Shot clock

Hardmix · Jun 4, 2018

Just a thought....We could try using a phone for a timer. When you get done shooting and sit down you start the timer and alert your opponant when there is 15 seconds left. Yes it takes a little more effort but I think we would all agree the means justify the end.

ChicagoFats · Jun 4, 2018

Hardmix said:
Just a thought....We could try using a phone for a timer. When you get done shooting and sit down you start the timer and alert your opponant when there is 15 seconds left. Yes it takes a little more effort but I think we would all agree the means justify the end.

Chess clocks are used in chess and other two-player games where the players move in turn. The purpose is to keep track of the total time each player takes for his or her own moves, and ensure that neither player overly delays the game.
:heh

youngstown · Jun 4, 2018

Shot clock

IMO the easiest and most conventional solution is a 3W/2L race, but here’s another unconventional thought. Someone mentioned that the spirit of this is to meet people and hang out. There is a superb format for that, which would be a quadruple elimination qualifier bracket that runs Friday and Saturday. Then on Sunday we would have the single elimination finals bracket. This is a copy of the Schofield format that Gold Crown runs in Erie. The only thing is we would need to make the races for the qualifying rounds very short. For the undefeated, it’s a race to 2. Then If you are in the 1L maybe we make it sudden death one game. If you are in 2L, or 3L, then it’s definitely sudden death. Then the Sunday finals bracket (single elim) could be a race to 2, and even make the final match a race to 3. I’ve played in numerous tourneys with this format and it is fun, you get a lot of play, and the funny thing is, the best players still win, go figure.

youngstown · Jun 4, 2018

Shot clock

youngstownkid said:
here’s another unconventional thought...

I should mention that the tourneys I’ve played in that use this format is for 9b with 64 players. We do race to 4-3-2-2 for the qualifiers and those run from 11-7, like clockwork. Then we run a BNR contest, another Calcutta and the single elimination bracket is a race to 6 with 16 players which runs from 8 until about midnight, again like clockwork. I’m not a road player but I’ve been around - and this is the best run tourney I’ve ever played in.

jay helfert · Jun 4, 2018

Here's my take on things. A one minute shot clock is great for One Pocket with maybe two extensions per game. The problem remains who works the clock. One solution is that cheap kitchen type timers be brought for each table and the non shooting player sets the timer after his turn.

Second thing - the tournament did not start until after 4 PM on Friday. An earlier start would have allowed for at least one extra round of play on the first day. They also decided not to play the first round of the losers bracket that night and if they had it would have helped considerably on Saturday and Sunday. The explanation I got was that they wanted no one eliminated that night which makes sense in a longer tournament, but not here. What I observed is that the members are coming for the entire three days and playing among themselves when not in the tournament, so it would not have changed anything dramatically to play the first round Losers on Friday night. I know that if I had been eliminated earlier I would have played some private games with other members.

These two things above, if incorporated, would have probably allowed the event to end before Midnight on Sunday. Also, there was one very thoughtful and very slow player who went the distance, and all his matches were on the long side. He is a damn good player but perhaps a shot clock could be used at the the discretion of the TD for any seriously slow match.

My last recommendation that I have offered to Greg Sullivan on several occasions to solve the problems they have at DCC with their One Pocket event is the best one of all IMO. Grady started this many years ago and he called it the "Four Ball Rule" and it works! As soon as there are four balls (or more) above the head string, the ball nearest the end rail gets spotted. I know that purists will say this changes the game of One Pocket but I will dispute that assertion. You are still playing One Pocket and you will still use essentially the same strategy, with one more thing being taken into consideration. This eliminates the prolonged up table "wedge" style (and BORING) games and the tournament is sped up exponentially.

I've seen several events played in this format and believe me the best player will still win. A long game may take 45 minutes and not 90 minutes to two hours! You can now play races to three on both sides with no problems. That's my two cents on this subject.

Cory in dc · Jun 4, 2018

jay helfert said:
Here's my take on things. A one minute shot clock is great for One Pocket with maybe two extensions per game. The problem remains who works the clock. One solution is that cheap kitchen type timers be brought for each table and the non shooting player sets the timer after his turn.

Second thing - the tournament did not start until after 4 PM on Friday. An earlier start would have allowed for at least one extra round of play on the first day. They also decided not to play the first round of the losers bracket that night and if they had it would have helped considerably on Saturday and Sunday. The explanation I got was that they wanted no one eliminated that night which makes sense in a longer tournament, but not here. What I observed is that the members are coming for the entire three days and playing among themselves when not in the tournament, so it would not have changed anything dramatically to play the first round Losers on Friday night. I know that if I had been eliminated earlier I would have played some private games with other members.

These two things above, if incorporated, would have probably allowed the event to end before Midnight on Sunday. Also, there was one very thoughtful and very slow player who went the distance, and all his matches were on the long side. He is a damn good player but perhaps a shot clock could be used at the the discretion of the TD for any seriously slow match.

My last recommendation that I have offered to Greg Sullivan on several occasions to solve the problems they have at DCC with their One Pocket event is the best one of all IMO. Grady started this many years ago and he called it the "Four Ball Rule" and it works! As soon as there are four balls (or more) above the head string, the ball nearest the end rail gets spotted. I know that purists will say this changes the game of One Pocket but I will dispute that assertion. You are still playing One Pocket and you will still use essentially the same strategy, with one more thing being taken into consideration. This eliminates the prolonged up table "wedge" style (and BORING) games and the tournament is sped up exponentially.

I've seen several events played in this format and believe me the best player will still win. A long game may take 45 minutes and not 90 minutes to two hours! You can now play races to three on both sides with no problems. That's my two cents on this subject.

"One solution is that cheap kitchen type timers be brought for each table and the non shooting player sets the timer after his turn."

Jay -- That works for the incoming player's first shot. But a shot clock has to be reset after every shot.

If the round robin idea doesn't work, then I'd vote for the Four Ball Rule (FBR). Or even both.

I'd much prefer the FBR to races to 2. The FBR only affects a small number of games. Races to 2 affect every match in the losers side.

LSJohn · Jun 4, 2018

jay helfert said:
My last recommendation that I have offered to Greg Sullivan on several occasions to solve the problems they have at DCC with their One Pocket event is the best one of all IMO.

So you think the recommendation you've made several times is best?

Darn, I was thinking my recommendation was best and Cory thought his was best. Odd, ain't it?

jazznpool · Jun 4, 2018

mr3cushion said:
100% Agree about shot clock needed!!

I completely agree. There should be a 60 second time limit with a few 60 second extensions per game. Penalty should be a foul/ball.

Tobermory · Jun 4, 2018

Unless the time clock is the two clock device used in chess, where you make your move and hit the clock to start the other guy's clock running, the time clock idea would be impossible to manage. Using a chess clock, maybe, but how do you decide the right amount of time for each player? Some matches go hill hill and just take longer than a white wash match. Do you average based on 5 games (in a best to 3 format), or....? How many minutes allowed per game? Two players who play a highly technical and defensive style of play will take longer to finish games because they aren't shooting at their hole as often. Do we really want to force them to be more offensive minded? I don't think so.

The time problem arises because some players take a long time to decide what to do. If there is a way to monitor that kind of ponderous pondering without creating a monster bureaucracy, I'd be for it, but other than peer pressure, which is unlikely to change behavior, I can't think of any practical way to do it.

Except for the best idea of all: short set round robins leading to an 8 man finale. I like the 2 game sets idea so that nobody gets the extra break.

jay helfert · Jun 5, 2018

LSJohn said:
So you think the recommendation you've made several times is best?

Darn, I was thinking my recommendation was best and Cory thought his was best. Odd, ain't it?

With all due respect John, with the four ball rule you don't need a shot clock or a change in format. Try it, you might like it.

NH Steve · Jun 5, 2018

Stream table

Stream table

If we had a manageable shot clock for the stream table only, that would be the place to start in my opinion.

The Grady "4 balls maximum in the headstring" rule might be a good idea in the one-loss side. I think it sounds like the easiest to implement and it has a track record of working. I don't think we need to do anything on the winners side unless we have a particular match or two that are dragging.

chicagomike · Jun 5, 2018

Play the games with 11 balls when time gets short...Christmas tree rack. Whover gets 6 first wins.

Scrzbill · Jun 5, 2018

NH Steve said:
If we had a manageable shot clock for the stream table only, that would be the place to start in my opinion.

The Grady "4 balls maximum in the headstring" rule might be a good idea in the one-loss side. I think it sounds like the easiest to implement and it has a track record of working. I don't think we need to do anything on the winners side unless we have a particular match or two that are dragging.

People are looking for a cure to a problem that doesn’t exist unless you want to quit having amateurs tournaments. Amateur tournaments take longer. The ONLY change I would make would be a one set finals. The Grady rule is made up bull and doesn’t belong in a tournament with OP.Org in the title. We need to stick as close to the original rules of one pocket as possible or pretty soon the name won’t mean anything or stand for anything. I am opposed to any rule changes to the game of One Pocket. No where in the rules of one pocket does the “Grady Rule” appear.

cincy_kid · Jun 5, 2018

I shoot pretty fast so usually not an issue for me personally but it does bother me a bit to wait on slower players. Not saying they shouldn't take their time but it is something I am working on (my patience lol)..

I would be up for a shot clock or a 3/2 either way. i also really like the idea of the round robin thing and then one single elim bracket on Sunday. The round robin lends itself well to hanging out and getting to know more members but I do agree, we cant have tourneys finishing that darn late on Sundays, it's not practical for those of us who still work.

Cory in dc · Jun 5, 2018

NH Steve said:
If we had a manageable shot clock for the stream table only, that would be the place to start in my opinion.

The Grady "4 balls maximum in the headstring" rule might be a good idea in the one-loss side. I think it sounds like the easiest to implement and it has a track record of working. I don't think we need to do anything on the winners side unless we have a particular match or two that are dragging.

I’d vastly prefer Grady rules on the losers side to a race to 2. Good idea.

LSJohn · Jun 5, 2018

jay helfert said:
With all due respect John, with the four ball rule you don't need a shot clock or a change in format. Try it, you might like it.

I was just teasing you for saying you thought your idea was best. Opinions kinda work that way, huh.

El Chapo · Jun 5, 2018

There are so many more things i like better than the grady rule that has been brought up. Well, some of you know one of them and i wont even go there.

I would much rather just lower the ball count to win a game though. I think moving in play balls in a game of one pocket makes about as much sense as giving a golfer a four stroke penalty for making a hole in one. The entire game recolves around control and ball positioning. If you start just picking up balls it just isnt even one pocket anymore. Cmon what if there is a ball up there and the entire game hindges on its position for one player.

chicagomike · Jun 5, 2018

Race to 3 is much more preferable to me.

LSJohn · Jun 5, 2018

Tobermory said:
Except for the best idea of all: short set round robins leading to an 8 man finale. I like the 2 game sets idea so that nobody gets the extra break.

Agreed, with 4 groups of 8, not 8 groups of 4; then top 2 in each 8 go to a single-elim final.

sneakynito · Jun 5, 2018

LSJohn said:
So you think the recommendation you've made several times is best?

Darn, I was thinking my recommendation was best and Cory thought his was best. Odd, ain't it?

:lol

You're all wrong, though.
Time limit of 2 beers/game.
With 1 Jameson extension per player.

Shot clock

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