The art of winning

petie

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Something Billie said in the "rate yourself" thread made me think of this which is one of my favorite subjects. I have long noticed that winners have certain attributes that help them win. What are they? Can we catalogue them and thereby strive to emulate them to our own benefit? Moreover, what determines the winner in One Pocket?

Some examples of my thoughts are:
Every great champion has been soundly defeated at one time or another and picked himself up only to come back and win. This heart of a lion defines winners.

The winner of a One Pocket match is usually the one who felt more comfortable. If I feel comfortable, I play better all the way around. My goal is to keep the opponent uncomfortable.

Adaptability is key to winning. Finding a way to win is often the only way to win. Manufacturing a new strategy right on the spot can make the difference the same way it did with Ali and Forman.

Stay in the moment.

These are some of my thoughts and I have more but let's hear some of yours.
 

gulfportdoc

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I believe that the single most valuable attribute that true champions have, all else being equal, is their ability to shrug off bad rolls or their poor shots.

Everyone can get briefly disgusted with something that happened, but the best players don't dwell on it. And they never take misfortune and broaden it into a negative mind-set in which there's no way they're able to win that game, match, set, or day. IOW there's never an excuse for them to lose.

Someone mentioned staying in the moment. Anyone who can achieve that (or allow that) has a gift from the gods. Some people are blessed with that ability, most are not. I've worked off an on for many years trying to acquire that state of mind at will. Once in awhile it works, and it's a great state of being. In that mind frame, one is not concerned with what happened two minutes ago, or what will happen five minutes from now, because one is fully engaged in the exact present.

~Doc
 

LSJohn

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I sometimes hear a player criticized for being "overconfident." IMO, this is more asset than liability.

It can lead to matchup mistakes, but we've all seen these guys "fire the lock off" or "overcome the nuts." It also causes an occasional ill-advised flyer, but being comfortable and confident at the table are the most important things that determine whether a player will play to or above his ability.

For us "normal" people, patience and restraint and the good judgment to know when to turn down an 80% shot and when to shoot a risky 10%-er.
 

jrhendy

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Something Billie said in the "rate yourself" thread made me think of this which is one of my favorite subjects. I have long noticed that winners have certain attributes that help them win. What are they? Can we catalogue them and thereby strive to emulate them to our own benefit? Moreover, what determines the winner in One Pocket?

Some examples of my thoughts are:
Every great champion has been soundly defeated at one time or another and picked himself up only to come back and win. This heart of a lion defines winners.

The winner of a One Pocket match is usually the one who felt more comfortable. If I feel comfortable, I play better all the way around. My goal is to keep the opponent uncomfortable.

Adaptability is key to winning. Finding a way to win is often the only way to win. Manufacturing a new strategy right on the spot can make the difference the same way it did with Ali and Forman.

Stay in the moment.

These are some of my thoughts and I have more but let's hear some of yours.

While as I stated before, I was never a great player, I have played many of them over the years and the ones that stand out in my mind are: RA - He could snatch victory away from you when you were sure you had the game in hand with shots no other player could make. Grady - He seemed to be able to invent a shot for the situation at hand. He gave me 8/6 and tortured me in the 70's when I thought I could play. Keith McCready - He was not recognized as a great one pocket player, but he beat me 9/7 around the same time I played Grady. Worst thing you could do was put him in a situation where he had to shoot. Scott Frost - Beat me twice giving me 10/5 in the last few years. I didn't believe it the first time and tried it again with the same results. Gets you out of your game with his ball running ability and gets you doubting yourself, a bad thing in one pocket.

It was hard for me to get comfortable against any of these guys and you just do not play your best game. When you are getting a spot you are admitting to yourself you are an inferior player and your best game will not show up.
 

androd

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It was hard for me to get comfortable against any of these guys and you just do not play your best game. When you are getting a spot you are admitting to yourself you are an inferior player and your best game will not show up.

I played Grady well more than 100 games, in the 70's.
I played Keith 10ball with a big spot, he missed one ball in eight hours.
I watched him play one pocket and he played very very well.
I never played RA, but saw him play a few times, he was something.

When I played Greg Stevens, I'd give someone a jelly to watch for his fouls and tell me when it was my shot. If you watched him play you'd be hypnotized and never play your speed. He was the most overpowering player I played.
Rod.
 

LSJohn

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I played Grady well more than 100 games, in the 70's.
I played Keith 10ball with a big spot, he missed one ball in eight hours.
I watched him play one pocket and he played very very well.
I never played RA, but saw him play a few times, he was something.

When I played Greg Stevens, I'd give someone a jelly to watch for his fouls and tell me when it was my shot. If you watched him play you'd be hypnotized and never play your speed. He was the most overpowering player I played.
Rod.

I didn't see Grady or RA in their primes, but I did see Stevens very near his prime, and he was the best shot-maker I ever saw. I never saw him play one pocket, but I saw some snooker action that made me shake my head. His greatest asset was.... uh... ....pharmacology. :eek:
 

Jeff sparks

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I played Grady well more than 100 games, in the 70's.
I played Keith 10ball with a big spot, he missed one ball in eight hours.
I watched him play one pocket and he played very very well.
I never played RA, but saw him play a few times, he was something.

When I played Greg Stevens, I'd give someone a jelly to watch for his fouls and tell me when it was my shot. If you watched him play you'd be hypnotized and never play your speed. He was the most overpowering player I played.
Rod.

Not sure if I should even post on this thread about my experience, as it deals mostly with 9 ball. But I have played some of the good players of yesteryear some one pocket getting various spots from each. I lost most of the time due mainly to my lack of knowledge about the game and it's intricate moves. Grady always gave me 9/7, and it was always close, Red gave me 9/7 and stole my money, Danny Jones and I played even and he stole my stuff, Duke gave me 8/7 and robbed me the only time we played, Rodney and I played a few years ago and if I'm not mistaken I won the first time and he won the second and third time, not exactly sure. Maybe he remembers, I just know he figured out how to beat me and did it with ease the second time we played.

Well I can tell you this about being comfortable at the table, if you think you have a good game, or if you think you are the best player and will beat your opponent, you will be comfortable and relaxed and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound!

On the other hand, if you have doubt in your heart about either of the previous,
you will dog it, it's inevitable! You will as John said, play below your potential.

Playing tough competition all the time is IMO, by far the fastest way to develop skills and confidence! If you have the potential and the passion, if it's truly there, and you have all the capabilities, then a great player will be born!
 
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Jeff sparks

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I didn't see Grady or RA in their primes, but I did see Stevens very near his prime, and he was the best shot-maker I ever saw. I never saw him play one pocket, but I saw some snooker action that made me shake my head. His greatest asset was.... uh... ....pharmacology. :eek:

Yep, it was a log jam trying to get to play him on the 6th consecutive day and night he had been playing! That's right, he would play for 6 straight days and nights and beat everybody, have a good bankroll and lose it all to whoever was able to get him when the speed no longer helped.

I saw it happen almost every week, he would start over, getting staked or borrowing a few bucks and playing in the noon insurance game or the golf game on the snooker table. He'd beat it, of course, and just steadily pump up all day and night giving up huge spots to non players who just wanted to say they played Greg.

He was burning hell when he got the mix just right, he could a cut a ball so thin that the CB would go up and down the table 3 times before the OB finally creeped into the corner pocket! It was indeed something to see! No doubt, the greatest shotmaker I ever saw in action, hell, great players wouldn't even attempt some the the shots he made routinely.

Greg played with a massive slip stroke, and he slipped so much and so often on that silk thread wrap that it was fused! That's a fact, all the thread was fused together into a solid mass, you couldn't see the threads anymore! I know that's hard to believe, but it's the gospel, looked like a glass wrap!

Man what a player, he could get out from the damnedest spots, and in a heartbeat, he played super fast, never saw anyone who could run a rack faster or eat a hamburger as fast as Greg. He'd eat two burgers before you could chalk up your cue and shoot.

Great competitor, never complained, total action junkie.
I liked him a lot.
He ended up back in Witchita, with a room of his own, NO GAMBLING ALLOWED!! You couldn't bet a dollar, and if you did, he'd ask you to leave.
 

vapros

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I'm certain that the consistent winners in almost any sport, including ours, have to have a super gear that they can call on for the crucial shot facing them. It is not possible to play in this gear all the time - your skull would crack and your brains would run out on the table. But when they come to the shot that they have to make, they make it.

Being schizoid myself, it is out of my reach. Guess I am a flat-liner. But I have seen it in a few other people. I can only imagine . . .:rolleyes:
 

wincardona

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I believe that the single most valuable attribute that true champions have, all else being equal, is their ability to shrug off bad rolls or their poor shots.

Everyone can get briefly disgusted with something that happened, but the best players don't dwell on it. And they never take misfortune and broaden it into a negative mind-set in which there's no way they're able to win that game, match, set, or day. IOW there's never an excuse for them to lose.

Someone mentioned staying in the moment. Anyone who can achieve that (or allow that) has a gift from the gods. Some people are blessed with that ability, most are not. I've worked off an on for many years trying to acquire that state of mind at will. Once in awhile it works, and it's a great state of being. In that mind frame, one is not concerned with what happened two minutes ago, or what will happen five minutes from now, because one is fully engaged in the exact present.

~Doc

Excellent post, I agree 100% with your advice, good emotional management is the key to get the most from your game. Once we allow ourselves to become emotionally challenged that's when our concentration and focus starts to break down.:( But like you say, some can do it and some can't but we all can improve on it, I believe.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Excellent post, I agree 100% with your advice, good emotional management is the key to get the most from your game. Once we allow ourselves to become emotionally challenged that's when our concentration and focus starts to break down.:( But like you say, some can do it and some can't but we all can improve on it, I believe.

Dr. Bill

Believing in yourself is key, understanding your ability and playing to it and not against it will keep you in good stroke. Playing with the mindset of an overachiever will not work out well playing pool, i'm sure you know what I mean. Play often and hard when you play, develop a feel for what you're doing and trust your instincts, even if their wrong. We can always make adjustments or modify our mistakes after we experience the results then our instincts will be for the better and our game will stay strong. That's what confidence is all about..TRUST. Shooting the wrong shot with confidence works out better than shooting the right shot without confidence does, usually.:D

Dr. Bill
 

pvclou

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The art of winning

This may be my most favorite thread. Thanks to you all for sharing your wisdom.
 

jrhendy

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I believe that the single most valuable attribute that true champions have, all else being equal, is their ability to shrug off bad rolls or their poor shots.

Everyone can get briefly disgusted with something that happened, but the best players don't dwell on it. And they never take misfortune and broaden it into a negative mind-set in which there's no way they're able to win that game, match, set, or day. IOW there's never an excuse for them to lose.

Someone mentioned staying in the moment. Anyone who can achieve that (or allow that) has a gift from the gods. Some people are blessed with that ability, most are not. I've worked off an on for many years trying to acquire that state of mind at will. Once in awhile it works, and it's a great state of being. In that mind frame, one is not concerned with what happened two minutes ago, or what will happen five minutes from now, because one is fully engaged in the exact present.

~Doc

Great post Doc and you are describing me and my current game just like you have been sweating my matches.

I have 2 or 3 local players I match up with and we usually play 6 to 8 hours. I am coming out of a recent bout with cellulitis again and my stamina is shot. I guess it is a combination of age catching up and the after effects of the illness, but after a few hours I just hit the wall. My mechanics go south along with my attitude.

The biggest problem is I really am not accepting it well, and am losing my composure and getting mad at myself at the table. I am fighting it and it is costing me some piece of mind and a little $$.

I have always been a long winded player and hope I can get my stamina back, hopefully before DCC.
 

Tom Wirth

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I haven't read all the posts on this thread but I'll be willing to bet they all have common points. So at the risk of repeating what someone else has already stated I'll throw this out. Brad Gilbert the tennis player from a couple decades ago wrote a book called "Winning Ugly" and he touches on all of this. Winning ugly is simply finding a way to win when playing sub par.

Understanding how to do this first requires an acceptance that an adjustment must be made to our typical style and shot choices. At least until our normal game returns. It is the art of survival. Learning how to hang in there until your self confidence returns is a skill in itself. This, I think is what Rob was saying earlier when he alluded to Alex's poor play in his early matches in the recent N.O. tournament.

He survived, knowing that at some point his normal game would eventually show up. Knowing that your average game is good enough to beat the field is a strong confidence booster. Thinking that powerful game is in there somewhere, and giving it time to show up is the key to success.
 

onepockethacker

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One thing that made a big difference in my mental game when I was younger was when we were at a Florida Tour event around 2000 in Melbourne Florida. I was with my wife and I was playing a match and she went next door to look at some of the stuff they were selling. She found a book called Phil Capelles mind for pool and she bought it. John Ditoro read a couple of pages and he went next door and bought it and then Dennis Searing did the same thing. It is all about the mental part of the game. Staying focused, positive, believing in yourself, how to deal with adversity etc.. It made a world of difference in my pool game. I used to read certain chapters and pages before big money matches or tournaments.. Unfortunately I loaned it out and never got it back, I quit for 3 years a little while after that and never bothered to get another copy when I came back playing. Now that I think about it, that could be the one missing piece to help get my motivation for the game back... I would recommend that book to everyone.
 

androd

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One other point is motivation, Someone, maybe Jack Taylor said I was the best short money player he knew.
After I got money I was all over the place, when gambling with people I knew I was very lackadaisical.
I played pretty well against strangers and good players, and tried many as I was always motivated to play well.
The difference was I could motivate myself to play my speed and not worry about who they were or what everyone tried to tell me about them. I didn't listen, and consequently had fair results against them. :)
Rod.
 

petie

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One other point is motivation, Someone, maybe Jack Taylor said I was the best short money player he knew.
After I got money I was all over the place, when gambling with people I knew I was very lackadaisical.
I played pretty well against strangers and good players, and tried many as I was always motivated to play well.
The difference was I could motivate myself to play my speed and not worry about who they were or what everyone tried to tell me about them. I didn't listen, and consequently had fair results against them. :)
Rod.

This made me think of something Earl Strickland told me a long time ago. I was practicing in the green room at a tournament West of Chicago about 1987 or so (I'm guessing.) He came in to warm up for his upcoming match. Since I had no match coming up, and because he was Earl Strickland, I started to unscrew and let him have the table. He stopped me and we played for a while. I forget who his match was but I commented that he was a very dangerous opponent. Earl said, "Man, I can't have too much respect for these guys 'cause I've got to play them." When I thought about it, it made pretty good sense. Another way of saying it was a young man by the nickname of Baby Josh. He was Sonny Springer’s nephew and had just finished Chiropractor school. He put it like this, “I might dog the ball because I’m me, but I’m not going to dog the ball because you’re you.”
 

Jimmy B

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For up and comers I would advise against hanging out in a room if you want to play serious money pool. Go in and train or match up and if there is nothing to do, take off. IF something comes up, they can call you.. Hanging out and fooling around and talking to detectives and the crowd will cause you to go backwards if you're not careful. It can get you into a bad frame of mind and before long you will start thinking you can't beat anybody. If you can't find action in your room, go to a bar or tavern and play five dollar eight ball, if you have to. Ray Martins book gave me a couple of good tips when I was young. Point The Way by Monk gave me a couple of valuable tips also about muscle control and exercises to get still and relax all muscles in the body and get set up. Try to gamble every single day to stay in the groove, so to speak....
 

RedCard

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One thing that made a big difference in my mental game when I was younger was when we were at a Florida Tour event around 2000 in Melbourne Florida. I was with my wife and I was playing a match and she went next door to look at some of the stuff they were selling. She found a book called Phil Capelles mind for pool and she bought it. John Ditoro read a couple of pages and he went next door and bought it and then Dennis Searing did the same thing. It is all about the mental part of the game. Staying focused, positive, believing in yourself, how to deal with adversity etc.. It made a world of difference in my pool game. I used to read certain chapters and pages before big money matches or tournaments.. Unfortunately I loaned it out and never got it back, I quit for 3 years a little while after that and never bothered to get another copy when I came back playing. Now that I think about it, that could be the one missing piece to help get my motivation for the game back... I would recommend that book to everyone.


[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Cuestix-CueStix-BKMFP-MIND-POOL/dp/B001FY0EA6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1433606073&sr=8-1&keywords=Phil+Capelle%27s+Mind+for+Pool[/ame]
 

petie

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Citrus Springs, FL
For up and comers I would advise against hanging out in a room if you want to play serious money pool. Go in and train or match up and if there is nothing to do, take off. IF something comes up, they can call you.. Hanging out and fooling around and talking to detectives and the crowd will cause you to go backwards if you're not careful. It can get you into a bad frame of mind and before long you will start thinking you can't beat anybody. If you can't find action in your room, go to a bar or tavern and play five dollar eight ball, if you have to. Ray Martins book gave me a couple of good tips when I was young. Point The Way by Monk gave me a couple of valuable tips also about muscle control and exercises to get still and relax all muscles in the body and get set up. Try to gamble every single day to stay in the groove, so to speak....

And stay away from young girls.
 
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