Smith/Bergman

J

Jeff sparks

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Apr 2, 2015
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3,324
From
Houston, Texas
To become a better player, if I have to circle the table 4 or 5 times and review every conceivable shot from a vertical position and then a horizontal position, play out all the CB positions from every possible angle and study all of these multiple times before finally deciding on a shot.... Well I'm afraid I am doomed to play at or below my existing level forever...

While I admire a player who is deliberate, ( I'm striving for that ) tolerating the pace which several of the worlds best players use on every single shot is mind numbing... I can't remember a single great player out of the past who played anywhere near as slow as some of the top pros of today... I can understand taking ones time, I have no problem with a reasonable amount of deliberation, but on every shot, every time, even if perfect position is achieved... It puts me to sleep...dunno, maybe it's my age that puts me to sleep... :) Being careful is good, no doubt about it, but c'mon, this guy Bergman makes Pagulayan look like the roadrunner!!!

I see why Hendy used the term "Grind" when referring to Bergman winning against Smith, he definitely grinds on his opponent, not only with skillful play, but with a pace that is hard for anyone to fade...

Some people who play one pocket don't care to watch it, I know several right here in Houston who wouldn't walk across the street to see the best players on the planet play for 10 billion dollars.. These people just wanna play, they could care less about watching... However, some of those who do like to watch a tough match now and then are turned off by the length of time used to complete just one inning at the table...

Me, I love watching the game, I'm excited and interested in learning new things about the game, I'm a big fan of one pocket and even though I'm old, I still burn with the desire to improve.. My brain tells me it won't happen, ( to damn stupid) but my heart wants to keep going at it...

When I watch Bergmans pace, I get pissed, I try very hard to understand that everybody is different and that each person try's to develop a pace that best fits their style of play.. For the life of me, I cannot adapt to watching his pace, it puts me to sleep and I wake up an hour later, still pissed, wondering what happened.. it's just to damn slow for me... I can only imagine how it affects whoever he plays....

That said, I'm going to watch as much of it as I can fade tonight...:lol
 
cincy_kid

cincy_kid

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Nov 23, 2015
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Cincinnati, OH
Hey Jeff, same thing John kind of said in the other thread and also something I read on azb. I didnt get the stream and glad I did not now because its hard enough for me to watch it (and not play) but if its at a snail's pace it would drive me mad!

I am sure I am in the minority here but I would love to see some sort of timer or shot clock be implemented. I just dont think it will ever happen unless its in some big tourney where they have the refs keeping the time.

I dont know, but I see your point Jeff - just not sure it can be fixed!
 
B

baby huey

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Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,962
Justin plays all the games "deliberately." So, it would stand to reason that one pocket would also be played slow. I hear what you are saying Sparks but some players, probably including myself, like to be thoughtful, which is my word for slow such that the shot selected is the best one one could come up with. Justin is a force and he is getting better. Probably his ability to play all the games well is what propelled him over Oscar Dominguez to the Mosconi Cup even though their rotation game is pretty close to each other. Sorry for the off subject of the Mosconi Cup......
 
crabbcatjohn

crabbcatjohn

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Nov 30, 2014
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Benton, Ky.
Yes, it gets old watching Justin up and down on every shot. But the positive is listening to JJ giving his take on every shot looked at by each guy during their thought processes. His commentary is second to none.
 
L

LSJohn

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Aug 15, 2013
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From
monett missouri
jerry matchin said:
Justin plays all the games "deliberately." So, it would stand to reason that one pocket would also be played slow. I hear what you are saying Sparks but some players, probably including myself, like to be thoughtful, which is my word for slow such that the shot selected is the best one one could come up with. Justin is a force and he is getting better. Probably his ability to play all the games well is what propelled him over Oscar Dominguez to the Mosconi Cup even though their rotation game is pretty close to each other. Sorry for the off subject of the Mosconi Cup......
Click to expand...

If people who know him and his pace choose to gamble with him, I understand. Being saddled with playing him in a tournament would be borderline criminal. To enjoy watching him I'd also have to enjoy fishing dawn to dusk and catching 3 keepers and a rubber boot.

A shot clock would be impractical about 99% of the time, but if there were a way it would have a positive impact on growth of the game. (I hope people just starting to play 1P weren't watching last night.)
 
L

lll

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Mar 19, 2007
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vero beach fl
i can only hope that justin as he learns the game the right shot will become more apparent and it wont take as long to shoot.
it is frustrating to watch i agree jeff
good news is you can pick who you gamble with and dont have to play a snail if you dont want to..:D
p.s. yes jeremy commentating makes the the stream worth it regardless of the pace
 
W

Wayne

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Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
444
Jeff sparks said:
To become a better player, if I have to circle the table 4 or 5 times and review every conceivable shot from a vertical position and then a horizontal position, play out all the CB positions from every possible angle and study all of these multiple times before finally deciding on a shot.... Well I'm afraid I am doomed to play at or below my existing level forever...

While I admire a player who is deliberate, ( I'm striving for that ) tolerating the pace which several of the worlds best players use on every single shot is mind numbing... I can't remember a single great player out of the past who played anywhere near as slow as some of the top pros of today... I can understand taking ones time, I have no problem with a reasonable amount of deliberation, but on every shot, every time, even if perfect position is achieved... It puts me to sleep...dunno, maybe it's my age that puts me to sleep... :) Being careful is good, no doubt about it, but c'mon, this guy Bergman makes Pagulayan look like the roadrunner!!!


I see why Hendy used the term "Grind" when referring to Bergman winning against Smith, he definitely grinds on his opponent, not only with skillful play, but with a pace that is hard for anyone to fade...

Some people who play one pocket don't care to watch it, I know several right here in Houston who wouldn't walk across the street to see the best players on the planet play for 10 billion dollars.. These people just wanna play, they could care less about watching... However, some of those who do like to watch a tough match now and then are turned off by the length of time used to complete just one inning at the table...

Me, I love watching the game, I'm excited and interested in learning new things about the game, I'm a big fan of one pocket and even though I'm old, I still burn with the desire to improve.. My brain tells me it won't happen, ( to damn stupid) but my heart wants to keep going at it...

When I watch Bergmans pace, I get pissed, I try very hard to understand that everybody is different and that each person try's to develop a pace that best fits their style of play.. For the life of me, I cannot adapt to watching his pace, it puts me to sleep and I wake up an hour later, still pissed, wondering what happened.. it's just to damn slow for me... I can only imagine how it affects whoever he plays....

That said, I'm going to watch as much of it as I can fade tonight...:lol
Click to expand...

I know if everyone played as slow as the 10 slowest players I have ever played in 1 pocket I would have quit the game a long time ago. Fortunately, where I play in Santa Monica, the 15 or so players I match up with all play at a fairly quick pace. At Hard Times there is a couple of players whose pace gets to me but for the most part all players there play at a pretty good pace also. I have played a couple of players from Las Vegas that were so slow that I would watch other matches while waiting for them. I had one guy from Northern California that I was gambling with and I was up a fair amount but couldn't take it anymore and just told him to pay the time and sacrificed my winnings rather than my sanity.
Slow play sucks.
 
L

LSJohn

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monett missouri
lll said:
i can only hope that justin as he learns the game the right shot will become more apparent and it wont take as long to shoot.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong, but I think it's a personality trait that isn't going to change. Something like OCD. He'd have to be a Billionaire to afford Kamui chalk.
 
cincy_kid

cincy_kid

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Wayne said:
I know if everyone played as slow as the 10 slowest players I have ever played in 1 pocket I would have quit the game a long time ago. Fortunately, where I play in Santa Monica, the 15 or so players I match up with all play at a fairly quick pace. At Hard Times there is a couple of players whose pace gets to me but for the most part all players there play at a pretty good pace also. I have played a couple of players from Las Vegas that were so slow that I would watch other matches while waiting for them. I had one guy from Northern California that I was gambling with and I was up a fair amount but couldn't take it anymore and just told him to pay the time and sacrificed my winnings rather than my sanity.
Slow play sucks.
Click to expand...

I laughed out loud a little Wayne but I swear I have "almost" done the same thing... :)
 
J

Jeff sparks

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Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
3,324
From
Houston, Texas
LSJohn said:
I could be wrong, but I think it's a personality trait that isn't going to change. Something like OCD. He'd have to be a Billionaire to afford Kamui chalk.
Click to expand...

You are the best John :lol:lol:lol the Kamui chalk reference got me...:lol:lol:lol
I like a good laugh everyday... Good eye...:)
 
O

One pocket Smitty

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Jan 10, 2005
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749
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Chandler, Tx.
I bought the stream but Justin made me turn it off after a while. I think I would do like others have said," Hey just pay the time, I have other things to do".---Smitty
 
V

vapros

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May 24, 2004
Messages
4,809
From
baton rouge, la
In such circumstances, I think the shot clock could be the answer, if it is used correctly. The time begins when your inning begins, and when the bell goes off your inning is over. Get out of the way, Pokey, it's my turn again. :eek:
 
Billy Jackets

Billy Jackets

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Sep 3, 2011
Messages
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Jeff sparks said:
To become a better player, if I have to circle the table 4 or 5 times and review every conceivable shot from a vertical position and then a horizontal position, play out all the CB positions from every possible angle and study all of these multiple times before finally deciding on a shot.... Well I'm afraid I am doomed to play at or below my existing level forever...

While I admire a player who is deliberate, ( I'm striving for that ) tolerating the pace which several of the worlds best players use on every single shot is mind numbing... I can't remember a single great player out of the past who played anywhere near as slow as some of the top pros of today... I can understand taking ones time, I have no problem with a reasonable amount of deliberation, but on every shot, every time, even if perfect position is achieved... It puts me to sleep...dunno, maybe it's my age that puts me to sleep... :) Being careful is good, no doubt about it, but c'mon, this guy Bergman makes Pagulayan look like the roadrunner!!!

I see why Hendy used the term "Grind" when referring to Bergman winning against Smith, he definitely grinds on his opponent, not only with skillful play, but with a pace that is hard for anyone to fade...

Some people who play one pocket don't care to watch it, I know several right here in Houston who wouldn't walk across the street to see the best players on the planet play for 10 billion dollars.. These people just wanna play, they could care less about watching... However, some of those who do like to watch a tough match now and then are turned off by the length of time used to complete just one inning at the table...

Me, I love watching the game, I'm excited and interested in learning new things about the game, I'm a big fan of one pocket and even though I'm old, I still burn with the desire to improve.. My brain tells me it won't happen, ( to damn stupid) but my heart wants to keep going at it...

When I watch Bergmans pace, I get pissed, I try very hard to understand that everybody is different and that each person try's to develop a pace that best fits their style of play.. For the life of me, I cannot adapt to watching his pace, it puts me to sleep and I wake up an hour later, still pissed, wondering what happened.. it's just to damn slow for me... I can only imagine how it affects whoever he plays....

That said, I'm going to watch as much of it as I can fade tonight...:lol
Click to expand...

I don't mind someone taking their time to look the shot over from all angles.
I do mind when they get down in the shooting position and turn the cue 400 times while sawing at the air, moving their ring finger back and forth,I also don't like when Alex gets down on a shot and spends 3 or 4 minutes on it , then drops the shaft into space.
It was funny the first time I saw it 10 years ago or so , now it is ridiculous.
 
L

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
19,095
From
vero beach fl
i think jason
pre shot routine
is up/down/up down/ rinse and repeat
i respect his skill
but would hate to play him
or look for his dvds
the only positive
is he gives jeremy more time to spill his knowledge
thank you jeremy
:)
 
Last edited:
Island Drive

Island Drive

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May 1, 2011
Messages
5,196
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florence, colorado
All that's really needed is this. Shoot the venue live, get a good editor, and condense the match into 10 second intervals for each shot, then release the finished product to the public. They do it all the time in movies. Do this with Bergman....then sell the finished product to the viewers. When I oversaw the Jr. Nationals at Magoo's on Tulsa, I got ta watch em play quite a bit, he never played slow in his youth.
 
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