congrats to scott but i am disappointed no deceased player made it

lll

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i guess maybe next year.
its a shame our hall of fame wont remember the real old timers who paved the way for the players of today
jmho
icbw
i cant edit the title but it should be PLAYER
 
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gulfportdoc

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Yeah, I imagined that there would be a deceased player inducted as well as a living champ. Perhaps Ervolino or Camp had no relations to contact or to represent.

But we'll see if they come up with a "lifetime in action" inductee this year.

~Doc
 

NH Steve

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Yeah, I imagined that there would be a deceased player inducted as well as a living champ. Perhaps Ervolino or Camp had no relations to contact or to represent.

But we'll see if they come up with a "lifetime in action" inductee this year.

~Doc
I don't have anyone for Camp for sure. I've also always looked for the candidate to get to 30% of the vote at some point that they have been on the ballot -- even if it is not this year. Baseball I think players need to be named on 75% just to stay on the ballot.

But I am open to your arguments! Keep them coming!
 

lll

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the problem is as the voters get younger the old timers probably dont get as many votes since they dont know them or heard of them.
baseball has an "oldtimers" committee or something like that for players from past generations
i would think onepocket.org would pay homage to the players of the past that the players from around that era all respected
johnny lineen and marcel camp frequently get mentioned with respect from the old timers.
steve you have interviewed many of the old timers and i think you will agree
p.s. steve can you please correct the typo in the thread title....PLAYER ...not palyer:eek:
thanks
 

jlcomp45

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the problem is as the voters get younger the old timers probably dont get as many votes since they dont know them or heard of them.
baseball has an "oldtimers" committee or something like that for players from past generations
i would think onepocket.org would pay homage to the players of the past that the players from around that era all respected
johnny lineen and marcel camp frequently get mentioned with respect from the old timers.
steve you have interviewed many of the old timers and i think you will agree
p.s. steve can you please correct the typo in the thread title....PLAYER ...not palyer:eek:
thanks

I think it would be awesome if there were some form of committee that were responsible for the deceased player inductions. I know I'm not qualified to make any determinations for worthiness (I cast my votes based on the words of others) - but while we still have members who actually remember them we should take advantage of it. I'd love to hear the thoughts of both Steve & Dr. Bill on whether that's a possibility.

John
 

crabbcatjohn

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I thought it was decided last year we were doing one alive and one deceased every year until we got caught up on the deceased players?
 

Jimmy B

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the problem is as the voters get younger the old timers probably dont get as many votes since they dont know them or heard of them.
baseball has an "oldtimers" committee or something like that for players from past generations
i would think onepocket.org would pay homage to the players of the past that the players from around that era all respected
johnny lineen and marcel camp frequently get mentioned with respect from the old timers.
steve you have interviewed many of the old timers and i think you will agree
p.s. steve can you please correct the typo in the thread title....PLAYER ...not palyer:eek:
thanks



You said it, Larry.. I voted Camp because I knew Johnny Irish didn't even have a chance.. But.. check this excerpt-Beard- TEOPH.. You already know all this...

"I ended up hanging out at Jack Kramer's Cue And Cushion on 79th and Biscayne, in the winter. It was a standard stop for many top players to wait out the northern cold. Marcel Camp, Minnesota Fats, Brooklyn Jimmy Cassas, Brooklyn Johnny Ervolino, Tommy Staten Island Halliday, Bunny Rogoff, Peter Rabbit linhard, Danny DiLiberto, New York Harry Cohen, Little Miami Isaac Gonzales, Kokomo Joe, Gene Skinner, Richie 'from the Bronx, Ambrose, Mike Carella, Surfer Rod, Kilroy Kosmolski, New York Scarface ETC.

At Kramer's I learned that Johnny 'Irish' Lineen had spent the previous winter there.. In the course of many jackpots that were cut up, I learned that he was UNANIMOUSLY regarded as the best player ever to have played there. This included Straight Pool, Nine Ball, One Pocket, and Three-Cushion. The fact that he was held in such regard was really something, considering the lineup that was there on a daily basis. Unfortunately, I never got to see Irish play, because he died soon after"
 

BackPocket9Ball

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I think we should definitely induct one deceased player ... for all the reasons mentioned above and in other threads.

Steve, I hope you reconsider.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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I wanted to just vote for Ervolino for he came to the Palace in '71 and goofed around with 15 yr. old future world champion Robin Bell (Dobson) some OP. He let her use his $3500 diamond inlayed cue. He traveled with a little dog, and the dog jumped up on the table, stoled the cb, and ran around the pool room and then came back and placed it in the 'exact spot'. I felt; 'what a great ambassador for pool, and what a great night for pool'.
But with Camp 1 vote ahead of Ervolino, I could not cancel out what would be more knowledgeable votes for Camp. Now if Ervolino, Camp, and Lineen were tied, I would of definitely voted for Lineen. Whitey
 
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BackPocket9Ball

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I know that actual skill is just one of several induction factors, but from what I've heard and read, Irish was the best one pocket player out of the three.
 

gulfportdoc

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I don't have anyone for Camp for sure. I've also always looked for the candidate to get to 30% of the vote at some point that they have been on the ballot -- even if it is not this year. Baseball I think players need to be named on 75% just to stay on the ballot.

But I am open to your arguments! Keep them coming!

The 30% method is understandable, and it would be especially effective with living players. As it is, Lineen, Camp and Ervolino are only known by a small group, so the membership at large has nothing but hearsay to base a potential vote.

IMO it is enough to have heard all the believable first hand tales of these guys' prowess, and to therefore gradually chip away at them until they're all included. One method might be to take the deceased player with the most votes and induct him. Then either put the other in the following year, or put the others up again at that time.

It sounds like most of the guys agree that the top players from the past ought to be recognized and memorialized.

~Doc
 

lll

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The 30% method is understandable, and it would be especially effective with living players. As it is, Lineen, Camp and Ervolino are only known by a small group, so the membership at large has nothing but hearsay to base a potential vote.

IMO it is enough to have heard all the believable first hand tales of these guys' prowess, and to therefore gradually chip away at them until they're all included. One method might be to take the deceased player with the most votes and induct him. Then either put the other in the following year, or put the others up again at that time.

It sounds like most of the guys agree that the top players from the past ought to be recognized and memorialized.

~Doc
doc
i dont know how a classically trained percussionist
gone avant garde
gone into medicine and science
can be so eloquent and erudite....:)
that being said
i agree....:D
 

Scrzbill

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The 30% method is understandable, and it would be especially effective with living players. As it is, Lineen, Camp and Ervolino are only known by a small group, so the membership at large has nothing but hearsay to base a potential vote.

IMO it is enough to have heard all the believable first hand tales of these guys' prowess, and to therefore gradually chip away at them until they're all included. One method might be to take the deceased player with the most votes and induct him. Then either put the other in the following year, or put the others up again at that time.

It sounds like most of the guys agree that the top players from the past ought to be recognized and memorialized.

~Doc

I have for many years argued that the older players who were already legends when I started be inducted by Fiat. I don’t vote for any of them because I didn’t know them. Who played some of them, not me!
 

jrhendy

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I wanted to just vote for Ervolino for he came to the Palace in '71 and goofed around with 15 yr. old future world champion Robin Bell (Dobson) some OP. He let her use his $3500 diamond inlayed cue. He traveled with a little dog, and the dog jumped up on the table, stoled the cb, and ran around the pool room and then came back and placed it in the 'exact spot'. I felt; 'what a great ambassador for pool, and what a great night for pool'.
But with Camp 1 vote ahead of Ervolino, I could not cancel out what would be more knowledgeable votes for Camp. Now if Ervolino, Camp, and Lineen were tied, I would of definitely voted for Lineen. Whitey

Ervolino was a great player, but someone IMO who would rather get the $ by hook or crook than win on the square. I knew him, gambled with him, and played him in tournaments a time or two. He was loved by many, but will never get my vote. When we have a place for likeable crooks, he is a shoe in.
 

keoneyo

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I think it is a missed opportunity to not hear some of those alive who played, gambled with, and knew guys like Marcel Camp and Johnny Ervolino. Guys like Diliberto who knew them both well. They are not going to be around much longer as me. Then all we will hear are second and third hand stories. I say we have to get them in now to record the reminiscences of those who were there.
As well as giving them due recognition.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Ervolino was a great player, but someone IMO who would rather get the $ by hook or crook than win on the square. I knew him, gambled with him, and played him in tournaments a time or two. He was loved by many, but will never get my vote. When we have a place for likeable crooks, he is a shoe in.
That is why when Camp was 1 vote ahead of Ervolino, I had decided to vote for Camp and Ervolino (others also) for I did not want to cancel out more knowledgeable votes that were cast for Camp. At the time of my vote, I did not know if coming in 2nd had some meaning or not, so I kept Camp as the 2nd. front runner ahead of Johnnie.
I was having a hard time researching and getting information on Camp. So was relying more on comments on this thread. And Johnnie I only knew from that 1 night and his Stardust record, and not personally. But, I am hearing a little bit about these underlying tactics. thanks.
 

lll

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I think it is a missed opportunity to not hear some of those alive who played, gambled with, and knew guys like Marcel Camp and Johnny Ervolino. Guys like Diliberto who knew them both well. They are not going to be around much longer as me. Then all we will hear are second and third hand stories. I say we have to get them in now to record the reminiscences of those who were there.
As well as giving them due recognition
.

i agree with you keoneyo
steve
do you hear us ??
please reconsider
talk to to our elders and ask them
 

BrookelandBilly

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Seperate the ballot into two or more categories (i.e. living, deceased and non playing contributer) and establish that at least a minimum number of inductees evey year. Having one inductee is a disappointment and not much of a draw for an induction ceremony.
 

NH Steve

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Seperate the ballot into two or more categories (i.e. living, deceased and non playing contributer) and establish that at least a minimum number of inductees evey year. Having one inductee is a disappointment and not much of a draw for an induction ceremony.

Having too many dilutes the significance of any Hall of Fame. Many of the old time players have been voted in over the years. Those that are not in at this point are either so little known there is not much we can do. Or they may have some warts to go along with their exemplary talent, and those issues are holding their vote down. Or maybe peer to peer, they were not quite at the dominant level of play, even though they were a top level player and a mentor to many -- they simply may not have had as much reach as a mentor than some of the other players who were inducted.
 
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