benefit to the designer

wincardona · May 25, 2009

#54 Today, 12:39 PM
wincardona
Verified Member Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dallas Tx.
Posts: 181

it's the concept

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Quote:
Originally Posted by androd
I like this type of shot,and often shoot it when it lays right. the reason I didn't put it with my earlier choices is, on this WEI I put some ghost balls between the 14 & 15 and it just didn't look right to me. but in theory I like the idea of it.
Rod. <---- learned how to look at caroms from Jersey Red.

Rodney, When shots are set up for debate on the WEI table, they are supposed to be viewed as if the position of the balls are as the producer of the shot sees them. Too often people become too critical about how certain shots lay, in spite of how they were meant to be interpreted. This shot is a perfect example of what I am talking about. This is one of my options, and surely it wouldn't be an option if it wasn't laying right, right? I have a very good understanding of shots, and you would think that other people would recognize that before splitting hairs about certain angles, which I think is counter productive. This particular shot is a VERY strong shot and should be incorporated into everyones arsenal, and if for some reason someone believes that this is a low % shot, or a wild west type of a shot, then their going to learn this shot the hard way. I really don't know you that well personally, but from your responses and input on issues I believe you have a much better understanding, and saviness about yourself than most. I'm not trying to degrade anyone, we are here to debate, and learn.

This thread is mainly directed to the people that are trying to be overly critical about certain shots to feed their ego's, instead of them to view shots the way the producer of the shot designed it to be interpreted. Especially if the producer of a shot has the credentials and hardware to back it up. Maybe we should look at the glass being half full, opposed to being half empty.

By the way, Rodney has the right perspective about learning and going on.

One Pocket Ghost · May 25, 2009

wincardona said:
it's the concept

When shots are set up for debate on the WEI table, they are supposed to be viewed as if the position of the balls are as the producer of the shot sees them. Too often people become too critical about how certain shots lay, in spite of how they were meant to be interpreted.

you would think that other people would recognize that before splitting hairs about certain angles, which I think is counter productive.

This thread is mainly directed to the people that are trying to be overly critical about certain shots to feed their ego's, instead of them to view shots the way the producer of the shot designed it to be interpreted.

Thank You............This is exactly what myself and Steve Booth said (twice each) for 2 days, re. my, "My Shot Revised" thread....

In a couple of cases, to no avail.....

- Ghost

Skin · May 25, 2009

I think both of you guys are quite right. The WEI is only useful for illustrating a general idea. I usually try to set the diagrams up on my table using careful measurements just so I can putz around in real life with what is being said.

I have been told many times that the balls are not intended to lay in the diagrams as they translate out on the table, and so many of my shot choices explode.

You just accept it and move on for the sake of discussion.

btw: the same goes for drawing the shot lines, which are very, very hard to get exact.

Skin <-- still at an o-fer WEI success ratio...and started to get damn proud of it

lll · May 25, 2009

now that we are one happy disfunctional family hopefully the concept and point of the shot will be more appreciated and not looked to be torn down. the strength of the carum bank and a way to get the q on the foot rail and the other balls up table so you leave distance first are two great concept shots to look for wherever on the table they may lie.

lfigueroa · May 25, 2009

wincardona said:
#54 Today, 12:39 PM
wincardona
Verified Member Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dallas Tx.
Posts: 181

it's the concept

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by androd
I like this type of shot,and often shoot it when it lays right. the reason I didn't put it with my earlier choices is, on this WEI I put some ghost balls between the 14 & 15 and it just didn't look right to me. but in theory I like the idea of it.
Rod. <---- learned how to look at caroms from Jersey Red.

Rodney, When shots are set up for debate on the WEI table, they are supposed to be viewed as if the position of the balls are as the producer of the shot sees them. Too often people become too critical about how certain shots lay, in spite of how they were meant to be interpreted. This shot is a perfect example of what I am talking about. This is one of my options, and surely it wouldn't be an option if it wasn't laying right, right? I have a very good understanding of shots, and you would think that other people would recognize that before splitting hairs about certain angles, which I think is counter productive. This particular shot is a VERY strong shot and should be incorporated into everyones arsenal, and if for some reason someone believes that this is a low % shot, or a wild west type of a shot, then their going to learn this shot the hard way. I really don't know you that well personally, but from your responses and input on issues I believe you have a much better understanding, and saviness about yourself than most. I'm not trying to degrade anyone, we are here to debate, and learn.

This thread is mainly directed to the people that are trying to be overly critical about certain shots to feed their ego's, instead of them to view shots the way the producer of the shot designed it to be interpreted. Especially if the producer of a shot has the credentials and hardware to back it up. Maybe we should look at the glass being half full, opposed to being half empty.

By the way, Rodney has the right perspective about learning and going on.

Well, yes and no.

When Ghost set up the two rail up and down safety, I think that was clearly a case of trying to illustrate a particular kind of safety, that is often overlooked. I think that was pretty easy to see.

But when someone presents a table layout, replete with score, and obstructing balls, and is trying to opine as to what the bestest shot is, then that's different. The balls are where they are, not much differently than on a real pool table, where they occupy precise, specific places in time and space.

If a "designer" is going to try and argue that a particular shot (or particular set of shot choices), is the correct stategy, given a particular score, then I say you are entitled to have that opinion scrutinized and critiqued, just as guys on the rail would be doing in a real life match.

Lou Figueroa

wincardona · May 25, 2009

lfigueroa said:
Well, yes and no.

When Ghost set up the two rail up and down safety, I think that was clearly a case of trying to illustrate a particular kind of safety, that is often overlooked. I think that was pretty easy to see.

But when someone presents a table layout, replete with score, and obstructing balls, and is trying to opine as to what the bestest shot is, then that's different. The balls are where they are, not much differently than on a real pool table, where they occupy precise, specific places in time and space.

If a "designer" is going to try and argue that a particular shot (or particular set of shot choices), is the correct stategy, given a particular score, then I say you are entitled to have that opinion scrutinized and critiqued, just as guys on the rail would be doing in a real life match.

Lou Figueroa

Lou, that wasn't what I was referring to. What I was referring to was one of the options that I set up was disputed as a viable option because it wasn't lying correctly.If I set up a shot as an option, you have to give me the benefit that it was set up correctly.What we see on the WEI table sometimes isn't what it appears to be.So considering that if a knowledgeable player sets up a shot, you must give him the benefit of the doubt that it is set up correctly. I don't have a problem with anyone choosing one shot over another, but I do have a problem with people saying my option is not a viable one because it's not set up correctly.

lfigueroa · May 26, 2009

wincardona said:
Lou, that wasn't what I was referring to. What I was referring to was one of the options that I set up was disputed as a viable option because it wasn't lying correctly.If I set up a shot as an option, you have to give me the benefit that it was set up correctly.What we see on the WEI table sometimes isn't what it appears to be.So considering that if a knowledgeable player sets up a shot, you must give him the benefit of the doubt that it is set up correctly. I don't have a problem with anyone choosing one shot over another, but I do have a problem with people saying my option is not a viable one because it's not set up correctly.

Oh, so sorry, Billy. Thought you were arguing something else.

Personally, I have Wei Table dyslexia, so I do get what you're saying

Lou Figueroa

mr3cushion · May 26, 2009

Might help place the balls with more accuracy!

Might help place the balls with more accuracy!

Guy's; Using the Wei table for 3 cushion shots, I always us the GRID option so I can place the balls in the exact positions, in billiards if a shot is off by a 1/2 inch it makes a huge difference. Mabe when you set the shots up,use the GRID , and Post you're diagram using it.
Mr3cushion.

Artie Bodendorfer · May 26, 2009

lfigueroa said:
Oh, so sorry, Billy. Thought you were arguing something else.

Personally, I have Wei Table dyslexia, so I do get what you're saying

Lou Figueroa

Billy Billy Pittsburg Billy. I AM ALWAYS WRIGHT. AND YOU ARE NEVER WRONG. Take it to the limit one more tim. You can put this qoite in the hall of fame.

Artie Bodendorfer · May 27, 2009

mr3cushion said:
Guy's; Using the Wei table for 3 cushion shots, I always us the GRID option so I can place the balls in the exact positions, in billiards if a shot is off by a 1/2 inch it makes a huge difference. Mabe when you set the shots up,use the GRID , and Post you're diagram using it.
Mr3cushion.

You give a lot of great advice. Listen To MR three cushion and you cant go wrong.

vapros · May 27, 2009

Billy, I don't think I'm being paranoid - your message here is for me, as I am the guy who found fault with the projected path of the 14 in the carom shot. Looking back at my post, it isn't hard to see that it could be offensive. I get carried away sometimes and I should not have used such a far-fetched analogy. I wish I had not done that, and I'm sorry.

Two things I want to say right now. One, I have been a fan of yours for a long time, and still am. I think your "Common Sense One Pocket' tape is one of the very best around. Two, when it comes to one pocket, I don't have much of an ego at all, and it certainly did not drive my post.

All this being said, I think it is less than reasonable for you to expect us to look at a wei layout you have prepared and recognize that it might not appear as you intended. If we are to discuss it or debate it, we have to proceed by what we see. Your qualifications are not questioned, but the pattern on the wei table is what it is. So, I believe my criticism was well-founded, even if I prepared it badly. I sincerely hope there will be no hard feelings remaining on this subject.