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  #71  
Old 01-14-2019, 12:10 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by gulfportdoc View Post
Hitting the "sweet spot" between the first two balls (or anywhere else for that matter) is not that difficult. What makes the aiming more challenging is the additional dimension of the application of English to the CB. With the cue tip one or more tips out from the center axis of the CB, visualizing the track of the ball becomes trickier. Are we aiming exactly at what we think we are aiming? What is our point of reference?

Lately, I've been using a method learned from Bert Kinister. He suggests that when using English on the CB, rather than trying to aim the CB from its center, aim to the target directly from wherever the cue tip is positioned on the CB. In other words to aim right through the contact point on the CB to the precise target. I've used the method for shooting normal cut shots wif extreme English, so it occurred to me to try it on the 1P break.

So far my break has been much more consistent. It's not necessary to visualize anything but where you want to strike the stack. But Y'all will have to agree not to use dis method when TEMPTEMPyou're breaking against me.

~Doc
Art, when aiming to execute a hit I aim the part of the cue ball whether it be a full hit (the center) or a thinner hit ( off center) in regard to the cue ball to the place on the OB dat contacts the line to the pocket. Of course, when English is applied, we must make the necessary adjustment to compensate for deflection and masse. Summary: When cutting a ball to the right I aim the right side of the cue ball where I believe the cue ball will contact the OB which is the left side of the OB. Executing a full hit you tan would aim the center of the cue ball to the center of the OB for a true straight hit.

Getting back to the break. When I aim to the first diamond from the pocket wif the head ball with either right or left English the deflection that takes place will alter the trajectory to the sweet spot, or close to it.

The reason I was having problems breaking the balls for several years I was guessing how much deflection would occur and how much speed needed to control the deflection the way I assumed it would play out. I continued to second guess myself, and all I did was confuse myself with my aiming point, amount of deflection, and I was often "dogging" my stroke. Once I understood where I needed to aim (Patrick's method) I hit the shot with a good stroke with reasonable speed to control the speed of the cue ball and it, fortunately, was perfectly suited to take the cue ball to the sweet spot. Had the hit been fat, or thin, I would have made the necessary adjustment to compensate for deflection and speed of hit.

So when Burt Kinister says..rather than trying to aim the CB from its center
that's where it confused me because you don't always aim the cue ball from its center IMO. Maybe I'm missing something?

Dr. Bill
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  #72  
Old 01-14-2019, 04:38 PM
darmoose darmoose is offline
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Originally Posted by wincardona View Post
Art, when aiming to execute a hit I aim the part of the cue ball whether it be a full hit (the center) or a thinner hit ( off center) in regard to the cue ball to the place on the OB dat contacts the line to the pocket. Of course, when English is applied, we must make the necessary adjustment to compensate for deflection and masse. Summary: When cutting a ball to the right I aim the right side of the cue ball where I believe the cue ball will contact the OB which is the left side of the OB. Executing a full hit you tan would aim the center of the cue ball to the center of the OB for a true straight hit.

Getting back to the break. When I aim to the first diamond from the pocket wif the head ball with either right or left English the deflection that takes place will alter the trajectory to the sweet spot, or close to it.

The reason I was having problems breaking the balls for several years I was guessing how much deflection would occur and how much speed needed to control the deflection the way I assumed it would play out. I continued to second guess myself, and all I did was confuse myself with my aiming point, amount of deflection, and I was often "dogging" my stroke. Once I understood where I needed to aim (Patrick's method) I hit the shot with a good stroke with reasonable speed to control the speed of the cue ball and it, fortunately, was perfectly suited to take the cue ball to the sweet spot. Had the hit been fat, or thin, I would have made the necessary adjustment to compensate for deflection and speed of hit.

So when Burt Kinister says..rather than trying to aim the CB from its center
that's where it confused me because you don't always aim the cue ball from its center IMO. Maybe I'm missing something?

Dr. Bill
This is interesting, however, how do you know after you break and like the results, that the head ball was headed at the first diamond, or conversely, if the break was a disaster, that the head ball was not headed to the first diamond?
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  #73  
Old 01-14-2019, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by wincardona View Post
...
So when Burt Kinister says..rather than trying to aim the CB from its center
that's where it confused me because you don't always aim the cue ball from its center IMO. Maybe I'm missing something? Dr. Bill
Bert didn't say the sentence in red. I did-- by way of explanation. But forget the concept of visualizing the CB from it's center. That's not the pertinent point.

The technique I'm referring to is, whenever using side english, to simply aim from wherever the cue tip is placed on the CB directly to the target you want. Larry put up a nice graphic above.

If you get the concept, try it for a 1P break. You'll be surprised.

~Doc
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  #74  
Old 01-15-2019, 07:26 AM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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This is interesting, however, how do you know after you break and like the results, that the head ball was headed at the first diamond, or conversely, if the break was a disaster, that the head ball was not headed to the first diamond?
Pick a spot on the long rail to aim the head ball and then break the balls if the front ball is hit too fat then rebreak and aim to a higher spot on the long rail to adjust your point of aim to hit the sweet spot.
Whether the head ball is tracking to the first diamond is irrelevant, what matters is if you are aiming it to the first diamond or short or long of the first diamond to get to your sweet spot hit. Once you tweak your aim to hit the sweet spot then you know how to aim the front ball.

Dr. Bill

Last edited by wincardona; 01-15-2019 at 07:39 AM.
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  #75  
Old 01-15-2019, 07:50 AM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by gulfportdoc View Post
Bert didn't say the sentence in red. I did-- by way of explanation. But forget the concept of visualizing the CB from it's center. That's not the pertinent point.

The technique I'm referring to is, whenever using side english, to simply aim from wherever the cue tip is placed on the CB directly to the target you want. Larry put up a nice graphic above.

If you get the concept, try it for a 1P break. You'll be surprised.

~Doc
This is the exact method I was referring to when I described how to aim the hit by using the side of the cue ball that will strike the OB to get the hit you want.

However, if you aim the tip of your cue to the spot you want to hit and are using English the deflection will take you away from the target you're aiming at. In this case, you are aiming to break the balls to the right pocket using right English and aiming to the sweet spot between the first two balls. Correct? If yes, then the right English will create deflection which in turn will send the cue ball "low" of the target ending up hitting the second ball fat.

This is where Patrick's method is needed. Instead of aiming your tip to the sweet spot aim it high of the sweet spot to get the desired hit, the deflection will take you close or to the sweet spot if an adjustment is needed you then will understand what kind of adjustment is needed. If I were breaking the balls I would aim the tip to cut the head ball to the first diamond as I do with Patrick's method. That's my sweet spot hit.

Dr. Bill

Last edited by wincardona; 01-15-2019 at 07:56 AM.
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  #76  
Old 01-15-2019, 08:35 AM
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NH Steve NH Steve is offline
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I can see where that might help someone.. I remember one time when I was lagging poorly. Sometimes I would lag for money against people.. Anyway, I started imagining a ball sitting down there at the other end of the table.. I would start to really bear down and imagine I was going to feather that ball and bring my cue up to freeze it on the head rail.. This helped me to get a lot more consistent..You never know what can help...
Good point -- and that is why virtually all these suggestions for how to obtain a good hit at the "sweet spot" -- between the head ball and second ball -- have merit. Whatever works to help with the delicacy of the aim, compounded by the delicacy of applying english, that's the idea.

For me, when I combine low english with side english (such as 4/5 or 7/8 o'clock english), that is when I tend to get a bit more inconsistent with my accuracy. Inconsistent is a very bad thing in your One Pocket break, so I stay with around 2 or 10 o'clock when I break -- not because I get better cue ball action, but because I get more consistent accuracy on my rack contact that way.

There is nothing "wrong" with using no english -- except your cue ball is going to drift more into the area between the stack and side rail, so your opponent has better cuing room for their return shot. That aspect weakens the strength of your break. But if using no english improves your accuracy, I would consider it, because I think the hit on the rack is more important than the english. Especially starting out as a One Pocket player. That's my opinion.
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  #77  
Old 01-15-2019, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by wincardona View Post
...
However, if you aim the tip of your cue to the spot you want to hit and are using English the deflection will take you away from the target you're aiming at. In this case, you are aiming to break the balls to the right pocket using right English and aiming to the sweet spot between the first two balls. Correct? If yes, then the right English will create deflection which in turn will send the cue ball "low" of the target ending up hitting the second ball fat.
...
Dr. Bill
If you're getting deflection without swerve with a medium speed hit, then your cue tip must be ultra hard, too large, or unchalked. Medium or even medium/firm hit should not cause deflection that needs to be adjusted for.

But no matter whether the shooter is aiming for the "sweet spot" or slightly above, it's still a target which one should still be able to aim at directly through the cue tip.

~Doc
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  #78  
Old 01-15-2019, 10:06 AM
oldschool1478 oldschool1478 is online now
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I switched from high to low inside about 3 months ago.
I found the same result as Mr3.
What I like the most is I can use a much firmer stroke and still have the cue ball float to the side rail.
Well, after posting the above reply, I recovered my Diamond.
The new cloth is of course much slicker, so I am not getting the same result.
The exact speed/spin ratio is quite a bit harder to dial in. Still works great
when I get it right, but not as reliable as before the recover.

Also, the new cloth has moved the aim target for the corner to corner three rail kick a full diamond closer! I now aim at the first diamond past the side
pocket. Explains why over the past few years that aim point had slowly worked it's way up table (dirt/chalk accumulation on the cushion nose).
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  #79  
Old 01-15-2019, 10:34 AM
darmoose darmoose is offline
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Originally Posted by wincardona View Post
Pick a spot on the long rail to aim the head ball and then break the balls if the front ball is hit too fat then rebreak and aim to a higher spot on the long rail to adjust your point of aim to hit the sweet spot.
Whether the head ball is tracking to the first diamond is irrelevant, what matters is if you are aiming it to the first diamond or short or long of the first diamond to get to your sweet spot hit. Once you tweak your aim to hit the sweet spot then you know how to aim the front ball.

Dr. Bill
DR Bill,

Forgive me for asking this, but my experience has always been that just about anything I try new, aimed at improving something, works (at least for a while). Probably more for reasons of increased focus or a new thought process.

Here's my point....when you are aiming to pocket a ball, how do you know you hit the OB in the correct spot? Answer, the OB goes in the hole, no?

In this method for aiming at the break shot, you cannot get that kind of feedback as the head ball will never go towards the first diamond (or whatever your target is) nor ever hit that target.

Seems to me it is impossible for you to know if you hit the head ball toward that target. Seems to me you are simply judging whether you like the hit you made based on the results, which you can do no matter your method or your target thought.

Where am I not understanding? PJ, you are welcome to chime in here if you wish. Just trying to understand your idea?

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  #80  
Old 01-15-2019, 10:59 AM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by darmoose View Post
DR Bill,

Forgive me for asking this, but my experience has always been that just about anything I try new, aimed at improving something, works (at least for a while). Probably more for reasons of increased focus or a new thought process.

Here's my point....when you are aiming to pocket a ball, how do you know you hit the OB in the correct spot? Answer, the OB goes in the hole, no?

In this method for aiming at the break shot, you cannot get that kind of feedback as the head ball will never go towards the first diamond (or whatever your target is) nor ever hit that target.

Seems to me it is impossible for you to know if you hit the head ball toward that target. Seems to me you are simply judging whether you like the hit you made based on the results, which you can do no matter your method or your target thought.

Where am I not understanding? PJ, you are welcome to chime in here if you wish. Just trying to understand your idea?

Rack the balls and break them several times maybe 5 to 10 times using this aiming method. If your aim is consistent to the target and you are getting good results it doesn't matter if the head ball is aimed accurately to the first diamond results are what counts. As long as you feel you're hitting the front ball where you are aiming and you're doing it consistently then you have mastered the shot. It's not about the front ball going toward the diamond, it's about how to hit the sweet spot. In your mind, if you are hitting the front ball with consistency aiming at the first diamond or wherever you choose to aim and are getting good results then you have achieved what you set out to do and put it in your memory of ..how to execute the break..

Dr. Bill
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