Tell me 1 good reason why kickbanks aren't legal in banks?

NH Steve · Dec 18, 2015

There is a "draft" of complete Bank Rules here on OnePocket.org.

http://www.onepocket.org/BankPoolRules.htm

The one thing that we have to change is to make it clear that Bank Pool is a call shot game. Therefore you have to call your shot before you shoot for every shot. If you don't, your opponent kind of might not consider what you shot as obvious

Per bank champion and Banks HOF player and onepocket.org member John Brumback, and I am not going to argue with John

John Brumback · Dec 18, 2015

NH Steve said:
There is a "draft" of complete Bank Rules here on OnePocket.org.

http://www.onepocket.org/BankPoolRules.htm

The one thing that we have to change is to make it clear that Bank Pool is a call shot game. Therefore you have to call your shot before you shoot for every shot. If you don't, your opponent kind of might not consider what you shot as obvious

Per bank champion and Banks HOF player and onepocket.org member John Brumback, and I am not going to argue with John

Yes,even the electric chair shots:frus Thanks for all you do Steve,for one pocket and bank pool!!!

John B.

PS: if anyone wants or needs to know any rules about bank pool,I'll try to help them with it

gulfportdoc · Dec 19, 2015

FWIW, here are the DCC 9-Ball Banks rules:

9-Ball Bank Rules

Format: Race to 3; single elimination; one buy-back option.

Lag for First Break: Winner of the lag decides who breaks first.

Breaking subsequent games: Winner of previous game decides who breaks the next game.

Legal Break: A legal break requires you to strike the head ball first and drive at least one object ball past the side pockets. If your break is illegal, the opponent may either accept the table in position or require you to break again.

Calling a Bank: You must call the intended pocket and exact number of cushions before shooting.

Illegally Pocketed Balls: A ball is illegally pocketed if it: goes into other than the called pocket; contacts other than the exact number of cushions called; caroms off any other object ball before being pocketed; is pocketed by a combination; contacts the cue ball more than once on the same shot. All illegally pocketed balls are spotted.

Kick Shots: Kick shots are not allowed.

Scratch or Foul: Any scratch or foul results in loss of a ball. If you have no balls to spot, you “owe” a ball. You must spot what you owe at the end of your inning in which you have balls available to spot.

The incoming player has cue ball in hand behind the head string after a scratch or cue ball jumped off the table.

All Balls are Behind the Head String with Cue Ball in Hand: Should this occur, the ball closest to the head string is spotted. If 2 or more balls are the same distance from the head string, the shooter will designate which ball to spot.

Winning the Game: The first player who legally pockets five (5) balls wins the game.

John Brumback · Dec 19, 2015

One of my fav rules in full rack banks is......

You must bank a ball before you can shoot again. ( that means you must break safe) I use the straight pool break as any top bank pool player would.

I learned this rule from playin with Mr. Buggs and few other top bankers from that area.

This is the one rule,imo that keeps bank pool ahead of the pack when it comes to just pure pool.

That same point gets rid of all the rackin (BS!). You can just throw them up there in a pile and it would not matter one bit. I love that part of bank pool!!!

Signed,John Brumback

boingo · Dec 19, 2015

The rules are clear. The question I have is why, what is the goal of these rules?

I speculate that the intention of prohibiting kicks and combinations is too force the players to discover all the possible 'pure' banks. For instance if a one rail bank is blocked instead of allowing a kick + one rail bank the player is forced to look for a 2 or 3 rail bank instead.

I love to bank but I've had trouble with the 'call all the details' approach because I felt that it discouraged risks based on skill and experience. There are cases when a second object ball is blocking a one rail to pocket but I am confident that I can catch a second rail and kiss off that ball to make my shot.
Maybe I've been looking at it the wrong way, maybe I'm supposed to stretch and learn to find and make 2,3, and 4 rail banks?

I suppose that having some of the pockets blocked requires a more strategic thought process in the players, being forced to play with a subset of the six pockets changes defensive and offensive position play immensely.

I'm curious what the experienced bank players think about 'big picture' things like this?

gulfportdoc · Dec 19, 2015

John Brumback said:
...
You must bank a ball before you can shoot again. ( that means you must break safe) I use the straight pool break as any top bank pool player would.

...

John, what do you think of the break shot favored by The Beard, where from about a diamond out from the side rail the shooter aims at the 4th ball in the rack (1 before the corner) with high inside english? It's hit very firm, with the intention of bringing the CB up to the head rail.

If hit well, it opens up the rack, but leaves nothing for the opponent.

~Doc

Jeff sparks · Dec 19, 2015

Why doesn't the rail going into a pocket count as a rail? Sometimes the OB brushes a rail just in front of a pocket and drops into that pocket. However it's called a one rail bank, when in fact it touches two rails before falling into the pocket that's been called.

My guess is that it's not called a rail because it would be a bone of contention more times than not. Arguments aplenty.

Suppose you shoot the OB into a side pocket point and call it a one rail in the corner off the opposite long rail, it's entirely possible to make it, but I'm guessing it's not a legal shot even though you hit the OB first and called it. Probably something to do with pocket facings prevents it being legal.

Actually a facing shot that I believe is accepted in bank pool is the one across to the opposite corner pocket off the outside facing of the other corner pocket. This shot is performed in one pocket all the time when the OB is very close to the foot rail. I think it's accepted as legal in bank pool because it's very possible to turn that ball with English and or ball friction depending on table and weather conditions.

John Brumback · Dec 19, 2015

gulfportdoc said:
John, what do you think of the break shot favored by The Beard, where from about a diamond out from the side rail the shooter aims at the 4th ball in the rack (1 before the corner) with high inside english? It's hit very firm, with the intention of bringing the CB up to the head rail.

If hit well, it opens up the rack, but leaves nothing for the opponent.

~Doc

Not much

:lol John B.

Island Drive · Dec 20, 2015

Growing up in the burbs of Chicago in the sixties, the way I learned bank pool was full rack, safe break. Looking back, it's the perfect game of one and stop especially in the beginning of play. Teaches cue ball control...it improved ones play during the roll out years of nine ball. You learn to take the free shot. I won a match quite a few years back playing the ''tit and a rail'' two railer bank shot, in a game of rotation. Comes up less often than a blue moon for the win.

Jeff sparks · Dec 20, 2015

Jeff sparks said:
Why doesn't the rail going into a pocket count as a rail? Sometimes the OB brushes a rail just in front of a pocket and drops into that pocket. However it's called a one rail bank, when in fact it touches two rails before falling into the pocket that's been called.

My guess is that it's not called a rail because it would be a bone of contention more times than not. Arguments aplenty.

Suppose you shoot the OB into a side pocket point and call it a one rail in the corner off the opposite long rail, it's entirely possible to make it, but I'm guessing it's not a legal shot even though you hit the OB first and called it. Probably something to do with pocket facings prevents it being legal.

Actually a facing shot that I believe is accepted in bank pool is the one across to the opposite corner pocket off the outside facing of the other corner pocket. This shot is performed in one pocket all the time when the OB is very close to the foot rail. I think it's accepted as legal in bank pool because it's very possible to turn that ball with English and or ball friction depending on table and weather conditions.

No response? Ok, that's cool, just thought I would ask, but if no one knows....

straightback · Dec 20, 2015

Jeff sparks said:
No response? Ok, that's cool, just thought I would ask, but if no one knows....

My understanding is that you can shoot facings so long as they are declared as a rail beforehand. Might wanna check the Derby rules as far as what goes there. There is one shot (perhaps the one you are describing) where the OB is close to a corner pocket and a 3-railer is shot off three tits, then going into the adjacent corner pocket.

As for why it counts when you are banking parallel to a rail, who knows, but your guess about arguments over when the ball goes clean or not doubtless has something to do with it.

The real whacky ass one is where you are banking a long rail straight back bank and it catches the far side point and spins down into the called pocket. Believe it or not, this is scored for the shooter that called it one rail. Very odd but in the course of a DCC tourney it invariably comes up as two contestants differ.

Final oddity: you know the trick bank in one pocket where you shoot off your opponent's side point back at your pocket? My understanding is that if called in bank pool, it counts.

Maybe John can give his understanding of the gambling rules.

gulfportdoc · Dec 20, 2015

Jeff sparks said:
Why doesn't the rail going into a pocket count as a rail? Sometimes the OB brushes a rail just in front of a pocket and drops into that pocket. ...

I suppose it's because the rail going into the pocket is considered part of the pocket.

~Doc

unoperro · Dec 20, 2015

Jeff sparks said:
Why doesn't the rail going into a pocket count as a rail? Sometimes the OB brushes a rail just in front of a pocket and drops into that pocket. However it's called a one rail bank, when in fact it touches two rails before falling into the pocket that's been called.

I believe it is like that for the same reason KickBanks dont count:2 billybobs made up the rules and that aint the way they play.

John Brumback · Dec 21, 2015

straightback said:
My understanding is that you can shoot facings so long as they are declared as a rail beforehand. Might wanna check the Derby rules as far as what goes there. There is one shot (perhaps the one you are describing) where the OB is close to a corner pocket and a 3-railer is shot off three tits, then going into the adjacent corner pocket.

As for why it counts when you are banking parallel to a rail, who knows, but your guess about arguments over when the ball goes clean or not doubtless has something to do with it.

The real whacky ass one is where you are banking a long rail straight back bank and it catches the far side point and spins down into the called pocket. Believe it or not, this is scored for the shooter that called it one rail. Very odd but in the course of a DCC tourney it invariably comes up as two contestants differ.

Final oddity: you know the trick bank in one pocket where you shoot off your opponent's side point back at your pocket? My understanding is that if called in bank pool, it counts.

Maybe John can give his understanding of the gambling rules.

Nailed it!!! I have nothing to add

:lol John B.

Billy Jackets · Dec 22, 2015

unoperro said:
Jeff sparks said:

Why doesn't the rail going into a pocket count as a rail? Sometimes the OB brushes a rail just in front of a pocket and drops into that pocket. However it's called a one rail bank, when in fact it touches two rails before falling into the pocket that's been called.

I believe it is like that for the same reason KickBanks dont count:2 billybobs made up the rules and that aint the way they play.

Click to expand...

Smile when you say 2 Billybobs, stranger.:heh:frus:lol:sorry:help

unoperro · Dec 23, 2015

Billy Jackets said:
unoperro said:

Smile when you say 2 Billybobs, stranger.:heh:frus:lol:sorry:help

Click to expand...

While in the south I heard"you aint from around here,are you?".

1pwannabe · Dec 31, 2015

Is somebody preventing you from changing the rules when you play?

Around here they allow kick banks if it's 2 or more rails, and not once have I seen the cops come in and arrest anyone.

straightback · Dec 31, 2015

1pwannabe said:
Is somebody preventing you from changing the rules when you play?

Around here they allow kick banks if it's 2 or more rails, and not once have I seen the cops come in and arrest anyone.

Do you mean that you are allowed to kick a (usually hanging) ball in 2 or more rails or that you can kick a ball, which must then go two rails to score?

1pwannabe · Dec 31, 2015

straightback said:
Do you mean that you are allowed to kick a (usually hanging) ball in 2 or more rails or that you can kick a ball, which must then go two rails to score?

You can kick a ball into a pocket, as long as the cue ball goes 2 or more rails first. From what I can tell, it's pretty common when playing banks for $ as long as it's declared up front.

straightback · Dec 31, 2015

1pwannabe said:
You can kick a ball into a pocket, as long as the cue ball goes 2 or more rails first. From what I can tell, it's pretty common when playing banks for $ as long as it's declared up front.

Around here (and at DCC ring games), the shot is usually scored as a point but it must go three rails first, not just two.

At any rate, I asked for clarification because I think the OP was asking about kicking a ball and making it bank off a cushion before going in a pocket, whereas we are now talking about just a multi-rail kick shot.

Tell me 1 good reason why kickbanks aren't legal in banks?

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