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  #21  
Old 10-01-2019, 08:15 AM
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NH Steve NH Steve is offline
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Originally Posted by Dennis "Whitey" Young View Post
Steve: wants the proponents of RR to discuss their position and put forth 1 concensus RR format to go into a poll vs DE & Chip! So let's get it together!
So are there any suggestions how to accomplish this task put forward to us? We thoroughly discussed this on page 35, RR Thread, so this is a source for review and decision making!

1st. we can review the merits of each RR Format proposal, along with the downfalls! We know that most likely we would want 16 tables at least to start with. mr3cushion's format could be done on less tables, and I believe this, for he was working with the Senior Tournament last year regarding his suggestions on a format when using less tables. So considerations towards mr3cushion RR Format needs to be considered if less than 16 tables are available, or if time is an issue and amount of table use.

By the way there is a full thread devoted to solidifying the senior tournament venue on pg. 31. These suggestions could be of use going forth with this year's Senior Tournament!

One factor we need to know from Steve is the # of tables required to pull off a MOT, whether or not it is a RR or DE Format. We'd like 16 for RR Format but what do the traditionalist die hard want for DE?
Another key factor is; 16 tables for Friday and then is it desired to reduced our use of tables at some time before Saturday Night to accommodate their regular clientele.

So Steve; so what if the combined total of RR and Chip out score DE, but DE out scores either one? For me and others, I'd say that this is a voice for change, and unfair to side with DE. Because the vote is split between RR and Chip! But if Chip out scores RR or vise-versa then I would have that leader go into a final poll vs. DE.

What is really funny is where are those that put forth the merits of DE, other than that is the way we have always done it! think about it! Whitey
I'm not a poolroom owner, but what I see is yes, the local rooms have their peak times in the evening Saturday (probably Friday night too but I think we need that one pretty fully). So cutting down like around 4 on Saturday probably helps the room owner.
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  #22  
Old 10-01-2019, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Dennis "Whitey" Young View Post
Nik, death group has been discussed before, and based upon mr3cushion's vast experience, he has advised that it is best to rank the top players and by draw they would be placed in separate groups. We do not want to hamper our best players but want them in the finals, if their play merits it! Whitey
I think that is exactly a big part of why some people like the traditional unseeded DE -- there are "chances" that make the bracket progress interesting -- with some weaker paths that let weaker players get farther and some double trouble paths that do knock out stronger players. If you seed RR you are nearly guaranteeing that only the strong survive... it is a format designed partly for that.
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  #23  
Old 10-01-2019, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Dennis "Whitey" Young View Post
We do not want to hamper our best players but want them in the finals, if their play merits it! Whitey
That depends upon what "We" think the main purpose of the tournament -- and the organization -- actually is.

Granted, the tournament is a competition, not a picnic, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who spends the time and money to participate for social purposes, not to find out which of our members are playing the best that weekend.

I have noticed that the better players are more likely to favor seeding. Probably just a coincidence.
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  #24  
Old 10-01-2019, 11:25 AM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is offline
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Originally Posted by NH Steve View Post
I think that is exactly a big part of why some people like the traditional unseeded DE -- there are "chances" that make the bracket progress interesting -- with some weaker paths that let weaker players get farther and some double trouble paths that do knock out stronger players. If you seed RR you are nearly guaranteeing that only the strong survive... it is a format designed partly for that.
Well the luck of the draw it is! That definitely works!

Also how many tables do you want for the next MOT? This is important to know for the RR format discussions have been based upon 16 tables. If we have less tables to work with then most likely mr3cushion's RR format is the one we would put forth. We have not put any thought into the reality of having less tables to work with!

Maybe the table amount required is being worked through on the 'Location Thread for MOT'! Thus maybe our poll is in some what of a limbo to see where our next location for the MOT will be.

I just had a thought about the amount of tables. If we have 12 tables then for the RR format of 4 groups of 8 players then they would play on 3 tables / group. The time factor will have to be calculated. Hopefully we end of with a host of 16 tables. Whitey

Last edited by Dennis "Whitey" Young; 10-01-2019 at 02:21 PM.
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  #25  
Old 10-01-2019, 02:17 PM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is offline
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Steve; I have decided to make the call on which RR format that the proponents want to put forward for a poll. I was the facilitator of the original RR thread. I started that thread for I felt Tobermory was a lone RR voice not being recognized.
That thread had 66 comments and 3,708 views. At the wind down of that thread and during I felt we had somewhat of a consensus, and I also feel that my choice mirrors Tobermory's original RR concept fairly close.

I feel the closest consensus choice for an RR Format to represent RR going forth into a poll is the 14 game - 4 groups of 8 - playing on 4 tables / group.

Any further discussions or objections or consensus comments are welcomed.

I would like to see this RR Format go into a poll vs. Chip. Then the winner go into a poll vs. DE. That way the vote is not split between RR & Chip if the two had to go up against DE in a poll. Any further discussions on this are welcomed! Whitey

Last edited by Dennis "Whitey" Young; 10-01-2019 at 02:22 PM.
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  #26  
Old 10-01-2019, 03:14 PM
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youngstownkid youngstownkid is offline
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Default Preferred format for our MOT

Ok...if I had to sum up the unlimited chip tourney Iíd say itís (1) the most efficient because there are no brackets or scheduled (RR) matches to get behind on, (2) itís the most random (but a finals bracket could be seeded if desired), (3) you will play the most number of opponents, (4), itís the most versatile in that if we need to reduce tables at anytime, itís doable (we just take the winners from those tables and put them at the top of the waiting list) If we want to limit the number of games a winner stays on the table, we could do that. If a player won several games in a row and wants to take a food/potty/smoke break, he can do so by notifying the TD immediately after the previous game is over (once an opponent is known there is no running away to take a break to avoid him), and go back on the waiting list (at the top even since he didnít lose and when he comes back he could be next up) however we decide (in advance). So if we voted to do chip we have a few decisions we could make in order to make it suit our needs.
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  #27  
Old 10-01-2019, 04:29 PM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is offline
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Originally Posted by youngstownkid View Post
Ok...if I had to sum up the unlimited chip tourney Iíd say itís (1) the most efficient because there are no brackets or scheduled (RR) matches to get behind on, (2) itís the most random (but a finals bracket could be seeded if desired), (3) you will play the most number of opponents, (4), itís the most versatile in that if we need to reduce tables at anytime, itís doable (we just take the winners from those tables and put them at the top of the waiting list) If we want to limit the number of games a winner stays on the table, we could do that. If a player won several games in a row and wants to take a food/potty/smoke break, he can do so by notifying the TD immediately after the previous game is over (once an opponent is known there is no running away to take a break to avoid him), and go back on the waiting list (at the top even since he didnít lose and when he comes back he could be next up) however we decide (in advance). So if we voted to do chip we have a few decisions we could make in order to make it suit our needs.
This is sure a different attitude from you as compared to your Chip thread! I tried to join the discussion on that thread just so I could learn and to get up to speed on chip, and what I discovered was; 'it was your way or the highway'.

But to make decisions after lets say; 'you get the vote', is hard for me to accept that you will allow others to have a say in the decision making, that is just not you!

I liked that a player can stay on the table for two games then go back on the list, and I voiced this on your Chip thread, and the responses I was getting back to my comments, well I had to hit the highway. I see you have loosened up on your stance on this!

I would like you to spell out exactly the most fair and best way to run a Chip so we as voters can make a knowledgeable vote, and not be speculating on what we are voting on, and how it might be ran once you get the vote, if that happens. Whitey
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  #28  
Old 10-01-2019, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by youngstownkid View Post
Ok...if I had to sum up the unlimited chip tourney Iíd say itís (1) the most efficient because there are no brackets or scheduled (RR) matches to get behind on, (2) itís the most random (but a finals bracket could be seeded if desired), (3) you will play the most number of opponents, (4), itís the most versatile in that if we need to reduce tables at anytime, itís doable (we just take the winners from those tables and put them at the top of the waiting list) If we want to limit the number of games a winner stays on the table, we could do that. If a player won several games in a row and wants to take a food/potty/smoke break, he can do so by notifying the TD immediately after the previous game is over (once an opponent is known there is no running away to take a break to avoid him), and go back on the waiting list (at the top even since he didnít lose and when he comes back he could be next up) however we decide (in advance). So if we voted to do chip we have a few decisions we could make in order to make it suit our needs.
This point of view was liked by many in past discussions.

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  #29  
Old 10-01-2019, 06:09 PM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is offline
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Steve, you engaged Youngstownkid quite extensively about Chip format, as I recall it was quite a discussion. You appeared wanting to get to the bottom of this idea.
Can you articulate in your opinion how a Chip Format would work. How points are developed, I would assume 1 pt. for a win? This brings me to how long should a player be able to hold on to a table? It seems the more your on a table the more wins you get!
It is like going into a bar and holding the table for two hours until you leave.

Would we whittle the field down to a rd. of 16 and then whittle it down to final 8 going into Sunday's Final? Thus opening up tables.
Or;
Does everybody just play straight threw for two days and then by a point system we get the final 8?

I believe we are talking about randomly playing who ever on what ever table comes open once you get to the top of the list. Does the holder of the table always 'break' or with each new challenger is there a lag for the break?
Best as I can recall about your discussions, the list and how it is manage I believe have some desired guidelines as to who go ahead of who, and so forth. Can you articulate this?

In general I like this format, but at this point I do not know the finer points of how it is going to come down! What am I voting on! thanks, Whitey

Last edited by Dennis "Whitey" Young; 10-01-2019 at 08:21 PM.
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  #30  
Old 10-02-2019, 10:19 AM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is offline
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How does this work if there’s only 30 players? We all know about buys in a regular format but in a round robin I have no idea how that would work when qualifying to advance out of a group.
To answer your question so that members are not confused!
RR is 4 groups of 8 players = 32 players. But if there are say 30 or 31 players then by draw a group or two groups will have one less player. Since it is by group then the top 4 players out of each group advance to the rd. of 16. In which they will be paired against 3 other different players. 2 players advance out of each group to the elite 8.
I hope this clears up any confusion!
If we end up with a venue of 12 tables then each group will have 3 tables, so therefore two players will sit tell a table opens up.

Review Nik's post, he brings up some good points! No one is eliminated the first day of play. thanks, Whitey
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