Strengths

Jeff sparks

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Well, I've had a good dose of Scott & Alex over the last 4 nights, I've watched the match intently and come to these conclusions regarding their strengths.

Alex has the better CB control.
He pockets balls better, cleaner.
He plays better position
He runs balls better, moves from ball to ball beautifully,
& he's more patient and less of a risk taker.

Scott knows the game better
He moves multiple balls better
He has a better imagination
& his end game is better.

I would give Alex a slight nod on being the better player, today. In a year, nobody's gonna beat him!
JMO
 

LSJohn

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Scott knows the game better, but Alex's skills are superior, which is why "In a year, nobody's gonna beat him!" IOW, I agree with everything you said.

I wonder whether Scott may come to regret making those DVDs. :eek:
 

lll

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jeff
great analysis from the eye of an elite player
thanks
john
i dont think scott will ever regret his dvd's
i think the problem is he often thinks he has to ALWAYS play power one pocket
if you listened to his interview last night he mentioned his strategy was to play the score more and be ALITTLE more defensive
 

LSJohn

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jeff
great analysis from the eye of an elite player
thanks
john
i dont think scott will ever regret his dvd's
i think the problem is he often thinks he has to ALWAYS play power one pocket
if you listened to his interview last night he mentioned his strategy was to play the score more and be ALITTLE more defensive

I meant Scott may regret giving Alex -- and maybe some others -- those learning aids.
 

petie

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Last night I noticed that Alex played a few power shots himself. He is still testing them out and they don't all work to his favor but he did shoot some. I also noticed that at one point Scott went off the rail and snuggled up to the lineup of spotted balls thus taking an intentional and spotting another ball in the path of the cue ball. This is straight from his videos and is a very effective arrow to have in your quiver. It makes me quiver just to think about it.
 

gulfportdoc

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In my view, Pagulayan is at the limit of his one-pocket play already, and he'll likely stay on top for another 6-8 years. He'll be 39 in a few days, and will turn 40 next year. As y'all know, by the late 40's a guy's play starts to wane. Guys like Irving Crane and Reyes --who played top level as they aged-- are rare exceptions.

Pagulayan has been a feared pro since at least the mid 1990's. I'll never forget watching him break and run six racks of 10-ball in a 6-man ring game over in Reno. It was circa 1997, and he broke the game.

He plays all games well-- banks perhaps being his weakest. He's a good snooker player.

Frost is a one-pocket specialist. He loves the game, and believes that he understands it completely. His other games are not quite at the same level as is his one-pocket prowess. He's been arguably the best 1P player in the world since the time of his victories over Efren in Arizona, at the least up until the last year or so with the emergence of Pagulayan.

I don't know his age. He's probably younger than Alex. Scott is the one who may actually have a chance at getting even better than he is, IF he's able to back off the pyrotechnics a little. But he has to really believe and understand the value of that. A loss to Alex might be just the key to this self realization. On the other hand, he might not be capable of playing any differently than he already does. I know that a few heavy hitter, experienced players have given Scott that advice. It's just a question of whether or not he's able to utilize it.

~Doc
 

Jeff sparks

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In my view, Pagulayan is at the limit of his one-pocket play already, and he'll likely stay on top for another 6-8 years. He'll be 39 in a few days, and will turn 40 next year. As y'all know, by the late 40's a guy's play starts to wane. Guys like Irving Crane and Reyes --who played top level as they aged-- are rare exceptions.

Pagulayan has been a feared pro since at least the mid 1990's. I'll never forget watching him break and run six racks of 10-ball in a 6-man ring game over in Reno. It was circa 1997, and he broke the game.

He plays all games well-- banks perhaps being his weakest. He's a good snooker player.

Frost is a one-pocket specialist. He loves the game, and believes that he understands it completely. His other games are not quite at the same level as is his one-pocket prowess. He's been arguably the best 1P player in the world since the time of his victories over Efren in Arizona, at the least up until the last year or so with the emergence of Pagulayan.

I don't know his age. He's probably younger than Alex. Scott is the one who may actually have a chance at getting even better than he is, IF he's able to back off the pyrotechnics a little. But he has to really believe and understand the value of that. A loss to Alex might be just the key to this self realization. On the other hand, he might not be capable of playing any differently than he already does. I know that a few heavy hitter, experienced players have given Scott that advice. It's just a question of whether or not he's able to utilize it.

~Doc

I visited with him at the tournament in Houston a while back, one thing I asked was his age, he told me he was 36, that was about 3 weeks ago. He also said he was a big fan of the game of one pocket and he planned on concentrating on learning more about the moving part of the game. He is a super nice guy, and I believe it's genuine, not in any way a front. He is intelligent, lucid, and outgoing. He's an easy fellow to be around. I liked him immediately.

I believe he recognizes his shortcomings in the game, and I believe now that most all of that stalling he does is not intended as a irritant to his opponent, I simply believe that he is unsure of himself sometimes and he doesn't want to shoot the wrong shot for fear of embarrassment, what with his high ranking and all. He still stalls, just not always for the reasons I originally thought.

Personally, I believe he has room for improvement in a couple of key areas that will make him all but unbeatable over the next few years. Imagination, moves, & end game. The more he plays the top players the faster he will learn these keys. Nothing like a nice hot furnace to make the highest quality steel! If his passion does not wane, and he stays healthy, IMHO, he's capable of being THE dominant one pocket player for the next 10 years or so.

Scott has temperament issues, he's a great mover, and knows the game as well as anyone. No doubt he's a great player and if he can somehow wrestle that demon down and learn to control his emotions he will also stay in the top 3 and compete for the # 1 title. That's a tougher fix IMO, than developing imagination, learning moves, and an end game.

Jeff
 
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1andDone

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As y'all know, by the late 40's a guy's play starts to wane. Guys like Irving Crane and Reyes --who played top level as they aged-- are rare exceptions.

~Doc

I'm 47. My game is improving tremendously. I know I will most likely never achieve "champion" level (or even shortstop for that matter), but hard work and dedication at any age pay off, I believe.

Alex's skills may or may not improve, but his understanding of the game of one pocket can grow by leaps and bounds! As his understanding grows, it will be more and more difficult for Scott to compete with him UNLESS Scott swallows a little pride, backs off of "power one pocket" a bit, and adds a tad more of traditional play into his strategy. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I think it's his ego standing in the way of allowing him to do so. Losing this match to Alex, as you said, Doc, may be exactly what he needs to realize that.
 

1andDone

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Scott has temperament issues, he's a great mover, and knows the game as well as anyone. No doubt he's a great player and if he can somehow wrestle that demon down and learn to control his emotions he will also stay in the top 3 and compete for the # 1 title. That's a tougher fix IMO, than developing imagination, learning moves, and an end game.

Jeff

You nailed there, Jeff! Scott's temperament and demeanor are the reasons I don't pull for him. Kind of like the bully who needs the whoopin'.
 

LSJohn

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Jeff

Jeff

I saw Alex at Olathe in 1995. He was practicing, playing runout full-rack rotation.

You can imagine how young he looked when he was 16. I couldn't believe my eyes.

Of course I'm just guessing, but it's my impression that his slow play is for the reasons you mentioned. He just seems to good-natured and not-a-mean-bone-in-his-body to do any serious sharking.

One of my favorite matches of his was one that he lost. He was playing Efren at DCC. He put Efren in a trap, and Efren did something amazing to turn the tables on him. He made an amazing shot and turned the tables on Efren. Rinse and repeat 3 or 4 times, and it finally looked like Efren had put him in something inescapable. Alex started laughing. It was really clear that the laughter was showing admiration.

I'd like to believe that his good nature helps him to play his best, but Earl Strickland seemed to manage pretty well. :rolleyes:
 

Jeff sparks

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I saw Alex at Olathe in 1995. He was practicing, playing runout full-rack rotation.

You can imagine how young he looked when he was 16. I couldn't believe my eyes.

Of course I'm just guessing, but it's my impression that his slow play is for the reasons you mentioned. He just seems to good-natured and not-a-mean-bone-in-his-body to do any serious sharking.

One of my favorite matches of his was one that he lost. He was playing Efren at DCC. He put Efren in a trap, and Efren did something amazing to turn the tables on him. He made an amazing shot and turned the tables on Efren. Rinse and repeat 3 or 4 times, and it finally looked like Efren had put him in something inescapable. Alex started laughing. It was really clear that the laughter was showing admiration.

I'd like to believe that his good nature helps him to play his best, but Earl Strickland seemed to manage pretty well. :rolleyes:

Exacta mondo John,

I believe in inherent qualities, Alex was blessed with a calm demeanor and an engaging personality at birth, he takes whatever happens in stride, it's in his basic DNA, he was born with it and raised up to it! I'd bet on it, go back as far as you like, I don't think you'd find any bad behavior in his history. Oh, he taps the table with the chalk or lightly slaps his cue tip on the felt occasionally when he makes a mistake, but for the most part, he's cool as the other side of the pillow. His smile is genuine and so is his heart. He's one of the guys that's easy to pull for, IMO, he's the real deal.
 

Jeff sparks

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You nailed there, Jeff! Scott's temperament and demeanor are the reasons I don't pull for him. Kind of like the bully who needs the whoopin'.

One&done,

Yep,

But it ain't all his fault, you only get to play with the mind, body, and the soul you're dealt in the beginning. We all have faults, wouldn't you agree? He could very well be a nice guy to go fishing with, or have the occasional beer with, or even sit and discuss politics or pool with for all I know, anything out of that competitive arena, he might be a really good guy.

I only get to see him in that highly competitive environment, where his senses are all on high alert and his emotions are worn on his sleeve. He's a rabid competitor, he hates to lose, and when he does, he vents it in several different forms, none of which we like to see in our heros. So we hold it against him.

He didn't get to the level he plays at without having a giant ego, he believes he's the best, but his actions in the arena just aren't as admirable as some of our other heros, therefore we tend to dislike him on that basis.

Truthfully, he's an exciting player to watch, explosive, in more ways than one.
I'm a fan, I try to just ignore his antics and enjoy his imagination and knowledge of the game of one pocket.
Works for me.

Jeff
 

phil dade

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Think Conners, McEnroe...even Tiger Woods. There is only one winner....the other guy is called LOSER. Who was runner up in the US open LY?

one of my best friends was the #1 teenage European tennis players in the 60's and was recruited to college here. He says, "Show me a god loser and I'll show you a loser!:D
 

1andDone

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One&done,

Yep,

But it ain't all his fault, you only get to play with the mind, body, and the soul you're dealt in the beginning. We all have faults, wouldn't you agree? He could very well be a nice guy to go fishing with, or have the occasional beer with, or even sit and discuss politics or pool with for all I know, anything out of that competitive arena, he might be a really good guy.

I only get to see him in that highly competitive environment, where his senses are all on high alert and his emotions are worn on his sleeve. He's a rabid competitor, he hates to lose, and when he does, he vents it in several different forms, none of which we like to see in our heros. So we hold it against him.

He didn't get to the level he plays at without having a giant ego, he believes he's the best, but his actions in the arena just aren't as admirable as some of our other heros, therefore we tend to dislike him on that basis.

Truthfully, he's an exciting player to watch, explosive, in more ways than one.
I'm a fan, I try to just ignore his antics and enjoy his imagination and knowledge of the game of one pocket.
Works for me.

Jeff
I understand where you're coming from. I have much respect for Scott's game. I have purchased "power one pocket" and learned a few things.
We are all different people with different personalities. We all have different histories which have made us who we are. I suppose being a little guy growing up, enduring bullying and having to fend off the big kids causes me to relate more to the quiet, calm, and deadly style of Alex.

One thing is for sure, players with personalities like Scott's do bring an element of excitement and drama to what would otherwise be a boring game to watch. That is huge! I just think Scott takes it too far at times and while some can ignore it, I just can't. That's the basis for my opinion.

And yes, God knows I'm not perfect, Lol! I am also guilty of committing some of the antics which I can't tolerate from others. Not very often, but occasionally I'll lose it. Just part of being human, I guess. :)
 

Billy Jackets

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While I agree , there are always new shots to be learned , invented, mastered, I doubt there are that many{that you want to shoot in high pressure situations} Alex doesn't already know , he has been playing all the best players in the world including Efren for the last 20 plus years.
 

Island Drive

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Think Conners, McEnroe...even Tiger Woods. There is only one winner....the other guy is called LOSER. Who was runner up in the US open LY?

one of my best friends was the #1 teenage European tennis players in the 60's and was recruited to college here. He says, "Show me a god loser and I'll show you a loser!:D

Keep in mind, the guys that finish second, make the guy who got first ''earn it''. Those guys keep the top guys ''in line'' and on their toes.
 

lll

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i posted this in another thread but ill repeat it here
usually alex is very jovial and bantering with the spectators in most of his play ive seen live or watched
this match he was ALL BUSINESS....eye of the tiger.... FOCUSED
THATS A STRENGTH
 

Island Drive

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i posted this in another thread but ill repeat it here
usually alex is very jovial and bantering with the spectators in most of his play ive seen live or watched
this match he was ALL BUSINESS....eye of the tiger.... FOCUSED
THATS A STRENGTH

Yep, he plays like the greats from the depression era. Seeing Lassiter, Amadeo, Coslosky, Crane, Balsis, Boston Shorty and the gang live, chirping and in action....all it is, it's life, hand to mouth. When your put in this situation from the beginning, your core self is quite different.
 

Jeff sparks

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i posted this in another thread but ill repeat it here
usually alex is very jovial and bantering with the spectators in most of his play ive seen live or watched
this match he was ALL BUSINESS....eye of the tiger.... FOCUSED
THATS A STRENGTH
Good observation III! Very true.
 

stedyfred

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I realize that Scott Frost is known for his power one pocket but I think that any mention of the strengths of both of these players in this match must include Scott's play around the rack area on the second night. It was as good as I have ever seen, very high level with gr8 control of the cue ball while bridging over balls in the stack. Congrats to both players on a gr8 match.
 
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