RULE QUESTION for REFEREES & tOURNAMENT DIRECTORS

JoeyA

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Metairie, LA
I've read the rules of one pocket as outlined here on onepocket.org but I have a question for you one pocket players.

If while using a bridge, you move one ball (other than the cue ball) by accident is it a foul?

If while using a bridge, you move two balls or more (other than the cue ball) by accident, is it a foul?

If while using a bridge, you move SEVERAL Balls and scatter them widely on the table (other than the cue ball, which never moves), is it a foul?

The rules state that in one pocket, it is cue ball fouls only and any ball (notice:singular) is moved, the disturbed Ball (singular) must be restored to it's original position.

What prevents a player who has a terrible table layout from "accidentally" dropping the bridge onto the rack of balls to change the table layout forever?

When cue ball fouls only rule is in effect, does it become a foul when more than one ball is moved, even if by accident?

Thanks,
JoeyA
 

SJDinPHX

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JoeyA said:
I've read the rules of one pocket as outlined here on onepocket.org but I have a question for you one pocket players.

If while using a bridge, you move one ball (other than the cue ball) by accident is it a foul?

If while using a bridge, you move two balls or more (other than the cue ball) by accident, is it a foul?

If while using a bridge, you move SEVERAL Balls and scatter them widely on the table (other than the cue ball, which never moves), is it a foul?

The rules state that in one pocket, it is cue ball fouls only and any ball (notice:singular) is moved, the disturbed Ball (singular) must be restored to it's original position.

What prevents a player who has a terrible table layout from "accidentally" dropping the bridge onto the rack of balls to change the table layout forever?

When cue ball fouls only rule is in effect, does it become a foul when more than one ball is moved, even if by accident?

Thanks,
JoeyA

Joey,

I think its pretty well accepted that moving more than one ball, constitutes a foul in most instances.

The only thing about one pocket is, If you have a guy in so much trouble, he can't get to the cue ball, You may prefer him to shoot the shot and hope for a good result...for you.

Many times, (as in the stack, over a ball) I would prefer my opponent to shoot, and hope for an even better outcome than just him losing a ball, and possibly NOT leaving me a shot with the CB where its at.

Hope I'm making sense, but I think your question is covered in Steve's 1P rules, isn't it ?

Dick
 
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gulfportdoc

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Gulfport, Mississippi
JoeyA said:
When cue ball fouls only rule is in effect, does it become a foul when more than one ball is moved, even if by accident?
Joey, I don't believe so. The non-shooting player has the option of restoring the ball(s) to the original position. Or he can decide to leave the balls where they are, and have the player continue to shoot.

Now in the case of disturbing object balls DURING a guy's shot, it's a foul if the moved balls affect the outcome of the shot, e.g. if an object ball were knocked out of the path of a bank shot.

If the player were to intentionally scatter or rake the balls, then I think that would be loss of game.

Any circumstance not explicitly covered in the onepocket.org rules would defer to the WPA standardized rules.

Doc
 

jay helfert

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I like the way they played the Ten Ball tourney in Vegas last week. ALL BALL FOULS! Like the old days in Straight Pool. That way there is no question about what is or isn't a foul. You move a ball, you fouled! That's about as easy as it gets.

The Europeans think we're soft playing cue ball fouls only. They say we play a "sloppy" and "careless" game. They may be right.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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jay helfert said:
I like the way they played the Ten Ball tourney in Vegas last week. ALL BALL FOULS! Like the old days in Straight Pool. That way there is no question about what is or isn't a foul. You move a ball, you fouled! That's about as easy as it gets.

The Europeans think we're soft playing cue ball fouls only. They say we play a "sloppy" and "careless" game. They may be right.
Its Not Us Its THe People Who Make The Rules. The Are REsponsable.
 

gulfportdoc

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jay helfert said:
The Europeans think we're soft playing cue ball fouls only. They say we play a "sloppy" and "careless" game. They may be right.
Well of course the Americans are sloppy! We invented Texas Express rules.:D

Doc
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
Its Not Us Its THe People Who Make The Rules. The Are REsponsable.
Your Correct THe Played all fouls in all games even if your shirt touched a ball. But all the week and shakey people who shot over a ball cant take the preasure all the do is make the games simpler. and take all the deffense out of the game. All the want the games to be is offense no deffense. And the made the games shoot tell you miss. Theb took all the thinking andout mavovering your opponent out of the game. Witch helped the weeker shooter to win the game. Just Like in nine ball playing shoot out . Well A lot of players would role out to play safe. And If the were playing a player who wasant to smart he would shoot at the shot anyway. Were the person that roled out would play safe instead of shootingb a give up.And You people are responsable for letting people change the rules. And THe players could have stoped it. All the had to do is get together and say we are not playing by these rules. And its about the players because without the players thier would be no game. And the would have went along with the players. And you could have played by your rules. Instead of these micky mouse rules. And the players need to have the power just like the people. But the players and the people give thier power away. And Thats Why thier are so many wars. And rule changes. Just Like The Goverment made a new law just to put me out of buisness. And it should never have been made a law. And the even changed one of thier ignorent rules and law thw made in the Casinos for cellular phones . And The inforced it with thier cicurity and help like you killied somebody. And I use to give all the supervisors heat about the rule. A lot worse then I ever did on this site. And the were going to barr me out of the casinos and the woul;d call the gaming commision and I would tell the gaming commision the same thing . How dumb and stupied the rule was. And the had signs up in all the casinos sports books. Guess what the finaly realized how dumb and stupied the rule was. And A friened off mien called me and said you must have gotten to them. Because the finaly changed the rule in all the casinos. And I told him that the law the goverment made about messanger betting that the goverment took my money will change to. Because to start with its against the constitution. And should never have been made. And thier is no crime in having messanger bettors. THats why the gaming commision never did anything about it when it was a law. Its a hunderd % wrong. And the will change that law to as soon as the see who stupied and wrong the were when the made the law. But to fight it in the suprem court will take a life time and millions of dollare to change the law. And the suprim court might never even look at it and just put it on the side. But we need to have people make laws and rules that know what they are doing. Not just because the have that job or position to do it. And the people need to have a say in passing and making knew rules and laws. And thats why the laws and rules are what the are today. Because they can make whatever law the want. The people should be alowed to vote on what should be passed as a law. Because the laws are made to use against you. Not to help you but help them and the lobiest and all the people getting payed off and have favors done to get the laws passed.Have the people ever realy made a law/ But just like the rules in pool the need to make rules that make sense. Not changing the old rules to some micky mouse rules. And what is correct should be done. Not what some fool has the power to make.
 

SactownTom

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Sacramento CA
JoeyA said:
I've read the rules of one pocket as outlined here on onepocket.org but I have a question for you one pocket players.

If while using a bridge, you move one ball (other than the cue ball) by accident is it a foul? NO FOUL

If while using a bridge, you move two balls or more (other than the cue ball) by accident, is it a foul? NO.

If while using a bridge, you move SEVERAL Balls and scatter them widely on the table (other than the cue ball, which never moves), is it a foul? RAKING the BALLS is an act of Concession... LOSS OF GAME

The rules state that in one pocket, it is cue ball fouls only and any ball (notice:singular) is moved, the disturbed Ball (singular) must be restored to it's original position. By the NON-Shooting player or shooter if given permission by the non-shooting player NO FOUL

What prevents a player who has a terrible table layout from "accidentally" dropping the bridge onto the rack of balls to change the table layout forever?
FOUL warning for unsportsmanlike conduct next occurrence is loss of game, after that is loss of match or DQ

When cue ball fouls only rule is in effect, does it become a foul when more than one ball is moved, even if by accident? If one of them is the cue ball, or if a ball moved comes into play of the cue ball or object ball.

Thanks,
JoeyA

Why do you ask?
 

JoeyA

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Metairie, LA
SactownTom said:
Why do you ask?

Because it happened at one of our local pool halls and there was a lot of arguing about it.

Tom, I know you would make a ruling if arguing started at a Hard Times tournament. What would your ruling be?
Thanks,
JoeyA
 

JoeyA

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From
Metairie, LA
gulfportdoc said:
Joey, I don't believe so. The non-shooting player has the option of restoring the ball(s) to the original position. Or he can decide to leave the balls where they are, and have the player continue to shoot.

Now in the case of disturbing object balls DURING a guy's shot, it's a foul if the moved balls affect the outcome of the shot, e.g. if an object ball were knocked out of the path of a bank shot.

If the player were to intentionally scatter or rake the balls, then I think that would be loss of game.

Any circumstance not explicitly covered in the onepocket.org rules would defer to the WPA standardized rules.

Doc

Yeah, I read the rules but it just doesn't make sense imo. How do you determine an accident from something intentional?

I was thinking that if we think one pocket is such a great game (and I do and so do all of you on this forum) then why do we have a rule that says if we move one ball it is OK to set it back up. If it is 2 balls, we can set it back up. In fact there isn't any limit to the number of balls that can be disturbed (providing the cue isn't one of them) without penalty according to the rules.

Like the Gingerbread Man said, a good rule would be "any ball moved is a foul". That would be a great rule and it would just make us better disciplined players instead of con men looking for a way to cheat the other player by following the rules to extremes and arguing about things that shouldn't be argued about.

JoeyA
 

SactownTom

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If both players are arguing loud enough to disturb matches;

I would put both players on unsportsmanlike WARNINGS. Disturbing playing conditions. And explain that the next offense is Loss of game.

If, when I am assessing the situation either player starts "going off" again, he automatically loses the game. Hence the reasoning for the WARNING.

If it was a mass movement of balls that neither player could replace, the game would be played over with the original breaker breaking.

I don't like playing the game over, it isn't fair to the tournament players not involved. Everyone suffers.

I would probably end up being the bad guy and both players would agree that I was unfair. But, that is part of my job and the players can now get back to business.



JoeyA said:
Because it happened at one of our local pool halls and there was a lot of arguing about it.

Tom, I know you would make a ruling if arguing started at a Hard Times tournament. What would your ruling be?
Thanks,
JoeyA
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Detroit,Michigan
JoeyA said:
Like the Gingerbread Man said, a good rule would be "any ball moved is a foul". That would be a great rule and it would just make us better disciplined players instead of con men looking for a way to cheat the other player by following the rules to extremes and arguing about things that shouldn't be argued about.

JoeyA


I do not know who the Gingerbread Man is but I would love to play any and all games 'any ball touched is a foul'. I strive to be very careful when jacked up around balls and at other times. The 14.1 rules used to call for object ball fouls also. I do not know what they are today.

This rule would eliminate any arguments and make everybody better and more careful players. This rule makes it simple.
 

CaliRed

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Heart of the Midwest
JoeyA said:
Like the Gingerbread Man said, a good rule would be "any ball moved is a foul". That would be a great rule and it would just make us better disciplined players instead of con men looking for a way to cheat the other player by following the rules to extremes and arguing about things that shouldn't be argued about.

JoeyA

But that wouldn't solve the problem if someone "unintentionally" rakes the balls, and let's just say he happens to rake them in the direction of his pocket,... would a foul really be much of a penalty? I would think the guy not doing the raking would be getting the short end of the stick, unless he raked them to a much better spot for him.... If he has the option to try and move them all back or not.... problem is, if many balls are moved, there is going to be a lot of arguing on where to move them back, even if it's only one person that's supposed to be doing the moving back.

Maybe one foul for every ball he moved? :D as soon as you don't pocket a ball, you shoot again, until you've used them all up.
 
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SJDinPHX

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Cowboy Dennis said:
I do not know who the Gingerbread Man is but I would love to play any and all games 'any ball touched is a foul'. I strive to be very careful when jacked up around balls and at other times. The 14.1 rules used to call for object ball fouls also. I do not know what they are today.

This rule would eliminate any arguments and make everybody better and more careful players. This rule makes it simple.

Dennis,

Gingerbread Man....AKA Jay Helfert
 
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