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  #51  
Old 10-11-2019, 12:29 PM
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Mkbtank Mkbtank is online now
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Default Ghost vs. John 47 wwyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by darmoose View Post
Mitch,



Would you bet you can pocket the 10 ball with your shot, and not leave a bank on the 5 ball?





Yes. I would. . Not every time, but enough that itís the right shot.
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  #52  
Old 10-11-2019, 01:33 PM
Kybanks Kybanks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darmoose View Post
...

I have yet to hear any rational for attempting to pocket the 10 ball.

So much talk on this board about playing the score. How is it playing the score to attempt to pocket the 10 ball and taking the chance of coming off the hill, or leaving a bank on that 5 ball, as opposed to putting the 5 ball out of play?

Ghostie loves proposition bets, so tell ya what. I'll shoot my shot and anybody on here can shoot any shot they wish to pocket the 10 ball. I will make the 5 ball in my hole in my next inning following your shot, before you can make the 10 ball and another ball on your next inning following my shot. Any foul committed loses.

You are assuming that everyone will pocket the 10 ball and try to play position on those three balls in the corner. What happens if the incoming player shoots a shot that puts 2 balls in play and leaves the 10 ball Still hanging in his hole? This is such a dangerous position that just moving the 5 ball doesn't solve!
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  #53  
Old 10-11-2019, 01:39 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darmoose View Post
...

I have yet to hear any rational for attempting to pocket the 10 ball.

So much talk on this board about playing the score. How is it playing the score to attempt to pocket the 10 ball and taking the chance of coming off the hill, or leaving a bank on that 5 ball, as opposed to putting the 5 ball out of play?

Ghostie loves proposition bets, so tell ya what. I'll shoot my shot and anybody on here can shoot any shot they wish to pocket the 10 ball. I will make the 5 ball in my hole in my next inning following your shot, before you can make the 10 ball and another ball on your next inning following my shot. Any foul committed loses.

Placing the 5ball out of play, preferably tying up the 12ball looks to me like the best option, however, the player with the 10ball hanging will always be the favorite to pocket the first ball after the 10ball is pocketed because he will be the player with the first move and possibly the first decent shot. But in no way does that mean that placing the 5ball out of play is the wrong option because any option taken still puts the shooter at a disadvantage. My point is that placing the 5ball out of play lessens the disadvantage for the shooter as opposed to trying to pocket the 10ball. In regard to losing the game it should be quite clear that trying to pocket the 10ball puts the shooter at a much higher risk than placing the 5ball out of play and for anyone that doesn't understand that needs to have lots of money because your gambling habits will require that.

Dr. Bill
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  #54  
Old 10-11-2019, 02:21 PM
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One Pocket Ghost One Pocket Ghost is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wincardona View Post
In regard to losing the game it should be quite clear that trying to pocket the 10ball puts the shooter at a much higher risk than placing the 5ball out of play and for anyone that doesn't understand that needs to have lots of money because your gambling habits will require that.

Dr. Bill
As Billy reiterates here ^^^ ...

I put up this wwyd because imo it would serve as a good One Pocket lesson for those that are on the site to learn solid One Pocket strategy...and now, several days later, with the endorsement and/or explanations by myself, Darrell, Billy, Frank, Tom, pilot Jim and others of choosing to take the 5 out of play in this situation - accomplishes that strategy sharing...

Yes, if you kick or masse in the 10 you could easily leave a bank on the 5, as is being spoken about - but leaving that bank is decidedly just the secondary wrong reason for choosing to attempt to kick or masse in the 10 here...

...the primary reason that choosing to kick in the 10 is far and away, 100%, and obviously the wrong choice here, is...if you miss the kick or masse, you don't just come off the hill - you spot up a ball, he runs the three open balls, and now you are down 7-6, instead of being ahead 7-5, like you would have been if you had instead shot the 5 out of play...

...and shooting the 5 out of play easily passes the risk assessment part of the shot-choosing equation...

...lastly, it doesn't matter if you can make the kick or masse 9-out-of-10 tries - that's not good enough - it's still the wrong shot here...maybe, just maybe, if you can make the kick or masse 49-out-of-50 tries it's an acceptable choice...but I don't believe even Tony, Dennis, or Efren can make 49-out-of-50.

So obviously, taking the 5 out of play is what I chose to shoot in this position, and if my opponent can get shape to bank the 5ball cross-corner next - God bless him - I'll tap my stick and say "nice shot"......and hey Tom, did I leave the cueball just about where you also wanted to?... >>>
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Last edited by One Pocket Ghost; 10-11-2019 at 02:32 PM.
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  #55  
Old 10-11-2019, 02:50 PM
darmoose darmoose is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kybanks View Post
You are assuming that everyone will pocket the 10 ball and try to play position on those three balls in the corner. What happens if the incoming player shoots a shot that puts 2 balls in play and leaves the 10 ball Still hanging in his hole? This is such a dangerous position that just moving the 5 ball doesn't solve!
If you are referring to the prop bet that I have proposed, while that would indeed be the smartest move the incoming player could make, it is not the bet.

The bet is which initial shot is most likely to allow the incoming player to make a ball other than the 10 ball which we are sacrificing. The incoming player doesn't have to make the 10 ball first, but he must make two balls during his inning in order to prove that my opening shot is less favorable than his. I must pocket the 5 ball to prove his is not the correct opening shot. (i.e.) if we try it 10 times, I will pocket that five ball more than you will make a ball other than the 10 ball, no matter the order you decide to shoot them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wincardona View Post
Placing the 5ball out of play, preferably tying up the 12ball looks to me like the best option, however, the player with the 10ball hanging will always be the favorite to pocket the first ball after the 10ball is pocketed because he will be the player with the first move and possibly the first decent shot.
True, but not the prop bet (see above).


Quote:
But in no way does that mean that placing the 5ball out of play is the wrong option because any option taken still puts the shooter at a disadvantage. My point is that placing the 5ball out of play lessens the disadvantage for the shooter as opposed to trying to pocket the 10ball.
Also true.


Quote:
In regard to losing the game it should be quite clear that trying to pocket the 10ball puts the shooter at a much higher risk than placing the 5ball out of play and for anyone that doesn't understand that needs to have lots of money because your gambling habits will require that.

Dr. Bill
The ultimate truth, and the one that counts, don't you see?
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  #56  
Old 10-11-2019, 03:06 PM
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one pocket guy one pocket guy is offline
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Iím making the 8 now and leaving the 10 then next shot Iím bringing something else down after you make 10
As Iíve heard Dr Bill say on commentary. The guy behind can get back in the game with patience.
I still believe getting rid of the 10 early benefits the shooter
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  #57  
Old 10-11-2019, 03:27 PM
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Mkbtank Mkbtank is online now
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Default Ghost vs. John 47 wwyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by one pocket guy View Post
Iím making the 8 now and leaving the 10 then next shot Iím bringing something else down after you make 10

As Iíve heard Dr Bill say on commentary. The guy behind can get back in the game with patience.

I still believe getting rid of the 10 early benefits the shooter


Of course it does, Todd. As usual you are a man with good sense. 👍
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  #58  
Old 10-11-2019, 04:13 PM
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unoperro unoperro is offline
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OPG I think you put up a good wwyd.

Another lesson to be learned, dont leave whitey where you did
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  #59  
Old 10-11-2019, 04:38 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one pocket guy View Post
Iím making the 8 now and leaving the 10 then next shot Iím bringing something else down after you make 10
As Iíve heard Dr Bill say on commentary. The guy behind can get back in the game with patience.
I still believe getting rid of the 10 early benefits the shooter
This is one of those rare times when the balls lay good for the shooter freakishly positioned to where the shooter needing all four balls can bank the 12ball into the outside of the 5ball and possibly pocket the 10ball off the 12ball while sending the 5ball to his side in the process. Would I shoot this shot? You bet I would needing all the balls.

That's another reason I like positioning the 5ball near the 12ball on the top rail, it's very difficult getting creative with balls on the top rail as opposed to balls on the side rail.
Dr. Bill
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  #60  
Old 10-11-2019, 04:39 PM
ChicagoFats ChicagoFats is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wincardona View Post
This is one of those rare times when the balls lay good for the shooter freakishly positioned to where the shooter needing all four balls can bank the 12ball into the outside of the 5ball and possibly pocket the 10ball off the 12ball while sending the 5ball to his side in the process. Would I shoot this shot? You bet I would needing all the balls.

That's another reason I like positioning the 5ball near the 12ball on the top rail, it's very difficult getting creative with balls on the top rail as opposed to balls on the side rail.
Dr. Bill
I love this shot selection... will have to store in my memory banks.
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