Rules Variations Checklist

I think we are getting way off base with a ball off the table thing. It used to be an ob off the table was not even a foul, and if you also made a legal shot your inning would continue, '68 BCA 14-1 rules. Any tavern it costs you a quarter. Jumping a ball can launch a cb or an ob ball, plus other shots can. We need to stay on point for we are talking about pocketing an opponent's ball in their scoring pocket and launching the cb intentionally.
Greg has dominion over his tournaments and if he decides to alter this game rule then so be it. It is not changing the game of one pocket, just an alternative for his tournament. Just like scoring a ball on the break and then re-racking, it is his choice to do so. Whitey

Patrick Johnson said:

So far (I think):

- how to determine if a ball’s in/out of the kitchen
- If a ball is made on the break, what happens?
Both good questions in today's world of One Pocket.

- Would you allow a break where the cueball does not hit a rail?
You don't need this question -- the rules clearly say as long as ANY ball (cue ball or object ball) hits a rail, then it is a legal break

- What constitutes a foul when cue and object balls are very close (i.e. DCC says 45 degrees no foul)? Same w/frozen to cueball?
- 45 degree rule, or not.
These two are addressed by general pool rules -- personally I would not bother addressing them specifically for One Pocket


- 3 fouls -- if so, warning?
Clearly says that in the current rules, so the only question is when gambling, are you suspending that rule?

- CB fouls only? If so, two balls? path of moved ball? only when shooting?
- if playing cueball fouls only and you accidentally move a ball without it interfering w/play, does your opponent have the option to move it back or not, or must it be moved back to the original position w/no option?
These are things we might want to address in future re-writes of our One Pocket rules -- especially if two or more balls are moved -- because the general rules are not totally clear on this: http://wpapool.com/rule-regulations/#Cue-ball-fouls-only

- Touch CB with hand while spotting balls?
I don't see that addressed either in our rules or the general rules. But my opinion has always been that when you are spotting a ball you are acting in the capacity of a referee, so it is NOT A FOUL. Likewise if you are removing a ball or balls from a pocket to make room, and you bump a ball (even if it is the cue ball) next to your hole -- no foul, just restore the balls.

- Drop chalk and it hits CB?
Foul by general rules (you are responsible for your clothing and equipment).

- Frozen to rail called? (I guess everyone says yes to this one.)
Yup

- re-do shots when an argument happens.
Our rules suggest bringing in a neutral party to act as arbiter in the event of a disagreement -- assuming a ref is not available of course, because they would be the one if there is a ref.

- opponent gets to put balls back where he thinks they were.
Rules state they have the option of putting them back or leaving them. Players have to agree on location of the balls or see your previous question, lol

- opponent informs you before you shoot if you are going to break a rule.
Huh??? You lost me

- “stick the butt of the cue in between the cue ball and the rail rule” when the cue ball is frozen to the rail
YMCA

- What about jump cues?
Our rules are clear -- no jumping except with your playing cue -- don't even go there lol

- re-breaking if you make a ball on the break
See the top of your list

- Is an object ball knocked off the table a foul?
Yes, by today's rules -- no by many local area traditions. Ask if you want because some players feel strongly about this.


- what is an illegal or legally executed stack play intentional or corner play and just what the penalty is.
Our rules already address this -- except maybe we should clarify exactly what the penalty should be instead of letting the referee or other neutral party decide

pj
chgo

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It sounds like you are interested in rules. I am thinking we should be updating our rules and improving the writing wherever we can. I would be part of that, and I know Dennis 'Whitey' Young is also interested. Are you? It would be like a JOB, not a whole lot of fun!!

We have done the One Pocket rules thing for many years now and we keep getting back to why it is such a pure game. The people who dominate in the game simply play so well. They don't need gimmicks to win; they'll win regardless of the rules. It's us mere mortals who try to change the game because we see some advantage being possibly taken. If a guy has a great up table game then he's a slow player so we want to spot balls behind the line to speed up his game. If someone racks the balls perfectly and learns how to make a ball on the break then something must be wrong cause he is cheating somehow. Regarding jumping the the object ball off the table, well there's certain table locations you can't follow the cueball in behind the object ball and the only choice you have is to take it off the table. I do think some professionalism should be observed and warn spectators in the line of fire. You'll never see any of the above occur in gambling situations as they don't appeal to the professional player.

NH Steve said:

It sounds like you are interested in rules. I am thinking we should be updating our rules and improving the writing wherever we can. I would be part of that, and I know Dennis 'Whitey' Young is also interested. Are you? It would be like a JOB, not a whole lot of fun!!

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Steve, you gave an answer similar to this one a few times: "You don't need this question -- the rules clearly say..."

I think you may have overlooked Pat's original question, and just gotten into the spirit of the thing from seeing some other posts. Anyway, based on Pat's question, it doesn't matter much what the rules say.

"What would a pre-matchup checklist look like?"

- opponent informs you before you shoot if you are going to break a rule.
Huh??? You lost me

it means say your ball is over the line and you are going to shoot and your opponent waits and then tells you you fouled.

or you are one inch away from the object ball and he waits and tells you he heard a double click so you scratched. instead of giving you a warning and coming over to look and discuss it.

or if ball off table is a foul and you are jacked up going to knock one off he needs to tell you that is a foul and not after it happens.

this as i said is for gambling.

in a tournament all rules are published or they should not then be used.
and its fine to call any infraction on a person.

NH Steve said:

It sounds like you are interested in rules. I am thinking we should be updating our rules and improving the writing wherever we can. I would be part of that, and I know Dennis 'Whitey' Young is also interested. Are you? It would be like a JOB, not a whole lot of fun!!

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LSJohn said:

Steve, you gave an answer similar to this one a few times: "You don't need this question -- the rules clearly say..."

I think you may have overlooked Pat's original question, and just gotten into the spirit of the thing from seeing some other posts. Anyway, based on Pat's question, it doesn't matter much what the rules say.

"What would a pre-matchup checklist look like?"

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Yes, I asked which rules are most likely to cause disagreement.

But thanks for the answers, Steve. I don't know if I can be helpful with the rules, but I'm interested to hear what you have in mind.

pj
chgo

beatle said:

cue ball fouls only and only when shooting.

re-do shots when an argument happens.
opponent gets to put balls back where he thinks they were.

opponent informs you before you shoot if you are going to break a rule.

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“balls”? If you move two or more it’s a foul

NH Steve said:

It sounds like you are interested in rules. I am thinking we should be updating our rules and improving the writing wherever we can. I would be part of that, and I know Dennis 'Whitey' Young is also interested. Are you? It would be like a JOB, not a whole lot of fun!!

Click to expand...

I’ll try and remember to bring my laser to check it the balls are touching the line

First, rule changes aren't for bad players so they can beat everyone. I do not know where that came from. Make all the proposed changes we can, the top guys are still going to be at the top, i mean cmon. In fact, this is part of the point. Good, logical rule changes are never going to favor anyone. In fact i would argue good rule changes would favor better players!

Launching a ball off a pool table is the equivalent of a tennis player serving the ball into the bleachers, and then getting an advatage. Why would you want to keep that around? I think it would do people well to drop all predelictions and emotion they have about the game, and try to objectively sit down quietly and actually think about these things. As it stands, prople are too clouded. This is the same reason they dont let cops work on murder cases involving their own family; because they are just too biased and everyone knows they cant rationally come to the proper conclusions.

Greg obviously seems to have done this, and i think he has come to a good conclusion: professional pool players launching pool balls off thr playing surface on purpose, and the rules currently dictate the player is not enough punished for it.

Maybe i am reading too much between the lines, but i think patrick's list was pretty good.

His list was long! And it was legit, meaning that is a lot of crap for every. single. person. who ever steps up to the table to play angame of one pocket to have to deal with.

Why not try and standardize those situations he brought up, and others. Why base or edge of the ball? Why not consistent in every. single tournament and in the official rules. Then, that would trickle down to poolrooms like Reagan economics.

bump and follow isnt a scratch and the player wins. it is just an illegal shot on purpose.
opponent can leave it count

beatle said:

bump and follow isnt a scratch and the player wins. it is just an illegal shot on purpose.
opponent can leave it count

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LOL.... brain fart I guess. Just played an 8 ball tourney this last weekend my age is starting to show

beatle said:

bump and follow isnt a scratch and the player wins. it is just an illegal shot on purpose.
opponent can leave it count

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Beatle so if someone pockets a ball and fouls, pocketed ball counts and lose of turn?

beatle said:

bump and follow isnt a scratch and the player wins. it is just an illegal shot on purpose.
opponent can leave it count

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Thanks Beatle found it in the .org rules

6.2 Any scratch or foul results in the end of the shooter’s inning, as well as a standard one ball penalty. All balls pocketed in the shooter’s pocket as a result of a stroke that includes a foul do not count for the shooting player and are to be immediately spotted, along with the standard one ball penalty. Also, any balls pocketed in the opponent’s pocket on a stroke that ends in either a pocket scratch or with the cue ball off the table are not to be counted for the opponent, and are to be immediately spotted. However, on a stroke when any other foul is committed (such as a push shot, double-hit or illegal ball contact), any balls scored into the opponent’s pocket are to stay down and be counted for the opponent.

El Chapo said:

Maybe i am reading too much between the lines, but i think patrick's list was pretty good.

His list was long! And it was legit, meaning that is a lot of crap for every. single. person. who ever steps up to the table to play angame of one pocket to have to deal with.

Click to expand...

To be fair, it's not my list. It's the list of suggestions made by others in the thread - I just consolidated it from all the posts for easy reading.

pj
chgo