crabbcatjohn
Verified Member
I have a rules question. Player one scratches. Player 2's shot.. he mistakenly OR on purpose... shoots his foul shot at a ball that is also in the kitchen. 
Whats the rule?
Whats the rule?
Rules question
- Thread starter crabbcatjohn
- Start date
crabbcatjohn
Verified Member
My friend i was playing today was just fooling around acting like he was going to lineup on a ball that was deep in the kitchen so the question came up. So is there a rule that applies to this? Say i'm playing a guy at the Derby and i scratch and he decides his best option is to shoot a ball in the kitchen and hang it in his hole. You are watching and he shoots it anyway and says oh well... What happens. Or if the guy just spaces out and does it by mistake... is there a rule and what happens to the balls etc?
lll
Verified Member
this is from the straight pool section of the wpa rules
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6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String
When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact. If such a shot is intentional, it is unsportsmanlike conduct.
The cue ball must either cross the head string or contact a ball in front of or on the head string or the shot is a foul, and the cue ball is in hand for the following player according to the rules of the specific game.
the way i interpret the rules
if done intentionally -----loss of game
if not
foul --one ball penalty and ball in hand (anywhere?)for the incoming player
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great question john
never saw it happen
i wonder what ken shuman would say?
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6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String
When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact. If such a shot is intentional, it is unsportsmanlike conduct.
The cue ball must either cross the head string or contact a ball in front of or on the head string or the shot is a foul, and the cue ball is in hand for the following player according to the rules of the specific game.
the way i interpret the rules
if done intentionally -----loss of game
if not
foul --one ball penalty and ball in hand (anywhere?)for the incoming player
........
great question john
never saw it happen
i wonder what ken shuman would say?
Tom Wirth
Verified Member
The problem with this situation is when there is no referee; How do you prove the ball was behind the head string once it has been shot? Both players are responsible for knowing what is taking place in real time. I think it is in your own best interest, if you wish to avoid an argument, to let your opponent know he cannot shoot that particular shot.
I say, it is too late to call a foul.
Tom
I say, it is too late to call a foul.
Tom
NH Steve
Administrator
This is the sort of thing that would be covered by pool's general rules, or pools general gambling rules
As Tom said, "in real time" the opponent would need to see it happening and would need to say something. Once the opponent says something, the shooter needs to stop so it can be determined if the ball is over the line or not. If they proceed to shoot anyway, yeah I would say it is a foul if it is close to legal and unsportsmanlike conduct if it is well inside the headstring and obvious. That's just my opinion and a TD could rule differently. If you are gambling, then beatle has said what I would have said -- how you handle it depends on how you feel about the game/opponent/situation.
If the shooter simply lines up and shoots a ball behind the line while the opponent is not looking, well that is downright cheating, falling into the unsportsmanlike conduct category, but good luck proving anything unless someone trusted happens to be watching and willing to step in. If it is a ball that was close to the line anyway, it would be hard to argue that it was illegal unless the question of whether it was over the line or not had already come up and been determined on an earlier shot (without further disturbance of the ball).
Likewise, I believe the general rules also cover the cue ball being placed behind the line on a ball in hand shot, and if the shooter places the cue ball over the line, they need to be warned before it's a foul. If no one says anything, then as far as I know the shot is just considered legal.
As Tom said, "in real time" the opponent would need to see it happening and would need to say something. Once the opponent says something, the shooter needs to stop so it can be determined if the ball is over the line or not. If they proceed to shoot anyway, yeah I would say it is a foul if it is close to legal and unsportsmanlike conduct if it is well inside the headstring and obvious. That's just my opinion and a TD could rule differently. If you are gambling, then beatle has said what I would have said -- how you handle it depends on how you feel about the game/opponent/situation.
If the shooter simply lines up and shoots a ball behind the line while the opponent is not looking, well that is downright cheating, falling into the unsportsmanlike conduct category, but good luck proving anything unless someone trusted happens to be watching and willing to step in. If it is a ball that was close to the line anyway, it would be hard to argue that it was illegal unless the question of whether it was over the line or not had already come up and been determined on an earlier shot (without further disturbance of the ball).
Likewise, I believe the general rules also cover the cue ball being placed behind the line on a ball in hand shot, and if the shooter places the cue ball over the line, they need to be warned before it's a foul. If no one says anything, then as far as I know the shot is just considered legal.
petie
Verified Member
I agree. Too late.
androd
Verified Member
Who doesn't look at the balls near the line after they scratch ?
LSJohn
Verified Member
This is the sort of thing that would be covered by pool's general rules, or pools general gambling rules
As Tom said, "in real time" the opponent would need to see it happening and would need to say something. Once the opponent says something, the shooter needs to stop so it can be determined if the ball is over the line or not. If they proceed to shoot anyway, yeah I would say it is a foul if it is close to legal and unsportsmanlike conduct if it is well inside the headstring and obvious. That's just my opinion and a TD could rule differently. If you are gambling, then beatle has said what I would have said -- how you handle it depends on how you feel about the game/opponent/situation.
If the shooter simply lines up and shoots a ball behind the line while the opponent is not looking, well that is downright cheating, falling into the unsportsmanlike conduct category, but good luck proving anything unless someone trusted happens to be watching and willing to step in. If it is a ball that was close to the line anyway, it would be hard to argue that it was illegal unless the question of whether it was over the line or not had already come up and been determined on an earlier shot (without further disturbance of the ball).
Likewise, I believe the general rules also cover the cue ball being placed behind the line on a ball in hand shot, and if the shooter places the cue ball over the line, they need to be warned before it's a foul. If no one says anything, then as far as I know the shot is just considered legal.
The only way this could happen by accident IMO is by a different interpretation of "behind the line" (half or touching) by the two players.
crabbcatjohn
Verified Member
Or too much White Widow...lol
LSJohn
Verified Member
one pocket guy
Verified Member
I saw a guy do this but wasn't my business to say anything.
While the guy was busy freezing the balls he shot one a foot behind the line and ran out. While the other guy was racking he glanced at me to see if I saw.
Bottom line l lay my cue across the table while spotting balls since then
While the guy was busy freezing the balls he shot one a foot behind the line and ran out. While the other guy was racking he glanced at me to see if I saw.
Bottom line l lay my cue across the table while spotting balls since then