Scratch on the break.

EddieT

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Feb 6, 2015
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I have a question for the group. If your playing by the rules if you make a ball in your pocket on the break it's a re-rack & you break again. What would be the rule if you make a ball in your pocket but also scratch?
 

lll

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I think
you owe one spot the ball
the rule about rerack is only about making the ball
not if you scratch
jmho
icbw
 

beatle

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its a stupid way to play. one pocket takes most of the luck out of pool to begin with. now they want to take any perceived left over luck out as well.

and the break is a SKILL shot. and against a better player you may want to take more risk and try to pocket a ball on the break.

what if a guy makes a great break and hangs a ball in his hole. then play goes on. but if it goes another half inch and drops he doesnt get credit for it and has to break again. what nonsense is that.

next lets play call shot on the balls. then call on all kisses.
 

sappo

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Its a bad rule. You work hard to develop a strong break and when you hit it perfectly it doesn't count? What if you break and this time you hit it poorly and you scratch, should you get to repack and break again? Of course not, so why penalize a good break?

People say that it prevents a player from racking the rack to their advantage. It should be the other players responsibility to inspect the rack to insure it was racked properly. K
 

Scrzbill

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its a stupid way to play. one pocket takes most of the luck out of pool to begin with. now they want to take any perceived left over luck out as well.

and the break is a SKILL shot. and against a better player you may want to take more risk and try to pocket a ball on the break.

what if a guy makes a great break and hangs a ball in his hole. then play goes on. but if it goes another half inch and drops he doesnt get credit for it and has to break again. what nonsense is that.

next lets play call shot on the balls. then call on all kisses.

Thank goodness I’m on my good behavior. I would add to this but it is said quite well here
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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I like Beetle's comment also! I think you'll find in DCC that a scoring ball made on the break is a re-rack, but when you scratch it is then treated as any other break, ball in hand, loss of a point. I agree with Larry!

You will not find this specifically stated this way under DCC OP rules. So then we have to rely on the OP game rule, a scratch on the break is ball in hand. Whitey
 

darmoose

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I have a question for the group. If your playing by the rules if you make a ball in your pocket on the break it's a re-rack & you break again. What would be the rule if you make a ball in your pocket but also scratch?

So, one of the most exsasperating aspects that too often pops up in this forum is that so many people apparently can't read. :lol The OP question set a circumstance which was the basis of his question. It was that they were playing by the rule that if you make a ball you rerack.

Many replies totally ignored his question, and chose to opine on the rule they were playing by instead, revealing some strongly held belief, albeit, unsolicited.

To answer your question Eddie, the made ball should be spotted, the score is -1 for the breaker and zero for the non-breaker, and it is the non-breakers shot with BIH behind the line. This is the same result that you would get if you weren't playing "rerack". I am sure that when the "rerack rule was conceived, it was not anticipated that the breaker could negate the penalty for scratching by making a ball on the break, and thereby getting a "do over":sorry

I think this "rerack" rule is a product of the desire of some to rack their own, and of their opponent's mistrust of their motive, same as the shenanigans going on with 9 ball racking, and it makes perfect sense if your gonna allow the breaker to touch the balls before he breaks.:rolleyes:

I too, would eliminate this rule you are asking about, by never allowing an opponent to rack his own, something that never used to exist, until recently in my experience.
 
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chicagomike

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its a stupid way to play. one pocket takes most of the luck out of pool to begin with. now they want to take any perceived left over luck out as well.

and the break is a SKILL shot. and against a better player you may want to take more risk and try to pocket a ball on the break.

what if a guy makes a great break and hangs a ball in his hole. then play goes on. but if it goes another half inch and drops he doesnt get credit for it and has to break again. what nonsense is that.

next lets play call shot on the balls. then call on all kisses.

One pocket probably has just as much luck if not more than other games...considering you can shoot any ball/balls any kind of way you want I think luck plays a BIG part in the end result of alot of one pocket shots.

Around Chicago there are many players who agree to play re-rack if a ball is made on the break. I think it's a fine way to play as long as both players agree to it.

Control of the CB on the break is skill...the end position of the object balls and sometimes the CB is luck.

Yes...if playing re-rack rules the ball drops in the hole it's a re-rack. If them's the rules than them's the rules.:eek:
 

gulfportdoc

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One pocket probably has just as much luck if not more than other games...considering you can shoot any ball/balls any kind of way you want I think luck plays a BIG part in the end result of alot of one pocket shots.

Around Chicago there are many players who agree to play re-rack if a ball is made on the break. I think it's a fine way to play as long as both players agree to it.

Control of the CB on the break is skill...the end position of the object balls and sometimes the CB is luck.

Yes...if playing re-rack rules the ball drops in the hole it's a re-rack. If them's the rules than them's the rules.:eek:
You made some good points, Mike. If the re-rack rule is being used, then it would be the premier consideration regarding the outcome of the break.

Regarding luck in 1P, I like what Buddy Hall said. There is less bad luck in 1P because there is more play. In other words, since there are more shots available, it's less likely for the shooter to end up in a blind alley.

I agree that the skill in the break shot is in cue ball control. The skill is in splitting the first two balls in the best possible way, to avoid kissing the corner ball, and using the proper speed to stay behind the stack.

Having a ball drop on the break is dumb luck. There are a myriad of uncontrollable variables that result in a ball on the break. If a guy were to practice the break shot all day for a month, he would not be any more likely to pocket a ball on the break the next time he tee'd it up in general play. If skill made it more likely to pocket a ball on the break, then the top players would have a much higher percentage of doing so. But they do not. And that's why --if one-pocket is to be considered a game of skill-- I'm in agreement with the new rule that's catching on for re-racking.

~Doc
 

lll

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my understanding is
the rule was intended to not give the breaker an "unfair " advantage to run balls because of luck.
the rule was not intended to give the breaker a mulligan if he scratches too
 

keoneyo

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I personally dont like the rerack rule. I feel that practicing the break is one of the requirements of the game. There are some who can break and get that corner ball near the hole a great percentage of the time. They practice it.
However if you do decide to play rerack then for me it must be any ball including the cue ball. For many times the cue ball goes in because of luck or unluck as the case may be.

The pros, imo, are not against luck but the ability of their opponent to run out when this situation happens. If they want to play make a ball on the break and you must play a safe after that fine. But reracking is not for me.

If you are for taking luck out of the game then if you shoot a shot and miss but go 3 rails and caroms off another ball (which has happened to me) and it goes in your pocket, does that ball come up and you lose your turn?
 

chicagomike

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I personally dont like the rerack rule. I feel that practicing the break is one of the requirements of the game. There are some who can break and get that corner ball near the hole a great percentage of the time. They practice it.
However if you do decide to play rerack then for me it must be any ball including the cue ball. For many times the cue ball goes in because of luck or unluck as the case may be.

The pros, imo, are not against luck but the ability of their opponent to run out when this situation happens. If they want to play make a ball on the break and you must play a safe after that fine. But reracking is not for me.

If you are for taking luck out of the game then if you shoot a shot and miss but go 3 rails and caroms off another ball (which has happened to me) and it goes in your pocket, does that ball come up and you lose your turn?

Does that mean you would not play if the proposed rules between your opponent and you or tournament rules included re rack if a ball is pocketed on the break?
 

catkins

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So, one of the most exsasperating aspects that too often pops up in this forum is that so many people apparently can't read. :lol The OP question set a circumstance which was the basis of his question. It was that they were playing by the rule that if you make a ball you rerack.

Many replies totally ignored his question, and chose to opine on the rule they were playing by instead, revealing some strongly held belief, albeit, unsolicited.

To answer your question Eddie, the made ball should be spotted, the score is -1 for the breaker and zero for the non-breaker, and it is the non-breakers shot with BIH behind the line. This is the same result that you would get if you weren't playing "rerack". I am sure that when the "rerack rule was conceived, it was not anticipated that the breaker could negate the penalty for scratching by making a ball on the break, and thereby getting a "do over":sorry

I think this "rerack" rule is a product of the desire of some to rack their own, and of their opponent's mistrust of their motive, same as the shenanigans going on with 9 ball racking, and it makes perfect sense if your gonna allow the breaker to touch the balls before he breaks.:rolleyes:

I too, would eliminate this rule you are asking about, by never allowing an opponent to rack his own, something that never used to exist, until recently in my experience.

This entirely implies that making a ball on the break is due to the breaker setting the rack witch is compleatley untrue in my eyes. The first time I saw this rule in effect was with tony chohan and danny smith when he first got back into pool and danny was racking and tony made many many balls on the break. So I stick with if your are not gonna get rewarded for a good break than as the rule states if a ball is made in your pocket in the break it is a rerack. That statement implies that that is the only deciding factor
 

keoneyo

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Does that mean you would not play if the proposed rules between your opponent and you or tournament rules included re rack if a ball is pocketed on the break?

It depends. If it is a onepocket.org tournament and it is going to be a enjoyable experience then Ill play if the rule says I have to wear my wifes apron . If Im in someone else's home room I'll of course play by their rules. If I really dont want to play by the rules then Ill rail.
Mostly I was talking about match up games. If my opponent desires so, I will say no. If he is adamant I would say one set your way, one set my way.
 

El Chapo

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I feel like I am always against the grain, not by design.

I like the rerack rule. It definitely only applies when you make a legal shot and make a ball, not on a foul.

The purpose is, just as an example, a huge match goes hill hill (or there is a very big game, or whatever), the guy makes a ball, then runs out or puts the game out of reach.

Breaking is already way too strong an advantage to get one extra time, and is one of the aspects of the game that needs to be dealt with and improved. This rule gets us at least some degree closer in my opinion.
 

El Chapo

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I personally dont like the rerack rule. I feel that practicing the break is one of the requirements of the game. There are some who can break and get that corner ball near the hole a great percentage of the time. They practice it.
However if you do decide to play rerack then for me it must be any ball including the cue ball. For many times the cue ball goes in because of luck or unluck as the case may be.

The pros, imo, are not against luck but the ability of their opponent to run out when this situation happens. If they want to play make a ball on the break and you must play a safe after that fine. But reracking is not for me.

If you are for taking luck out of the game then if you shoot a shot and miss but go 3 rails and caroms off another ball (which has happened to me) and it goes in your pocket, does that ball come up and you lose your turn?

That about not going more than two innings on the break inning is an interesting thought. I think the reason the top guys don't go this way is it would be pretty easy for them after making a ball to put the game nearly out of reach with a very strong position: moving a ball(s) to their hole and putting them in jail because they are on the right side of the stack to do it.
 
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