Can you freeze the cue ball will BIH?

sneakynito

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This question popped into my head last night.
Lets say you have ball in hand and are playing base of the ball, so the 3 ball below is in play.
Since you can legally shoot through a ball, can you freeze the cue ball to the 3 and shoot through it?

 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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No, it is illegal to disturb a ball when placing the cue ball when you have ball in hand. By putting the cb frozen to the ob ball it thus makes contact and the ob is disturbed.

Excellent question and scenario! thanks, Whitey
 

NH Steve

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As I remember you can't freeze to the CB, although if you touch it's no foul as you're acting as referee.

If you are spotting an object ball on the spot then exactly as you say, you are acting as referee in placing the spotted balls, so even if the cue ball is near the spot, it would not be a foul to accidentally contact it, and I also think you are right that you don't freeze the object ball to the cue ball when the cue ball interferes. But when you have ball in hand I think it is horse of a different color, and I believe it is indeed a foul if you accidentally (or on purpose lol) contact an object ball with the cue ball when you are placing it or even just thinking about placing it in a B-I-H situation, and you happen to touch an object ball with the cue ball. At least that is the way I am used to playing.

I just looked at the world rules and didn't find anything about this though.
 

androd

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If you are spotting an object ball on the spot then exactly as you say, you are acting as referee in placing the spotted balls, so even if the cue ball is near the spot, it would not be a foul to accidentally contact it, and I also think you are right that you don't freeze the object ball to the cue ball when the cue ball interferes. But when you have ball in hand I think it is horse of a different color, and I believe it is indeed a foul if you accidentally (or on purpose lol) contact an object ball with the cue ball when you are placing it or even just thinking about placing it in a B-I-H situation, and you happen to touch an object ball with the cue ball. At least that is the way I am used to playing.

I just looked at the world rules and didn't find anything about this though.

What you say makes sense, I was sort of generalizing. Is that an oxymoron?
 

Frank Almanza

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If you are spotting an object ball on the spot then exactly as you say, you are acting as referee in placing the spotted balls, so even if the cue ball is near the spot, it would not be a foul to accidentally contact it, and I also think you are right that you don't freeze the object ball to the cue ball when the cue ball interferes. But when you have ball in hand I think it is horse of a different color, and I believe it is indeed a foul if you accidentally (or on purpose lol) contact an object ball with the cue ball when you are placing it or even just thinking about placing it in a B-I-H situation, and you happen to touch an object ball with the cue ball. At least that is the way I am used to playing.

I just looked at the world rules and didn't find anything about this though.

I believe you're correct in that it's a foul. Touch an object ball with the cue ball and that would be considered your shot. Cue ball is always live.
 

sneakynito

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Thanks for the responses.
Looking like, yes, foul. That was my inclination but was just curious.

Question, i don't think i drank that much last night, but i could've sworn there was a long response somewhere below that referenced rule 6.something. And checking the rules that is where this subject lies.
I had noted it mentally to go read the full thing when i wasn't on my mobile, now the post is gone??? Am i crazy?
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Thanks for the responses.
Looking like, yes, foul. That was my inclination but was just curious.

Question, i don't think i drank that much last night, but i could've sworn there was a long response somewhere below that referenced rule 6.something. And checking the rules that is where this subject lies.
I had noted it mentally to go read the full thing when i wasn't on my mobile, now the post is gone??? Am i crazy?

I deleted my thread, because it was a bit much more than I wished to debate and I felt now was not the appropriate time. OnePocket.org rule 6.7 covers your scenario quite adequately. So you are ok, yes a post was deleted. Whitey
 

sneakynito

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I deleted my thread, because it was a bit much more than I wished to debate and I felt now was not the appropriate time. OnePocket.org rule 6.7 covers your scenario quite adequately. So you are ok, yes a post was deleted. Whitey
Ah ok, no problem. I didn't think you could delete whole posts. Previous forums i've used you could only edit and erase the text, so that's why i was confused.

Thanks for the response.
 

BrookelandBilly

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This question popped into my head last night.
Lets say you have ball in hand and are playing base of the ball, so the 3 ball below is in play.
Since you can legally shoot through a ball, can you freeze the cue ball to the 3 and shoot through it?


Why not shoot the eight into the one? You have more control of the cue ball even if the shot you diagramed wasn’t a foul.
 

baby huey

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Yes its a foul however the player coming in does not get ball in hand. That leads to another possible wwyd situation where you can trap your opponent.
 

sneakynito

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Pretty sure he's looking for a chance to get more than two balls.
yes thanks Frank. I probably could've thought of something better but just put down something quick where it might be a reasonable shot to shoot, if it were legal.

Yes its a foul however the player coming in does not get ball in hand. That leads to another possible wwyd situation where you can trap your opponent.
I'm not understanding.
Are you saying if a player does it, and then shoots it, it's a foul and the incoming player plays from where it lies and shooter owes a ball?
I was thinking it was a foul as soon as the player tried to spot the ball and touched another. And then he'd owe a ball and just hand the cue ball to his opponent for ball in hand.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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yes thanks Frank. I probably could've thought of something better but just put down something quick where it might be a reasonable shot to shoot, if it were legal.


I'm not understanding.
Are you saying if a player does it, and then shoots it, it's a foul and the incoming player plays from where it lies and shooter owes a ball?
I was thinking it was a foul as soon as the player tried to spot the ball and touched another. And then he'd owe a ball and just hand the cue ball to his opponent for ball in hand.

I agree, this is a ball in hand foul for the opponent. You just can not place the cue ball frozen to an object ball to intentionally except a foul, and then expect the opponent to shoot from this position. Definitely Ball in Hand for opponent.

But unfortunately 6.6 Touched Ball in WPA states it is a standard foul. Well the games WPA cover a standard foul in most games except straight pool (whereas it is just a loss of point), is ball in hand anywhere on the table. Therefore the 6.6 rule is vague for One Pocket for a standard foul in One Pocket is a loss of point, not ball in hand.

And WPA 1.5 Ball in Hand is not specific as this scenario being Ball in Hand for the opponent. WPA does not have game rules for One Pocket but does have game rules for 14.1 which plays with Ball in Hand behind the Line, but, there again they are not specific in game rules and thus reference back to general rules. Whitey
 

BrookelandBilly

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Pretty sure he's looking for a chance to get more than two balls.

That’s assuming you can control the speed of the cue ball. With the cue ball so close to the three there is a chance you can foul if you execute a push shot or lose control if you hit down on the cue ball and the three caroms off the hanger away from your pocket. Greed is not always good.
 

Frank Almanza

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That’s assuming you can control the speed of the cue ball. With the cue ball so close to the three there is a chance you can foul if you execute a push shot or lose control if you hit down on the cue ball and the three caroms off the hanger away from your pocket. Greed is not always good.

I believe a crafty cueist could freeze up against the object ball with an angle to throw the ball to his hole while taking the cue ball out to the middle of the table for the ball on the spot.
 
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