Cook vs martinez 1994

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petie

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wincardona said:
I really don't understand what you're trying to do with both the cue ball and the 6 ball. I can't envision anything good happening coming off the 6 ball.

Billy I.
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OK, the way I envision it is I hit the right hand side rail at about the 1.5 dimond near Steve's pocket. The cue ball bounces off the side rail and contacts the 6 ball at 3 o'clock on the six then continues to the end rail and back up the right hand side rail ( maybe you'll want just a touch of left hand english on the cue ball to compensate for the natural english it will pick up off the side rail.) Your speed should be such that the cue goes up about to the 3rd diamond on the right hand side rail. The six will go near your (Raf's) pocket but better to be short on the end rail than up on the left hand side rail where Steve might have a bank on it.
 
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lll

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petie said:
OK, the way I envision it is I hit the right hand side rail at about the 1.5 dimond near Steve's pocket. The cue ball bounces off the side rail and contacts the 6 ball at 3 o'clock on the six then continues to the end rail and back up the right hand side rail ( maybe you'll want just a touch of left hand english on the cue ball to compensate for the natural english it will pick up off the side rail.) Your speed should be such that the cue goes up about to the 3rd diamond on the right hand side rail. The six will go near your (Raf's) pocket but better to be short on the end rail than up on the left hand side rail where Steve might have a bank on it.
Click to expand...

petie
you can correct this approximation
if i understand you correctly
seems tough to not scratch and/or leave a bank
pp.jpg
 
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wincardona

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lll said:
petie
you can correct this approximation
if i understand you correctly
seems tough to not scratch and/or leave a bank
View attachment 4370
Click to expand...
The reasons I don't like this shot is because #1 your trailing by too much and the balls are in a possible winning position for you if given an opportunity, this shot most likely will give Steve options. #2. this shot has to be hit perfectly for you to not give up a good return shot,or an offensive one that will put balls out of play.:sorry

If you hit this shot well it looks to me like you'll still give up a bank on the 10 ball. If so Steve will have an option to bank the 10 ball with a high ball, or a low ball, depending on the angle he's offered.
Billy I.
 
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vapros

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Petie, the result you envision might be okay, but I don't think there is any way to make the shot. The picture we are looking at does not show exactly where the short rail ends and the pocket begins, but I don't think there is any rail to bounce the cueball off - certainly not enough to count on in a kick shot. Looks to me like a dead scratch. That's the way I see it, anyway. I would be trying hard to hit the 6 right in the face with a little draw, and park the cueball right there and move the 6 a bit uptable.

The next shot Martinez gets won't be any worse than this one, and it might be a little better.
 
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lll

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androd said:
Why I don't play tournaments.
Rod.

Click to expand...

rod your teeth will go bad from eating too many cookies:heh
you get another one:)
billy you are showing your (young:D)age
grady while discussing the layout mentioned he saw a "ronnie allen" shot
(not efren although he does it too)
bank the 5 and carom the 13 to you pocket moving both balls to your pocket
rafael hit it very hard
he made the 13
the 5 landed short and came off the back side of the 6 to go into steves pocket
on top of that the cueball scratched in the side pocket:eek::frus
it was a helluva shot
would have been better if he hit it alittle softer
steve won the game
cr5 (2).jpg
 
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petie

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vapros said:
Petie, the result you envision might be okay, but I don't think there is any way to make the shot. The picture we are looking at does not show exactly where the short rail ends and the pocket begins, but I don't think there is any rail to bounce the cueball off - certainly not enough to count on in a kick shot. Looks to me like a dead scratch. That's the way I see it, anyway. I would be trying hard to hit the 6 right in the face with a little draw, and park the cueball right there and move the 6 a bit uptable.

The next shot Martinez gets won't be any worse than this one, and it might be a little better.
Click to expand...

Vap, when I look at it your way, I think you might just be right.
 
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petie

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wincardona said:
The reasons I don't like this shot is because #1 your trailing by too much and the balls are in a possible winning position for you if given an opportunity, this shot most likely will give Steve options. #2. this shot has to be hit perfectly for you to not give up a good return shot,or an offensive one that will put balls out of play.:sorry

If you hit this shot well it looks to me like you'll still give up a bank on the 10 ball. If so Steve will have an option to bank the 10 ball with a high ball, or a low ball, depending on the angle he's offered.
Billy I.
Click to expand...

Billy, thanks for the reasoning and advice here. It is very instructive.
 
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wincardona

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lll said:
rod your teeth will go bad from eating too many cookies:heh
you get another one:)
billy you are showing your (young:D)age
grady while discussing the layout mentioned he saw a "ronnie allen" shot
(not efren although he does it too)
bank the 5 and carom the 13 to you pocket moving both balls to your pocket
rafael hit it very hard
he made the 13
the 5 landed short and came off the back side of the 6 to go into steves pocket
on top of that the cueball scratched in the side pocket:eek::frus
it was a helluva shot
would have been better if he hit it alittle softer
steve won the game
View attachment 4374
Click to expand...
Even though this game is over I would like to bring up how Martinez played his last shot. I like Rod's way of playing the shot by hitting the 5 ball first with a high ball. This shot will offer different results with the cue ball, the carom off the 13 ball will send the cue ball toward the 6 ball and possibly behind it. Martinez actually cut the 13 ball in hitting the 13 ball first with a high ball and went forward with the cue ball and scratched one rail in the side.

Put up carom shots like this one and experiment with them by hitting each ball first, to determine what the possibilities are with the cue ball.

Billy I.
 
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lll

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i only recently had watched some of rafaels matches
ie the sylver ochoa match with in the last year or 2 i think where that first game was a classic with rafael trying a 5 rail bank to win the game
(but he lost)(lenny has it for sale)
this match showed his offensive tendencies at an earlier age
the 5 ball bank to open up the balls was an aggressive and imaginative shot from that position
his bank on the 3 was impressive

in retrospect
maybe rafael should have moved the 6 earlier in the match when he had a chance
or taken the one rail kick to make the 11 like billy sugested(i really liked that shot)

but if you have the firepower and the nerves
GO FOR IT:)
at least its entertaining for the sweaters:D:lol
 
tylerdurden

tylerdurden

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Even though i know i'm not "right," I have to say I did not agree at all with rafael running into those balls with the 5 ball bank. Forgive me, im moving backwards a couple shots from the current one.

I like doing all you can to get that 5 ball close to your hole (not make it), even if that means coming out from behind the 2. And make sure steve was blocked from hitting the 6 in front of his hole. In that situation steve would have had to defend against the 5 ball AND the 6 ball bank in front of his hole. And there also would have been that 2 ball bank possibility, and who knows even a billiard on that 11 after banking the 2. I just strongly disagree with running into those balls :frus
 
tylerdurden

tylerdurden

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On this last rafael shot i just like pocketing that 11 (finally) and focus on freezing him to the end rail there if possible. I dont understand what is wrong with that.
 
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petie

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What I really liked/like about this thread

What I really liked/like about this thread

Is that it pretty much stuck with the subject and a lot of people participated and a lot of knowledge and wisdom was shared and nobody tried to hijack it.
 
Last edited:
tonygreen

tonygreen

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petie said:
Is that it pretty much stuck with the subject and a lot of people participated and a lot of knowledge and wisdom was shared and nobody tried to hijack it.
Click to expand...

Isn't that a novel idea (not one hijack) and no digs from anybody aimed at anyone. Wow, there is decency still found here.

I love this place!
 
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bstroud

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Do I get another cookie?

Sorry I couldn't join the discussion but I was playing at the Jamaica Joe's tourney in OKC.

My first real tournament and the first time I have played on a bar table in 30 years.

Didn't miss many balls. Never a 9 ball.

Came in third but had a good chance to win. Shane and Chip just broke the balls better that I did.

Calcuta was great. Chip and Shane went for 1500 each. I bought myself for 40.

Great event.

Bill Stroud
 
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lll

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bstroud said:
Do I get another cookie?

Sorry I couldn't join the discussion but I was playing at the Jamaica Joe's tourney in OKC.

My first real tournament and the first time I have played on a bar table in 30 years.

Didn't miss many balls. Never a 9 ball.

Came in third but had a good chance to win. Shane and Chip just broke the balls better that I did.

Calcuta was great. Chip and Shane went for 1500 each. I bought myself for 40.

Bill Stroud
Click to expand...

how many cookies do you want???
they are all on me
you deserve it
:)
(i might catch flack on that from some of the members but :sorry
 
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