One pocket origins?

bstroud said:

Artie,

I know we never played also.

Like you I remember mostly when I lost. I remember every detail.

Joey Spathe beat me 3 games in Baltimore and I remember the room, the table, the unfinished floor, the half open window, the bottle of J and J baby powder, the white towel he used, the white power all over the table and most of all the cross corner bank on the 8 ball he made to make me quit.

That was almost 50 years ago.

I remember when Ed Kelly beat me in Vegas. The last 3 games I had him in dead traps. He had to take 2 deliberate scratches in each game. Each game he found a combo I overlooked and ran 10 and out. 3 games.

SJD beat me when I was very young. I beat him the day before playing 9 ball.

Bananas beat me at the Tropicana Bowl. 3 games.

Ray Booth beat me some where in the South. 3 games.

Those are the only people that ever beat me playing one pocket.

The ones I beat:

Freddy-12 in a row
Billy I.
Miserack
Hopkins
Mexican Johny
Surfer-bar table one pocket
Strawberry
Beanie and his partner
Siegel
Cook
Hall
Grady
Puckett
Johny Edwards
Black Paul in Chi
Stevens
Glen Knowles
Florence
Jersey Red

1000's of others all on their home court. They got to bet as much as they wanted. I was betting 1000.00 a game playing 9 ball when I was 17. My own money. I have Never been staked. I have never had a spot from anyone and I don't plan on ever getting one.

That's just one pocket.

The only players that ever beat me playing 9 ball were Louie Roberts and Toby Sweet. Toby quit me 5 games winner at Park Row in NYC and said " I'll play you some more at 7-11." That was his home court. I may have been dumb in those days but I wasn't stupid. I said no thanks. He played the best push out I ever saw.

I never ducked any good players. I just didn't go out of my way to play them. They never had any money. If the asked me they got played.

I would put my win/loss record up against anyone that has ever played.

Thanks for asking,

Bill

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If you beat all those people you must have had a good peace off money. Did you ever have a job? How old are you?

Artie,

You are right. I made a lot of money playing pool

In 1959 when I was 18 and playing in Dallas and betting high every day I had a new Corvette (4K), a new XKE (4.5K) and lived in a luxury apartment.

Two years later when I was in college at OU, in the summer, I hustled pool. At the end of that summer I put 80K in the bank. I still have it.

After that I was on the road for 6 years. I had no home. I traveled in a Shelby 350, lived in Holiday Inns and went under the name "Colorado". I never gave my real name to anyone.

In 1967 I started Joss Cues and after that I didn't play pool very seriously. I did play once in 1968 and gave Cole Dickson 9 to 7. He beat me.

The next year I played twice. I played Marvin Henderson one pocket and won 10K. Earlier that same year I had played Allen Hopkins one pocket and won 2800.00.

During that period I never played or practiced. Mike Sigel once told me that I was the best player in the World that never played.

Forty four years later I am still making pool cues but that is about to stop. I enjoy playing pool too much and play too well not to give it another shot. I will be 70 years old next year and do not have an ache or a pain. I don't drink and don't take medication of any kind. I have been very lucky.

Bill Stroud

Lucky, indeed, Bill, and good for you. This was a very interesting post, and it indicates that you are one of the few players (I think) that played profitably betting his own money and living well on the proceeds. Then you indicated that you would put the cue-making aside and give pool another try. I have a question. Are you telling us that you intend to get out and play in tournaments and related action, or that you will hustle again, making favorable matches by hiding your speed? Can that still be done, given the improvements in communication?

Artie Bodendorfer said:

If you beat all those people you must have had a good peace off money. Did you ever have a job? How old are you?

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were did you beat Freddy 12 games in a row. and how much? It sounds like you remember everything.

THats more than I can say I dont remember what I ate yesterday. And the times you are talking about I have forgoten.

Were didyou learn too play. Self tought or who tought you.What year did you beat Freddy.

And were did you beat mexican Johnny.

The only player I seen beat Johnny was bugs he spotted him 9 to 8 playing banks on the south side.

I backet Johnny about 50 times I never lost one time.

Were did you beat billy? And what game?

You beat all these guys you mudt have played better then Eddie Taylor.

And were did you beat mexican Johnny.

I beat Mexican Johny at a storefront pool roon in Indianapolis, IA.
I came in the room about 11 PM. He was just about the only guy there. He had another guy with him. We played one pocket for 50.00 a game. I beat him 5 or 6 games in a row mostly with 8 and out. He quit.

The only player I seen beat Johnny was bugs he spotted him 9 to 8 playing banks on the south side.

I backet Johnny about 50 times I never lost one time.

Were did you beat billy? And what game?

I played Billy at the Golden 8 ball in Chicago. 9 ball, bank pool, straight pool, one pocket. I think he became a much better played after that. I know I did.
You may remember when Billy gave Mexican Johny the 8 at Bensingers. I was there to watch. Johny asked me for the 7.

You also mentioned Dallas West. I beat him easily playing 9 ball when we were both at the Stardust tournament in Vegas. Puckett was in with me.

You beat all these guys you mudt have played better then Eddie Taylor.[/QUOTE]


I could never beat Taylor. How do you beat a guy that never missed a shot and never missed a bank. I would never even try.

Bill Stroud

vapros said:

Lucky, indeed, Bill, and good for you. This was a very interesting post, and it indicates that you are one of the few players (I think) that played profitably betting his own money and living well on the proceeds. Then you indicated that you would put the cue-making aside and give pool another try. I have a question. Are you telling us that you intend to get out and play in tournaments and related action, or that you will hustle again, making favorable matches by hiding your speed? Can that still be done, given the improvements in communication?

Click to expand...

I never liked playing in tournaments. I gives a lesser player a chance to beat you and no way for you to beat him back. I will play and gamble. I think tournaments are bad for the game. My game at least. I play to win. I like to win. I hate to lose.

Bill Stroud

1961 I believe

1961 I believe

bstroud said:

And were did you beat mexican Johnny.

I beat Mexican Johny at a storefront pool roon in Indianapolis, IA.
I came in the room about 11 PM. He was just about the only guy there. He had another guy with him. We played one pocket for 50.00 a game. I beat him 5 or 6 games in a row mostly with 8 and out. He quit.

The only player I seen beat Johnny was bugs he spotted him 9 to 8 playing banks on the south side.

I backet Johnny about 50 times I never lost one time.

Were did you beat billy? And what game?

I played Billy at the Golden 8 ball in Chicago. 9 ball, bank pool, straight pool, one pocket. I think he became a much better played after that. I know I did.
You may remember when Billy gave Mexican Johny the 8 at Bensingers. I was there to watch. Johny asked me for the 7.

You also mentioned Dallas West. I beat him easily playing 9 ball when we were both at the Stardust tournament in Vegas. Puckett was in with me.

You beat all these guys you mudt have played better then Eddie Taylor.

Click to expand...

I could never beat Taylor. How do you beat a guy that never missed a shot and never missed a bank. I would never even try.

Bill Stroud[/QUOTE]

Yes we played in Chicago I believe I was around 20 years old, I remember you beating me but to tell you the truth I dont remember how many different games we played. I also played Mexican Johnny around the same time he beat me playing one pocket and I also believe he beat me playing 9 ball as well. I use to go to Chicago every summer, I had a girlfriend that moved there from Pittsburgh.

I played Artie at Bensingers when I was around 21 years old, we played on a 5x10 he robbed me and I believe we played a few games on a 4-1/2x9 and he beat me there too. I never played Artie after that, but I did play Mexican Johnny a few years later. I was playing all games better when I was around 24 years old, I was playing 9 ball as good as just about any one and my one pocket game was better because of my execution. I beat Johnny playing one pocket and gave him the 8 and 9 playing 9 ball, I won and Johnny wouldn't play me after that.

I quit playing pool when I was 28 years old, at that time I was playing 9 ball as good as any one and my one pocket game was good but not great. I started back playing pool when I was around 34 or 35 years old and owned a home in Vegas where I played Ed Kelly 3 to 4 times a week we played mostly one pocket and that's when I really learned the game of one pocket. Shortly after that I was playing some of the best one pocket in the country, beating players like Grady, and Bugs. I also finished 2nd. in two one pocket tournaments. I never was a tournament player because I couldn't sleep if I was on the winners side. I finished 2nd. in the U.S. Open to Joyner, I beat him earlier in the tournament 4 to nothing and he beat me in the finals 5 to 4, I couldn't sleep the night before and was nervous in the finals. The same thing happened to me in The Roanoke one pocket tournament, I beat Hopkins,Hall, Mathews, and a few other good players and lost to Dave Bollman in the finals 4 to 3.

I quit playing pool about 4 times since I was 28 years old, and each time when I came back I was competitive, I guess i'm fortunate in that regard.

I never really brag or boast about my ability playing pool, but since it seems like the norm I just wanted to mention it.

I have been involved in pool in and out since I was 16 years old 1959. I have seen everyone that was anyone play, I have played just about every player during that time. There have been many champions from differen't eras and I can honestly say that it is next to impossible to compare them, they were all great in their own right. I love the game and the players, I enjoy doing commentary and still have a good perspective of the game and the players.

I would like to play in the Super Seniors one pocket in May in Vegas if there is one, and it would be a pleasure and a treat to play players around my age.

Thanks for listening and putting up with this old timer.

Billy I.

Billy,

We both have more in common than I thought.
We both probably quit playing for the same reason.

No money in it any longer. Anyone who thinks I wanted to get a JOB is crazy.

If Artie hadn't asked it wouldn't be here. He is persistent.

I do remember when I beat you in the one pocket tournament at Beanies' you were hot and asked me to play some 9 ball. You were beating everyone. I think you were in Detroit at that time. I knew I had no chance at that time and said NO.

Bill

wincardona said:

[/COLOR]

I could never beat Taylor. How do you beat a guy that never missed a shot and never missed a bank. I would never even try.

Bill Stroud

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Yes we played in Chicago I believe I was around 18 years old, I remember you beating me but to tell you the truth I dont remember how many different games we played. I also played Mexican Johnny around the same time he beat me playing one pocket and I also believe he beat me playing 9 ball as well. I use to go to Chicago every summer, I had a girlfriend that moved there from Pittsburgh.

I played Artie at Bensingers when I was around 20 years old, we played on a 5x10 he robbed me and I believe we played a few games on a 4-1/2x9 and he beat me there too. I never played Artie after that, but I did play Mexican Johnny a few years later. I was playing all games better when I was around 22 years old, I was playing 9 ball as good as just about any one and my one pocket game was better because of my execution. I beat Johnny playing one pocket and gave him the 8 and 9 playing 9 ball, I won and Johnny wouldn't play me after that.

I quit playing pool when I was 28 years old, at that time I was playing 9 ball as good as any one and my one pocket game was good but not great. I started back playing pool when I was around 34 or 35 years old and owned a home in Vegas where I played Ed Kelly 3 to 4 times a week we played mostly one pocket and that's when I really learned the game of one pocket. Shortly after that I was playing some of the best one pocket in the country, beating players like Grady, and Bugs. I also finished 2nd. in two one pocket tournaments. I never was a tournament player because I couldn't sleep if I was on the winners side. I finished 2nd. in the U.S. Open to Joyner, I beat him earlier in the tournament 4 to nothing and he beat me in the finals 5 to 4, I couldn't sleep the night before and was nervous in the finals. The same thing happened to me in The Roanoke one pocket tournament, I beat Hopkins,Hall, Mathews, and a few other good players and lost to Dave Bollman in the finals 4 to 3.

I quit playing pool about 4 times since I was 28 years old, and each time when I came back I was competitive, I guess i'm fortunate in that regard.

I never really brag or boast about my ability playing pool, but since it seems like the norm I just wanted to mention it.

I have been involved in pool in and out since I was 16 years old 1959. I have seen everyone that was anyone play, I have played just about every player during that time. There have been many champions from differen't eras and I can honestly say that it is next to impossible to compare them, they were all great in their own right. I love the game and the players, I enjoy doing commentary and still have a good perspective of the game and the players.

I would like to play in the Super Seniors one pocket in May in Vegas if there is one, and it would be a pleasure and a treat to play players around my age.

Thanks for listening and putting up with this old timer.

Billy I.[/QUOTE]

I remember when I was betting a nine ball prop with Billy I ant bensingers in the tournemet room. It had real tough rails.

And Billy was betting he would run out. AS I remember it. I think I won the first time we bet the prop.


But this part I do remember. you came back a few weeks or months latter. And we were betting on the same prop.

And you were like a new or different person. And I seen you had it all figured out.

And even the look on your face was telling me that I had a looser. And you could do it And win.

And I dont remember how much we played for or how much I lost. BUt I no I said UNCLE. And I leared that you are a tricky little fella. You went off and practicet doing it and came back to take it off.

You have a very good way off thinking what you have too learn too win at a proposition. But you are older know and you have mellowed out a lot.

You still have fire and desire but your killer insinct and your patence isa little more mellower. I think it hapines too us all. When we get lucky enough too live too be our age. But I remember you beating me at that prop.

And I said uncle and I was realy amazed at the difference in your game and everything was perfect your stroke and position. You were playing in perfect harmoney.

In the move the long ranger they would always say lets return too the days off yester year.

bstroud said:

Billy,

We both have more in common than I thought.
We both probably quit playing for the same reason.

No money in it any longer. Anyone who thinks I wanted to get a JOB is crazy.

If Artie hadn't asked it wouldn't be here. He is persistent.

I do remember when I beat you in the one pocket tournament at Beanies' you were hot and asked me to play some 9 ball. You were beating everyone. I think you were in Detroit at that time. I knew I had no chance at that time and said NO.

Bill

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It was a 9 ball tournament that you beat me in not one pocket. I wanted to beat you because you beat me when I was young and I wanted to win too badly, I dogged it against you and I was upset because I didn't avenge that beating you put on me when I was a kid. But there there will be a Super Seniors One Pocket and we could meet again.

Billy I.

I think and old times tourney would be a fun event if we mixed it with some dinners and other events.

I have run many cue shows and would be happy to plan and organize such an event.

It would be easy for me do here in Ruidoso at the Indian casino but I could probably do it anywhere.

I would need to know how many people would come?

Bill Stroud

wincardona said:

It was a 9 ball tournament that you beat me in not one pocket. I wanted to beat you because you beat me when I was young and I wanted to win too badly, I dogged it against you and I was upset because I didn't avenge that beating you put on me when I was a kid. But there there will be a Super Seniors One Pocket and we could meet again.

Billy I.

Click to expand...

Billy,

Check your memory. It was one pocket. It went to the last game. You had an open shot, ran some and needing one you shot a 10 ball 9 ball combo toward the right hand pocket a little carelessly. I ran out from there with 2 balls in the Kitchen.

Don't you remember when you, Joe Gold, Bobby Hunter, Norm Altof, Dick Helmsteder and I had dinner in Chicago during some tournament. I told the story with all the details and I distinctly remember you turning to Joe Gold on your right and saying "How does he remember all that stuff anyway?" We all had a good laugh.

Ask Bobby Hunter. He probably remembers. He is younger than both of us.

Sometimes I wish I didn't remember everything. It's not a blessing. It's a curse.

Bill

bstroud said:

Billy,

Check your memory. It was one pocket. It went to the last game. You had an open shot, ran some and needing one you shot a 10 ball 9 ball combo toward the right hand pocket a little carelessly. I ran out from there with 2 balls in the Kitchen.

Don't you remember when you, Joe Gold, Bobby Hunter, Norm Altof, Dick Helmsteder and I had dinner in Chicago during some tournament. I told the story with all the details and I distinctly remember you turning to Joe Gold on your right and saying "How does he remember all that stuff anyway?" We all had a good laugh.

Ask Bobby Hunter. He probably remembers. He is younger than both of us.

Sometimes I wish I didn't remember everything. It's not a blessing. It's a curse.

Bill

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Trust me I know I have a bad memory and I really do, but I dont recall ever playing in a one pocket tournament at Beanies pool room. I dont ever remember Beanie ever having one. You got me dizzy now, just like Artie gets me, dizzy

Billy I.

wincardona said:

. You got me dizzy now, just like Artie gets me, dizzy

Billy I.

Click to expand...

You should be dizzy, Between the illiterati and the illuminati I'm dizzy also.

If BS was TNT these guys would rule the world.
Rod.

Billy,

Remember, we played on the table on the left in the tourney room at Beanies.

Right after the one pocket match we were both at the counter when you asked me to play some 9 ball and I said no.

Ask Joe Gold he might remember. At that dinner in Chicago you were at the opposite end of the table from me. Joe was on your left. Bobby was sitting next to me and Jenette was next to him. Norm Altof from Mali was on your right and Helmstedder was next to him.

It was the tournament at Pheasant Run. We all had a lot to drink.

It was a great evening.

Bill

androd said:

You should be dizzy, Between the illiterati and the illuminati I'm dizzy also.

If BS was TNT these guys would rule the world.
Rod.

Click to expand...

I'm so dizzy .

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU_rqm7WPPI[/ame]

androd said:

You should be dizzy, Between the illiterati and the illuminati I'm dizzy also.

If BS was TNT these guys would rule the world.
Rod.

Click to expand...

Thier is a song about that Im so dizze my head is spinning. Nobody can make you dizze but yourself. Making a bad game will cure Dizzie ness.

Just remembered....

Just remembered....

fred bentivegna said:

In the 60s there was one in Jack Kramer's Cue n Cushion on 79th and Biscayne in Miami. It was a converted 5 x 10 billiard table. Next to my own Bensingers, the most exciting room to me was the Cue and Cushion. It was a modern room with about 18 Gold Crowns. In the winter season, almost every notable pool player from the East was there. Brooklyn Jimmy, Johnny Irish, Tony Scarface, Staten Island (Doc Holiday), Harry Cohen, Danny Di, along with Fats, Gene Skinner, Marcel Camp, Little Miami, Peter Rabbit, Mike Carella, and so forth. To a young kid like me, it was heaven.

It was the first time that I got to spend some time in the limelight. I got staked to play Norfolk Charlie some bank pool. I had to give him 8 to 7. Charlie was a big time Army Surplus store owner who came there every winter and gambled high. He would only play bank pool, but he would only play if he got a ball. Unfortunately, for those New York birds, Charlie played pretty good banks, and none of those East Coasters could spot him that much.

With so many desperate to beat this guy, somebody from Chicago that knew me (Tall Al Lameroux), said I could probably beat Charlie that way. I was at the time staying in a no-electricity flop on Miami Beach, and playing in Moe's open-air pool room on South Beach without two quarters to rub together. Frank Lee drove down and got me, brought me up to Kramer's, and the rest was history.

The fact that I could do what none of those certified champions could do was exhilarating. After being broke for so long, Charlie looked like a big pork chop sandwich. We played daily, and I beat him daily. He just wasnt used to losing with that spot.

Now, with a big bankroll, I moved up into North Miami and played at Kramer's nightly, and wound up having a wonderful winter. I was happier than a game knocker with the first cell phone. I even blew off my South Beach girlfriend. She was actually the girl friend of the famous jewel thief, Murph the Surf. The bitch would only see me on the sneak. While she was eating filet mignon at the Americana Hotel with Murph, I was subsiding on ten cent bagels from the local bagel factory next door to Moe's.

Ah, what memories....

Beard

It was at Kramer's that I once got into a woofin/cursing match with the most famous hit-man in town. (I didnt know him at the time) Roy, something (Wheeler?). While we were playing he started cursing me, so I started cursing him. The whole poolroom got quiet and I quickly figured something was real wrong. I had heard that there was a murderous mob guy that played a little pool in Kramer's once in awhile. My survival instincts alerted me that this must be him, considering the whole pool room froze all at one time. Turned out Roy got a big kick out of it all and started laughing, and the joint let out a collective sigh and resumed breathing. Mr 3Cushion should remember his name, they played billiards often and beat him out of a lot of money. Why he dared play him I dont know, But that is another story...

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...the name of the pool playing, hit-man. It was Roy Thomas. I am assuming (and hoping), that he is long-departed by now.

Beard

Cowboy Dennis said:

I'm so dizzy .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU_rqm7WPPI

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That was a good song they played it almost in every bar I went into. that was the same year I bought Bensingers.

Bensingers had Two big picyures ONe off a nude women that was painted by a famousartest.

And another one a painting off a angle painted by Miss bensingers.

I could never figure out why they had those pictures in thier but the did.

And the pictures were real big with beautifull wood frams. Its amazing that a building inspectore never said anything.

I dont think nobody knowes that when it rained the water would poor through the roff and flood half the place. And the even had too cover some off the tables. with pool covers.

And sometimes it would get so bad you would think the whole selling would come down. I never seen a pool room in my life were it raind in the pool room and flooded the pool room.

And thier would never be any fresh air coming in. From any were.

And the only time I remember when some air would come in was when peaches would open up the big steel door in the back.

And the card room was even worse. Instead off calling it Bensingers the wright name should have been the tourcher chamber.

Reply, with an edit...

Reply, with an edit...

Artie Bodendorfer said:

That was a good song. They played it in almost every bar I went into. That was the same year I bought Bensingers.

Bensingers had two big pictures on the wall, one of a nude women that was painted by a famous artist. And another one was a painting of an angel, painted by Mrs. Bensinger.

I could never figure out why they had those pictures in there but they did.
The pictures were real big with beautiful wood frames.

I don't think nobody knew that when it rained, the water would pour through the roof and flood half the place. And they even had to cover some of the tables with tarps. Its amazing that a building inspector never said anything.

Sometimes it would get so bad you would think the whole ceiling would come down. I have never seen a pool room in my life where it rained in the pool room and flooded the joint.

And there would never be any fresh air coming in. From anywhere.
The only time I remember when some air would be let in was when Peaches would open up the big steel door in the back. The card room was even worse. Instead off calling it Bensingers the right name should have been the Torture Chamber.

Click to expand...

"To get a young hotshot named Barry Kohler, to play me down there I offered him 9 to 6 and the break if he would come down and play me at Bensingers. He was a decent player, he had given me the 8 and 9 at the Belmont Bowl on Cicero Ave. He couldn't pass up that spot and so he came down to the basement. The right game was probably 10 to 8.

My advantages were many: we played on a 5 x 10, and naturally, the A/C wasn't working and the oxygen level was very low. He started out like a wild man, but after about 20 minutes he began to sit down between every shot. I was used to the fetid, stale air, and I knew time was on my side. I had to giggle to myself when I looked over at the kid and seen his face had taken on a blank stare. He stayed with it until he was broke, but never, ever came down there again."

Grady Mathews had the greatest description of Bensingers:
"Dank air and musty netherworld."

Beard