have you past up a shot you will make 60% of the time, and if you make it you will win the game. All of us have done this so many times. If you are playing an equally talented player, you gotta shoot there.... you're the current favorite, and you gotta take your shot and win the game. This is not as true when talking about weaker players because they get so many opportunities it doesn't matter, but with strong opponents this is how you must be thinking to keep progressing imo. How many times have we seen guys pass up spot shots is a great example btw. What you are also doing when you pass up shots is you are putting more pressure on your defense. Sooner or later it will crumble and that shot you had at the game is now gone never to return......

That is the other thing to think about - the % in your execution of defense. If you shoot 30 defensive shots, it only takes you to be off by a couple of inches one time and the guy has a shot and now he wins the game. I really think this, in combination with things discussed above, is why we see shooters winning all the one pocket tournaments. Cmon, guys..... don't you think we'd see a total squeezer get deep into tournaments every now and again if this was an effective style? There is a great match of gentile vs alex on youtube. It goes hill hill and alex leaves chris a long shot to win the game..... chris takes the shot and knocks it in the middle of the pocket and wins the match. THAT is how you have to think to be a good/top one pocket player imo.

At the 56:00 min mark.... this is what you gotta be doing to be playing winning one pocket.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfxoHGn1DQY

Not so fast Tyler...

Ironically, the very situation in this video that you are using to prove your point - as well as proving it, also disproves your point...

Yes, as you said, at the 56.00 point Chris chooses offense - shoots the long shot, makes it and goes on to win the game as a result of his offensive choice...

But conversely...at the 55.40 point in the video Alex, after thinking about it, doesn't play one of the effective safeties available to him, and also chooses offense by shooting the straight back bank-shot - he misses the bank and sells out to Chris - thus losing the game as a result of choosing to be aggressive and shoot the offensive shot.

- Ghost

tylerdurden · Aug 27, 2014

One Pocket Ghost said:
Not so fast Tyler...

Ironically, the very situation in this video that you are using to prove your point - as well as proving it, also disproves your point...

Yes, as you said, at the 56.00 point Chris chooses offense - shoots the long shot, makes it and goes on to win the game as a result of his offensive choice...

But conversely...at the 55.40 point in the video Alex, after thinking about it, doesn't play one of the effective safeties available to him, and also chooses offense by shooting the straight back bank-shot - he misses the bank and sells out to Chris - thus losing the game as a result of choosing to be aggressive and shoot the offensive shot.

- Ghost

Alex isn't shooting at that he's moving a ball toward his hole trying to get Chris on the end rail thinking he won't shoot from there. Operative word being he's "moving". Also note that Alex lost thinking his opponent wouldn't shoot, so don't tell me this example can be used against me. That is off. I will argue vehemently if this game went on Alex has a greater and greater chance to win even though gentile May be (?) the better mover. The reason that's true is Alex has more tools or shots available to him that he's liable to knock right in, so Chris better damn well be ready to shoot when he gets a shot. And he was, no hesitation.

The point in the video is lost because truth is we can both come up with examples of guys losing shooting conservative/aggressive shots.

Let's then work off the other point I brought up ghost. If moving is so strong how come every single time the shooters are the ones who make it to the end of tournaments? Why aren't there guys who bunt and squeeze and freeze the guy to balls/rails every shot ever winning?

NH Steve · Aug 27, 2014

Play to your strengths

Play to your strengths

I think another answer is to play your absolute best, you need to play to your strengths -- the super offensive style is not going to work if you are not a great offensive player. Likewise, if you are a shooter, not a mover, you aren't going to win as many moving battles.

Every sport is a combination of offense and defense that tend to be self-regulating in the way they balance each other out -- remember the Yogi Berra saying, "Good pitching always beats good hitting, and vice versa."

That's the way it is and always will be

Skin · Aug 27, 2014

I don't think Artie ever talked about perfect one pocket. He talked about mistake-free one pocket. He got misinterpreted a lot on that.

Anyway, what I gathered from what he wrote was his goal was to choose the "correct" shot - of which he said there is only one - every time and execute it. He said one of his great pleasures was finishing a game knowing he had not made a single mistake.

He also claimed that nobody now (or then really) knows (knew) how to play the game correctly - or at least doesn't (didn't) play it correctly. That's the reason he said he would always get stronger as time went on and his opponent would get weaker. Thus, his strategy of playing six ahead.

Maybe I have some or all of that wrong. It's certainly possible. It's not always easy to figure out what he is saying or even who he is saying it to!

Skin

mr3cushion · Aug 27, 2014

Let ME ask on BIG important question.

If Artie ONLY played, "squeeze" style one pocket, how and the hell did He EVER get the amount of balls He needed to WIN ANY game?

Like I've said MANY times on here, NO ONE, except Freddy has seen Him play, MORE than ME! He has a completely different mind set and concept about one pocket than ANY other player! His reasoning's for certain situations that arise in a game, remind you of a chess "Grand Master" thinking MANY moves in advance, NOT just 1 or 2!

Much like Dr. Bill, Artie plays a "percentage" style game, but, putting with MUCH MORE thought into forcing His opponent to continually make costly mistakes! This was quite evident when He played, "shooters," like, Jimmy Reid and Cole Dickson! But, where He REALLY shined is playing players that consider themselves, "movers." He tortured these types of players, knowing they could NEVER keep pace with Him in that department! And, also, He didn't worry too much about them running out!

Several people here, mostly persons that have NEVER seen Artie play, make the assumptions that He couldn't, "run balls or bank!" When Artie got the shot, with the style of game He played, RAN THE BALLS AS GOOD AS ANYONE! Because of the style of play He had, HE always started out with the CORRECT EASY shot, (remember the chess thing) to run 8 and out! Nothing fancy, just easy simple shots, inside below the side pocket. I've seen it more times than I can count, TOP players, in a trance, when they got through playing Artie, shell-shocked!

darmoose · Aug 27, 2014

Skin said:
I don't think Artie ever talked about perfect one pocket. He talked about mistake-free one pocket. He got misinterpreted a lot on that.

Anyway, what I gathered from what he wrote was his goal was to choose the "correct" shot - of which he said there is only one - every time and execute it. He said one of his great pleasures was finishing a game knowing he had not made a single mistake.

He also claimed that nobody now (or then really) knows (knew) how to play the game correctly - or at least doesn't (didn't) play it correctly. That's the reason he said he would always get stronger as time went on and his opponent would get weaker. Thus, his strategy of playing six ahead.

Maybe I have some or all of that wrong. It's certainly possible. It's not always easy to figure out what he is saying or even who he is saying it to!

Skin

You are correct that at least on this forum Artie hasn't claimed to have played perfect one pocket, it was Bill Smith who referred to perfect one pocket and Artie, and equated it to mistake free one pocket. Neither did I say that Artie talked about having played perfect one pocket. Artie does talk about mistake free one pocket, which his friend and supporter, Bill Smith equated to perfect one pocket.

I think after having given it some thought, that Artie's goal of always playing the "correct shot" of which there is only one, is at the very least not believable. One pocket players, whatever else they are, are only Human, and make mistakes. For Artie to play mistake free, I guess would mean he never took any risk no matter how small, whether on an offensive shot or a defensive shot.

I have to wonder on a risk/reward analysis basis, just how confident did Artie have to be in his ability to execute a shot (70%, 80%, 90%) before he would shoot it. Of course 100% would be necessary to never make a mistake, wouldn't it?

What would Artie have said as an analyst about Gentile's shot referred to in Tyler's post, prior to him making the shot? Was it the "correct" shot (it certainly was far less than 100%), and what about Alex's shot just prior, would Artie have called that leave a mistake before Gentile knocked it in?

So much of what we think about a given shot depends on what the other guy does with it. It can be night or day. I have come to believe that mistake free one pocket is highly improbable if not impossible.

And so, Artie's story presents an enigma, a puzzle that is exacerbated by not being able to see, first hand, him play mistake free one pocket. Does anybody today want to emulate that style of play?

Cary · Aug 27, 2014

Offense sells tickets, defense wins championships.

The Gentile-Pagulyan match stands out in my memory for the defensive play in the early part of the match and the final game in particular. Alex (at least it appeared to me) became extremely frustrated and his game came apart.

PS. My wife was very impressed with Alex. Thinks he's cute.

PSS. She has a framed tee shirt autographed by both Chris and Alex at this match.

Skin · Aug 27, 2014

darmoose said:
I think after having given it some thought, that Artie's goal of always playing the "correct shot" of which there is only one, is at the very least not believable. One pocket players, whatever else they are, are only Human, and make mistakes. For Artie to play mistake free, I guess would mean he never took any risk no matter how small, whether on an offensive shot or a defensive shot.

I have to wonder on a risk/reward analysis basis, just how confident did Artie have to be in his ability to execute a shot (70%, 80%, 90%) before he would shoot it. Of course 100% would be necessary to never make a mistake, wouldn't it?

I tried to be careful about emphasizing "choosing" the correct shot as the mistake-free component, but maybe I butchered that. I recall Artie writing that everybody misses in their execution, but playing mistake-free is the mental part of the game, choosing the correct shot.

I am not positioning myself to defend anything Artie said, nor to criticize it. I certainly am not getting into any of the flaming that easily ignites between guys who post here. I just want to relay what I remember from what I read in Artie's posts. Of course, the record still exists on this site for anybody who wants to see his actual words so they can interpret for themself. They only have to spend some time doing a search of his posts.

Skin

lfigueroa · Aug 27, 2014

darmoose said:
Is there such a thing? Does it mean to never give your opponent an offensive shot? I have never seen Artie B. play, and there are no videos available, so, I probably never will. But listening to his stories, I and many others are intrigued by his claims of being the most knowledgeable one pocket player ever.

In recent posts Artie has given us clues to his strategies as well as reasons why he went about his craft as he did (more or less incognito).

Without wishing to oversimplify. it seems, to me at least, that defense was his secret. Because he would play long "take no risks" games, trying to break down and frustrate his opponent, he had to hide his identity because people didn't want to get tangled up with him if they knew who he was and his reputation. He would try to get money froze upfront to avoid players quitting on him.

As a fairly defensive player myself, I am familiar with some of the problems. People say the games take too long, shoot at your hole will ya. If you win they quit, and so on.

So, here are some questions I have

Is all out defensive one pocket perfect one pocket?
If so, why are our best modern day players going in the opposite direction?
Is this style even more boring than some think the game is already?
If Artie writes a book should we all become more defensive players?
What happens if we all start playing like this?
Is the answer to the $30,000 challenge "Don't give up any offensive shots, and don't make any mistakes"?

Just wondering

Perfect or mistake-free 1pocket is different for every player because every player brings a different skill set to the table. What might be perfect for me is probably not perfect for you, whether it’s because you’re a better banker, better playing caroms, have better speed control, or just shoot straighter. IOW, what is perfect for Efren is not perfect for everyone.

Lou Figueroa

mr3cushion · Aug 27, 2014

Cary said:
Offense sells tickets, defense wins championships.

The Gentile-Pagulyan match stands out in my memory for the defensive play in the early part of the match and the final game in particular. Alex (at least it appeared to me) became extremely frustrated and his game came apart.

PS. My wife was very impressed with Alex. Thinks he's cute.

PSS. She has a framed tee shirt autographed by both Chris and Alex at this match.

"Offense sells tickets, defense wins championships."

Excellent analogy of the, "Gunslinger vs Hustler!"

Scrzbill · Aug 27, 2014

All I know is what John used to say to me when I took a flyer, "Kentuckys mad at his money again!."

Henry · Aug 27, 2014

Artie what a fascinating subject. My contention is Artie is a genius an individual that comes along and sees things so differently that people watched him win and even practice and not comprehend what he did to achieve the success he did. The bottom line with Artie is one pocket was a means to get the money. We can not separate the two because they are intertwined. Artie was a genius pool hustler and also a genius at other things. I mean who beats Vegas? I have read a lot of the posts the posts on and about Artie on this forum and there is a ton of information on how he approaches things and I am convinced his game was almost all offence but not in the sense most players define offence. The story of him and Nick Varner was pure Artie the pool hustler. Losing 17 games in a row and coming out of the game knowing he had the nuts when they played again not thinking knowing. This was an offensive move and he was thinking big picture and how to win the most money. When they played the next time Artie had figured out how to beat Nick and adjusted knowing Nick would keep on playing the same way he did before I mean why would he change he won 17 in a row. The trap was so strong that when Nick woke up he could not quit. In Arties mind when he was losing he was playing offence.

Does anyone on the forum think this guy can't spell or can't figure out how to use spell check. It is all and illusion with Artie and he is still hustling. You have to really slow down and focus to read one of Artie's posts they force you to think.

I have not posted much in the past but I hope to participate more in the future. This is a great form and Freddy was a great loss as I could always relate to Freddy.

mr3cushion · Aug 27, 2014

henry said:
artie what a fascinating subject. My contention is artie is a genius an individual that comes along and sees things so differently that people watched him win and even practice and not comprehend what he did to achieve the success he did. The bottom line with artie is one pocket was a means to get the money. We can not separate the two because they are intertwined. Artie was a genius pool hustler and also a genius at other things. I mean who beats vegas? I have read a lot of the posts the posts on and about artie on this forum and there is a ton of information on how he approaches things and i am convinced his game was almost all offence but not in the sense most players define offence. The story of him and nick varner was pure artie the pool hustler. Losing 17 games in a row and coming out of the game knowing he had the nuts when they played again not thinking knowing. This was an offensive move and he was thinking big picture and how to win the most money. When they played the next time artie had figured out how to beat nick and adjusted knowing nick would keep on playing the same way he did before i mean why would he change he won 17 in a row. The trap was so strong that when nick woke up he could not quit. In arties mind when he was losing he was playing offence.

Does anyone on the forum think this guy can't spell or can't figure out how to use spell check. It is all and illusion with artie and he is still hustling. You have to really slow down and focus to read one of artie's posts they force you to think.

I have not posted much in the past but i hope to participate more in the future. This is a great form and freddy was a great loss as i could always relate to freddy.

Amen Brother!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cory in dc · Aug 27, 2014

tylerdurden said:
More recently, I tend to think the opposite. If you want to get better at one pocket, you are going to have to be more aggressive. An analogy would be to take a tough par 3 in golf where there is a big danger zone to the left right near the flag stick. If you got a bunch of guys playing this hole, lowest scores move on, you gotta get aggressive and shoot at the flag stick. You just have to go for it and be good enough to pull it off or you are going to be swallowed up. That's how I see it, in other words, almost every player should be looking to be more aggressive if he truly wants to reach a top level. This also comes with other advantages even if you aren't executing the aggressive shots imo.

Let's all ask ourselves this. How many times have you past up a shot you will make 60% of the time, and if you make it you will win the game. All of us have done this so many times. If you are playing an equally talented player, you gotta shoot there.... you're the current favorite, and you gotta take your shot and win the game. This is not as true when talking about weaker players because they get so many opportunities it doesn't matter, but with strong opponents this is how you must be thinking to keep progressing imo. How many times have we seen guys pass up spot shots is a great example btw. What you are also doing when you pass up shots is you are putting more pressure on your defense. Sooner or later it will crumble and that shot you had at the game is now gone never to return......

That is the other thing to think about - the % in your execution of defense. If you shoot 30 defensive shots, it only takes you to be off by a couple of inches one time and the guy has a shot and now he wins the game. I really think this, in combination with things discussed above, is why we see shooters winning all the one pocket tournaments. Cmon, guys..... don't you think we'd see a total squeezer get deep into tournaments every now and again if this was an effective style? There is a great match of gentile vs alex on youtube. It goes hill hill and alex leaves chris a long shot to win the game..... chris takes the shot and knocks it in the middle of the pocket and wins the match. THAT is how you have to think to be a good/top one pocket player imo.

At the 56:00 min mark.... this is what you gotta be doing to be playing winning one pocket.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfxoHGn1DQY

This is a good example to keep in mind, especially because Gentile is usually considered an example of a "squeezer".

darmoose · Aug 27, 2014

Henry said:
Artie what a fascinating subject. My contention is Artie is a genius an individual that comes along and sees things so differently that people watched him win and even practice and not comprehend what he did to achieve the success he did. The bottom line with Artie is one pocket was a means to get the money. We can not separate the two because they are intertwined. Artie was a genius pool hustler and also a genius at other things. I mean who beats Vegas? I have read a lot of the posts the posts on and about Artie on this forum and there is a ton of information on how he approaches things and I am convinced his game was almost all offence but not in the sense most players define offence. The story of him and Nick Varner was pure Artie the pool hustler. Losing 17 games in a row and coming out of the game knowing he had the nuts when they played again not thinking knowing. This was an offensive move and he was thinking big picture and how to win the most money. When they played the next time Artie had figured out how to beat Nick and adjusted knowing Nick would keep on playing the same way he did before I mean why would he change he won 17 in a row. The trap was so strong that when Nick woke up he could not quit. In Arties mind when he was losing he was playing offence.

Does anyone on the forum think this guy can't spell or can't figure out how to use spell check. It is all and illusion with Artie and he is still hustling. You have to really slow down and focus to read one of Artie's posts they force you to think.

I have not posted much in the past but I hope to participate more in the future. This is a great form and Freddy was a great loss as I could always relate to Freddy.

Henry

While I believe I understand what you mean about Artie's story with Varner being all offense, you are referring to his strategy of laying down the lemon to get the most out of Varner later, not his game play once the trap is set.

After all, when Cory said on here "Offense sells tickets and Defense wins championships", Artie's friend and promoter, Bill Smith made the analogy of Gunslinger vs Hustler. Clearly, he was touting Artie's defensive skills ,as he has never called Artie a gunslinger, but rather a hustler on this forum.

If you are right about Artie's spelling, and I believe you could be, then we are all being hustled, but to what end? Is this about some sorta book promo? I dunno, but it seems unlikely to me.

Meanwhile, in spite of Bill Smiths protestations, I believe his notion of Perfect One Pocket or mistake free play by Artie boils down to defense, perhaps taken to a level that no one else has attempted. I mean who else would be upset that his opponent made one ball in five games, I ask you?

mr3cushion · Aug 27, 2014

darmoose said:
Henry

While I believe I understand what you mean about Artie's story with Varner being all offense, you are referring to his strategy of laying down the lemon to get the most out of Varner later, not his game play once the trap is set.

After all, when Cory said on here "Offense sells tickets and Defense wins championships", Artie's friend and promoter, Bill Smith made the analogy of Gunslinger vs Hustler. Clearly, he was touting Artie's defensive skills ,as he has never called Artie a gunslinger, but rather a hustler on this forum.

If you are right about Artie's spelling, and I believe you could be, then we are all being hustled, but to what end? Is this about some sorta book promo? I dunno, but it seems unlikely to me.

Meanwhile, in spite of Bill Smiths protestations, I believe his notion of Perfect One Pocket or mistake free play by Artie boils down to defense, perhaps taken to a level that no one else has attempted. I mean who else would be upset that his opponent made one ball in five games, I ask you?

PLEASE EVERYONE, DON'T take MY word it, there are MANY players still with us that can attest to Artie's play! I urge you, search them out, it's always best to get more than one side of the story! But, PLEASE, TRY TO GET FIRST HAND, information, there too much SECOND hand hearsay around as it is!

Henry · Aug 27, 2014

darmoose said:
Henry

While I believe I understand what you mean about Artie's story with Varner being all offense, you are referring to his strategy of laying down the lemon to get the most out of Varner later, not his game play once the trap is set.

After all, when Cory said on here "Offense sells tickets and Defense wins championships", Artie's friend and promoter, Bill Smith made the analogy of Gunslinger vs Hustler. Clearly, he was touting Artie's defensive skills ,as he has never called Artie a gunslinger, but rather a hustler on this forum.

If you are right about Artie's spelling, and I believe you could be, then we are all being hustled, but to what end? Is this about some sorta book promo? I dunno, but it seems unlikely to me.

Meanwhile, in spite of Bill Smiths protestations, I believe his notion of Perfect One Pocket or mistake free play by Artie boils down to defense, perhaps taken to a level that no one else has attempted. I mean who else would be upset that his opponent made one ball in five games, I ask you?

This is just speculation on my part as I don't know Artie but I have read his posts. I knew Ronnie Allen quite well and believe it or not I think at a certain level Artie and Ronnie thought the same way they both wanted control of the game and put the pressure on the other guy while they played pressure free.
By the way that is exactly what Mosconi thought about it. It is in his book

The question is if one player is under pressure and the other is not who is on defense and who is on offence?

What I was trying to say is Artie was always on offense because offence and defense is a state of mind. and even in his game he was on offence because his goal was to put the opponent on defense and shoot the shots he wanted them to shoot. In other words control the game. If you are choosing your shots and the opponents shots you are on offence and he is on defense. What this amounts to is a different concept of offence and defense but it is a concept that is in play at the highest levels of any competition. Now this is a concept I can grasp but can not do at the level I am at but I do have glimpses of it and can see what it means. As far as his spelling goes I would like to think it is mostly a way to get people to slow down and think a way of getting us to pay attention because and if you don't do that you won't get anything out of what he says. I think Artie wants to pass on what he knows and also understands he won't reach many. If someone who thinks spelling is a sign of intelligence and thinks they are smarter than him then they will get what they deserve nothing. It may be a way of getting people to underestimate him. This is speculation on my part. What I do know is if you are going to try and understand Artie at all or learn from him you have to think out of the box because he does think differently and goes in to everything he talks about at great depth. Artie is totally self educated and he has figured out what works and that is all he is interested in. I am a big fan of self education. And that is what I love about One Pocket I never stop learning.

As far as perfect one pocket or mistake free one pocket we can only judge that by the level we are at so the right shot today may not be the right shot next week if we evolve. I have played mistake free one pocket at my level of understanding and that is all I can do win or lose. Playing mistake free one pocket at what ever level you are at is much easier that never missing a ball. With these 4" pockets everyone misses. Do not confuse mistake free with perfect execution as Artie says execution comes and goes. We have total control over the decision making process and if we make the right decision every time at the level we are at that is mistake free one pocket. Now someone at a higher level may say we shot the wrong shot and they are wrong because they are not at our level and we can not be expected to think at a higher level than we are at.

lfigueroa · Aug 27, 2014

One thing that is important to keep in mind during these discussions -- about how any particular player is capable of "perfect" or mistake-free" 1pocket -- is how the game has changed since the heyday of some players. Back, 50, 60 years ago, 1pocket was something of a black art. A hustlers game, perhaps only popular in certain rooms, particular parts of the country.

But the game has evolved over the years. Shots that used to be considered hyper-aggressive are now just par for the course. On many shots that used to be safety shots, many more players have now learned how to shoot them as two-way shots that are both defensive and offensive.

  I think there are at least four reasons for this: First, Ronnie Allen exploited an aggressive, move everything to your side style of play that became successful and more fashionable, ala Scott.

Second, Efren came to this country and raised the bar for pool playing in general. It went from just kicking at a ball to make contact, to kicking to hit a particular side of the ball, with a particular speed, to achieve a particular outcome.

Third, Accu-Stats came along and people could see how the shots were played and listen to the expert commentary by guys like Grady and Billy, and a host of others. You could watch any particular shot and debate it's ramifications, and replay it over and over until you understood how to do it yourself. Ronnie Allen once said of this phenomenon, “Shots it took me 15 years to learn, 17 year old kids are shooting nowadays.”

And fourth, 1pocket became much more popular with more players interpreting the game. Consequently, the evolution of the game sped up and the general level of play rose.   IOW, it ain’t your mother’s 1pocket anymore and what might have been considered "perfect" or "mistake-free" 1pocket long, long ago is just standard fare nowadays.

Lou Figueroa

Perfect one pocket

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