Pittsburgh Billy

Ken_4fun · Sep 22, 2011

This question is for Mr. Incardona, and I hope to ask in a way that doesnt piss a guy off. Others are welcome to comment.

I have heard that at one time, he was "the best in the country" in 9 ball. I dont doubt it, as I have heard it from top players. But I have never heard that he was the "best in the country" in one pocket. Great player, yes, best in the country, nope. That has always been the Ronnie Allen and Efren's area.

But I think that from discussions, and tapes, commentary he does, he really loves one-pocket. Hell, I dont know if he really likes 9 ball.

Obviously, I havent been the best at anything, pool included.

Is it better to be the "best in the country", or one of the best one pocket player? I also thought that the best 9baller, is a short life, and you can enjoy one pocket at a top level for years and years.

Any comments? I hope this comes out positive, as it is intended that way.

Ken

lll · Sep 22, 2011

Ken_4fun said:
This question is for Mr. Incardona, and I hope to ask in a way that doesnt piss a guy off. Others are welcome to comment.

I have heard that at one time, he was "the best in the country" in 9 ball. I dont doubt it, as I have heard it from top players. But I have never heard that he was the "best in the country" in one pocket. Great player, yes, best in the country, nope. That has always been the Ronnie Allen and Efren's area.

But I think that from discussions, and tapes, commentary he does, he really loves one-pocket. Hell, I dont know if he really likes 9 ball.

Obviously, I havent been the best at anything, pool included.

Is it better to be the "best in the country", or one of the best one pocket player? I also thought that the best 9baller, is a short life, and you can enjoy one pocket at a top level for years and years.

Any comments? I hope this comes out positive, as it is intended that way.

Ken

i would think you have to give tougher spots if you are "the best"

tonygreen · Sep 22, 2011

there used to be arguments (heated argumentsthat "Cardone is the best 9-ball player in the country" other names thrown into that were Sigel , Hall , Reyes) but the arguments were usually squashed when gambling came into play. End of argument.

WinCardona I heard your name in so many debates years before I ever saw you play. Rumors of your action traveled far and wide.

3RAILKICK · Sep 22, 2011

Ken-

You're supposed to be on vacation.

Take care

Ken_4fun · Sep 22, 2011

3RAILKICK said:
Ken-

You're supposed to be on vacation.

Take care

I am in Napa and Samona Counties this week and this weekend I will be hooking up with a guy from AZ Billiards in San Francisco to play at Family Billiards.

SF is an awesome area!

Ken

One Pocket Ghost · Sep 23, 2011

Ken_4fun said:
This question is for Mr. Incardona, and I hope to ask in a way that doesnt piss a guy off. Others are welcome to comment.

I have heard that at one time, he was "the best in the country" in 9 ball. I dont doubt it, as I have heard it from top players. But I have never heard that he was the "best in the country" in one pocket. Great player, yes, best in the country, nope. That has always been the Ronnie Allen and Efren's area.
But I think that from discussions, and tapes, commentary he does, he really loves one-pocket. Hell, I dont know if he really likes 9 ball.

Obviously, I havent been the best at anything, pool included.

Is it better to be the "best in the country", or one of the best one pocket player? I also thought that the best 9baller, is a short life, and you can enjoy one pocket at a top level for years and years.

Any comments? I hope this comes out positive, as it is intended that way.

Ken

Well Ken, I guess everybody else is too shy to chime in, but the Ghost isn't..

...imo...

It's all about the time frame...yes, of course, Efren was the best in his time frame, and Ronnie was the best in his time (or was it Artie?)

...

But Billy was in his One Pocket prime right inbetween Ronnie and Efren's time...and at that time there was no clear cut "best in the country"...it was a toss up/tie between a handful of players for "best in the country" - and Billy was one of those players in the toss up...some of the others in that toss up/tie for best player, imo, were, Hopkins, Grady, Varner, Bugs, and the 'cookie monster'.

- Ghost

NH Steve · Sep 23, 2011

One Pocket Ghost said:
Well Ken, I guess everybody else is too shy to chime in, but the Ghost isn't.....imo...

It's all about the time frame...yes, of course, Efren was the best in his time frame, and Ronnie was the best in his...

But Billy was in his One Pocket prime right inbetween Ronnie and Efren's time...and at that time there was no clear cut "best in the country"...it was a toss up/tie between a handful of players for "best in the country" - and Billy was one of those players in the toss up...some of the others in that toss up/tie for best player, imo, were, Hopkins, Grady, Varner, Bugs, and the 'cookie monster'.

- Ghost

That is a pretty good lineup, too.

fred bentivegna · Sep 24, 2011

Let's not forget...

Let's not forget...

Danny DiLiberto in the early 90s. Even as bad as he played the game, Danny was still jus about as good as anybody in the late 80s and early 90s, due to his powerful ball running ability. He played Billy I 10 to 8 around that time!

Beard

If you could get the balls up table, Danny would just pay it off right then.

usblues · Sep 24, 2011

strong

strong

I didnt realize DD was that strong Freddie.I saw him a little in LA around 85-6.Ronnie was there too.Thats funny about him paying off.Earl would do the same in 9ball if you were on the 5 or 6 and it looked like a breeze.He'd just grab the rack and balls and alot of guys ,I should say some guys didnt know what he was really doing till it was too late.......

jrhendy · Sep 24, 2011

fred bentivegna said:
Danny DiLiberto in the early 90s. Even as bad as he played the game, Danny was still jus about as good as anybody in the late 80s and early 90s, due to his powerful ball running ability. He played Billy I 10 to 8 around that time!

Beard

If you could get the balls up table, Danny would just pay it off right then.

I remember when Danny came out west and before he became a very good one pocket player.

Ronnie's favorite line when he was trying to match up with Danny at that time was "Ain't no way a you'se can beat a y'all playing one pocket.

One of the things I truly miss in modern day matching up is the barking before a game started. Ritchie Florence once told Ed Kelly before a match, Ed "Champagne" Kelly, you will be Budwiser Kelly when I get done with you.

Ed beat him 11/3.

fred bentivegna · Sep 24, 2011

Just kidding

Just kidding

usblues said:
I didnt realize DD was that strong Freddie.I saw him a little in LA around 85-6.Ronnie was there too.Thats funny about him paying off.Earl would do the same in 9ball if you were on the 5 or 6 and it looked like a breeze.He'd just grab the rack and balls and alot of guys ,I should say some guys didnt know what he was really doing till it was too late.......

I was just kidding about Danny paying off. But he might as well have paid off. He hated playing up table, no patience, and was seldom a favorite to win from there.

BEard

Ken_4fun · Sep 24, 2011

LOL

I have only seen DD play RA on a DVD from Jay Halfert. DD played the exact shot I would have shot, and was dominated by Ronnie Allen. Ronnie played shots that I wouldnt imagine, and freakin made them.

I had heard from others that at the time of that match that DD was past his best days, but IMO, Ronnie would have be right in the mix with todays top 2 players.

DD would have not been there with the top guys of todays, "POWER ONE POCKET" of today.

Bill Incardona, IMO, plays like DD. Conservative, solid and predictable.

Ken

Ken_4fun · Sep 24, 2011

jrhendy said:
One of the things I truly miss in modern day matching up is the barking before a game started. Ritchie Florence once told Ed Kelly before a match, Ed "Champagne" Kelly, you will be Budwiser Kelly when I get done with you.

Ed beat him 11/3.

The problem with the barking today. Nobody has a dime to play and its just barking.

I PERSONALLY HATE IT, THEY BARK, AND BARK, AND BARK...and bark.

I prefered watching Weenie quietly make a game, and playing. Players of today prefer a barkfest.

Ken

tonygreen · Sep 24, 2011

NH Steve said:
That is a pretty good lineup, too.

Let me say this ...for a handfull of years prior to 85 (when Reyes came) nobody played safe like Hopkins .

Cowboy Dennis · Sep 24, 2011

Ken_4fun said:
Bill Incardona, IMO, plays like DD. Conservative, solid and predictable.

Ken

Conservative & predictable??? I've seen that somewhere before.

WARNING: Some of the lines in the post quoted below have been changed by me to make it more accurate

or less inaccurate

and less confrontational. The only thing I can guarantee that was untouched are the words in "red".

DOUBLE WARNING: This quoted post is only a "purported, hypothetical, alleged, possibly inaccurate, theoretical, supposed, ostensible, "not what I said", type of post. I'm not responsible for it's accuracy

.

fred bentivegna said:
The most telling description regarding Ronnie Allen's (or Efrens) One Pocket game came from top player, Bill Incardona, the voice of the Accu-Stat Pool Videos. When Bill was asked to rate Ronnie or Efrens game against Allen Hopkins of NJ or Bo Hopkins of L.A., Billy gave this account:

"I played Hopkins for $1000 or $500 or $20 a game on the roof of his house in Jersey. He spotted me 10 to 8. Even though we were on his house, and he is a great ping-pong player,his game is very conservative and predictable. I was totally comfortable and relaxed, and able to play my game, which allowed me to beat him.
I later played Ronnie or Efren in Las Vegas or Miami, in my pool room, on the roof, for the same bet, and with the same spot, 10 to 8.

The difference was when I played Ronnie or maybe Efren, the whole time I felt like I was in a very hot oven. I never had a clue as to what Ronnie or Efren was going to do next. They were crashing balls and running out, and the cue ball was constantly flying around all over the table. I got to thinking the only safe place to leave the cue ball was in a bank vault with my copies of SM&S's."

These old guys do ramble on

.

Dennis

Guest · Sep 24, 2011

jrhendy said:
I remember when Danny came out west and before he became a very good one pocket player.

Ronnie's favorite line when he was trying to match up with Danny at that time was "Ain't no way a you'se can beat a y'all playing one pocket.

One of the things I truly miss in modern day matching up is the barking before a game started. Ritchie Florence once told Ed Kelly before a match, Ed "Champagne" Kelly, you will be Budwiser Kelly when I get done with you.

Ed beat him 11/3.

I love that, John. Thanks for sharing it.

lll · Sep 24, 2011

Clare said:
I love that, John. Thanks for sharing it.

clare when was it that you were around the pool scene???
maybe you can tell us some stories and who you heard was the best from the grapevine at that time??

petie · Sep 25, 2011

Ken_4fun said:
The problem with the barking today. Nobody has a dime to play and its just barking.

I PERSONALLY HATE IT, THEY BARK, AND BARK, AND BARK...and bark.

I prefered watching Weenie quietly make a game, and playing. Players of today prefer a barkfest.

Ken

This reminds me of this year's DCC. After midnight, the wolves come out big time. One player from Nashville who had his whole family there was woofin' on Dr. Billy to play banks for $5000. He huffed and he puffed and just about the time he thought he was gonna blow the house down, Billy says, "OK, lets just play some banks for $5000." So they reconvened in the TV or TAR room about 10 minutes later. Well 10 minutes became a half an hour and finally Mr. Nashville says, "I don't have the money to post but here is $500 that you can hold to guarentee I'll be back tomorrow night with the $5000." You'd have been proud of Billy. He said, "I don't want your $500. Just come back tomorrow and we'll play if you have the money." What a gentleman. I'm sure Billy remembers this.

tonygreen · Sep 25, 2011

I quit pool for nearly ten years, I see things havent changed that much. the first half of the 90's was full of "woofing" but there were was big gamble this DCC era is half a ball below that time frame. Guys like Neudecker , Bushwhacker, Geese , Prince these players got spots but gambled yot know what i mean.

JAM · Sep 25, 2011

tonygreen said:
I quit pool for nearly ten years, I see things havent changed that much. the first half of the 90's was full of "woofing" but there were was big gamble this DCC era is half a ball below that time frame. Guys like Neudecker , Bushwhacker, Geese , Prince these players got spots but gambled yot know what i mean.

I remember all those guys. Here's a thread about Geese on this forum: The Geese.

Don't forget Bobby Hawk, Fat Wayne from Baltimore, West Virginia Frank, Mamoo, Nate and Jake, Stuey and T-Crown, White Max, Tom-Tom, Elevator Larry, Fat Mike, Quick Vic, Strawberry, Sterling, et cetera.

Here's some photos from the 1986 Maryland State Tournament. Mike Sigel won it! There's ol' Geese, too.

Pittsburgh Billy

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