A Ball Running Choice

but you referenced the wei table to me for my post.

it doesnt make sense to me what you are referring to, as to how it applies to my post.

beatle said:

i know i am dense at times. but what are you talking about.
this is one pocket not straight pool. your diagram is for that.

or am i being leveled here?

or is it some kind of showing that you may not get across enough for the one playing the eight first and then relaying it to straight pool.

i must be dense, or dick is right about you. and i cant believe that could be accurate.

Click to expand...

beatle dennis is just being his sarcastic , needling self to the ghost
dont know what level sts this is doc can you help
i think hes trying to tell us 4- 1 -8
icbw but i dont think so

Williebetmore said:

Ghost,
I'm thinking it depends on the pocket size and skill of the shooter (and maybe how much straight pool they play).

Despite the sentiment, I would take 4-8-1 all day long (at least I'll have a game since people won't quit me).

I need all the balls, and 4 to 8 is the most natural. If I can't make the 8 (with a less than 45 degree angle), I don't deserve to win, and shouldn't be gambling anyway. If I happen to get too straight on the 8, just follow down and bank the 1 - at least I've got 2 balls down and am shooting at game ball. Any moderate angle on the 8 gives almost automatic position on the one - borderline angles still have possibilities.

If I try to go 4-1-8 and miss position on the 1, its a scramble and I still need 2 balls.

Efren gets position on anything he wants, but 4-8-1 is the highest yield for a straight pool player (the more "natural" cue ball movement) - by far.

P.S. - if my backer forced me, I would still make a good try at 4-1-8; but damn you need to get good on the one.

Click to expand...

Exactly right, WBM, for all the reasons you stated. If a player makes the 4, and doesn't scratch, it would be real difficult for him NOT to get out; or at least to get a good shot on the 1 ball for the game.

The shape from the 4 to the 1 is real easy to foul up, and cause greater difficulty with getting to a good shot on the 8. However, that shot is probably the favorite for 9-ball players.

Doc

androd said:

Ah Dennis, you make it all worthwhile. A tip of my hat to you.
Rod.

Click to expand...

Just when I was starting to think that those nasty AZers might actually have a chance over here, you come through, as usual .

RBL

lll said:

beatle dennis is just being his sarcastic , needling self to the ghost
dont know what level sts this is doc can you help
i think hes trying to tell us 4- 1 -8
icbw but i dont think so

Click to expand...

Larry,

You know me too well, I shall have you whacked . I was just agreeing with Mr. Bill.

wincardona said:

Pleeeeeeez

Billy I.

Click to expand...

beatle said:

but you referenced the wei table to me for my post.

it doesnt make sense to me what you are referring to, as to how it applies to my post.

Click to expand...

beatle,

If it needs to be explained it's not as funny .

Dennis

Well then...looks like it's me, Doc, and Williebetmore, against the Mongol hordes...

- Ghosty

One Pocket Ghost said:

Well then...looks like it's me, Doc, and Williebetmore, against the Mongol hordes...

- Ghosty

Click to expand...

And if any of us should happen to match up at the Derby, I promise to never quit you guys

One Pocket Ghost said:

Finally!...

Thanks Don...it figures that it took a straight pool player to fully understand this position-play situation/choice.....

And especially if the pockets are tight or a little tight, say 4" - 4-1/4"...in that case, shooting the 4ball with a 1/2 tip of inside english makes the 4 much more makeable than hitting it with low left spin - much easier to rattle it and miss it that way.

Besides...I am such a wuss, and I would be really scared to play the shot the correct way. (like all the good players would)...

- Ghost

PS, Hey Don...I'd be curious to hear what Danny-D. would say - if you talk to him, ask him.

Click to expand...

Ghro$t,

It is heartwarming to know, that Nancy Pelosi is just barely more conservative than you are...I'm sure she would play the shot the same as you..

Duckinator <---would rather miss the damn ball, than shoot at it like a scaredy cat-wimp...

SJDinPHX said:

Ghro$t,

It is heartwarming to know, that Nancy Pelosi is just barely more conservative than you are...I'm sure she would play the shot the same as you..

Duckinator <---would rather miss the damn ball, than shoot at it like a scaredy cat wimp...

Click to expand...

It took you 30 minutes to write that??????????????????????????????????

How many "edits" will you need before it's complete??????????????????????????????????????????????

One Pocket Ghost said:

Hey Don...I'd be curious to hear what Danny-D. would say - if you talk to him, ask him.

Click to expand...

OPG,
He will be here in a week, I'll set it up for him and ask.

I have spent an awful lot of time with Danny (straight pool and one pocket), and I pick all my patterns in both games according to the principle of WWDD (What Would Danny Do). While I am not a high roller, I would completely empty out on Danny picking 4-8-1.

Danny spent a lifetime on learning the difference in just the type of patterns you show - you could get out either way, but if one way is a few percentage points "safer" or "better" then over 60 years on the road it makes a difference to him in terms of cash. He would see the lower risk option as "right" and the higher risk option as "wrong"; even if they are very close.

Some of his "principles" that apply here: Anything requiring natural cue ball roll is better than forcing it; anything forward is better than backward; and having a shot at game ball is ALWAYS the nuts even if its a bank. If you try 4-1-8 and come up short on the 1 or too far on the 1, you will need to play safe and there will be 2 balls left, of which your opponent only needs 1.

(he will often play a safer next to last shot and just take a bank at game ball instead of risking missing the next to last ball just to make the game ball easier - he will point out such decisions several balls ahead, and will do such sequences quite often even when the last ball he can bank isn't for the game - he HATES to miss with the table open at straight pool or one pocket.)

P.S. - I'll post after he visits...I could be wrong...it's happened before...but I do know I wouldn't have to think about the sequence more than a few seconds, I'm committed to "the principles".
P.P.S. - Even a very small difference in the position of the 4 ball make a big difference in success rate (the closer the rail and the closer to our pocket the more proper becomes the choice of 4-8-1).

Here is the George Breedlove method for deciding which way is "better" for the individual player: Shoot it 10 times 4-1-8, then shoot it 10 times 4-8-1. You will not need anyone's "opinion" on which is better for you, it is usually completely obvious after a few tries, 10 each is usually MORE than enough.

This method is foolproof - in that it will quickly reveal your limitations.

P.S. - I have no idea what Billy I. meant by "pleeeez"....his opinion would carry some weight.

Williebetmore said:

OPG,
He will be here in a week, I'll set it up for him and ask.

I have spent an awful lot of time with Danny (straight pool and one pocket), and I pick all my patterns in both games according to the principle of WWDD (What Would Danny Do). While I am not a high roller, I would completely empty out on Danny picking 4-8-1.

Danny spent a lifetime on learning the difference in just the type of patterns you show - you could get out either way, but if one way is a few percentage points "safer" or "better" then over 60 years on the road it makes a difference to him in terms of cash. He would see the lower risk option as "right" and the higher risk option as "wrong"; even if they are very close.

Anything requiring natural cue ball roll is better than forcing it; anything forward is better than backward; and having a shot at game ball is ALWAYS the nuts even if its a bank. If you try 4-1-8 and come up short on the 1 or too far on the 1, you will need to play safe and there will be 2 balls left, of which your opponent only needs 1.

(he will often play a safer next to last shot and just take a bank at game ball instead of risking missing the next to last ball just to make the game ball easier - he will point out such decisions several balls ahead, and will do such sequences quite often even when the last ball he can bank isn't for the game - he HATES to miss with the table open at straight pool or one pocket.)

P.S. - I'll post after he visits...I could be wrong...it's happened before...but I do know I wouldn't have to think about the sequence more than a few seconds, I'm committed to "the principles".
P.P.S. - Even a very small difference in the position of the 4 ball make a big difference in success rate (the closer the rail and the closer to our pocket the more proper becomes the choice of 4-8-1).

Click to expand...

Don.....It's quite clear that we are wasting our time discussing higher-thinking in ball pocketing percentages, strategy, and optimum position play with certain, primitive thinking, ex-9ball playing, converts to One Pocket, that are dragging their knuckles along the virtual ground here right now..

- Gho$t

Williebetmore said:

Here is the George Breedlove method for deciding which way is "better" for the individual player: Shoot it 10 times 4-1-8, then shoot it 10 times 4-8-1. You will not need anyone's "opinion" on which is better for you, it is usually completely obvious after a few tries, 10 each is usually MORE than enough.

This method is foolproof - in that it will quickly reveal your limitations.

P.S. - I have no idea what Billy I. meant by "pleeeez"....his opinion would carry some weight.

Click to expand...

He meant the 4-8-1 was probably a joke.
Rod.

Williebetmore said:

Here is the George Breedlove method for deciding which way is "better" for the individual player: Shoot it 10 times 4-1-8, then shoot it 10 times 4-8-1. You will not need anyone's "opinion" on which is better for you, it is usually completely obvious after a few tries, 10 each is usually MORE than enough.

This method is foolproof - in that it will quickly reveal your limitations.

P.S. - I have no idea what Billy I. meant by "pleeeez"....his opinion would carry some weight.

Click to expand...

I think "pleeeez" meant forget the 4-8-1

Williebetmore said:

P.S. - I have no idea what Billy I. meant by "pleeeez"

Click to expand...

Don....Let me interpret that for you...what that [always] means is..."if the Ghost says black, then I say white".......

- Ghosty<-------- Just trying to keep my STS level high...

One Pocket Ghost said:

Don....Let me interpret that for you...what that [always] means is..."if the Ghost says black, then I say white"......

Click to expand...

Hey, that's not fair, I agreed with you .

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AFJP3DEfc2HYps4POxT3Qchs4kOxT4kOxT@4AFJP3DEfc2HYps4POxT3Qchs3XEfc3Xchr4kOxT3kCKa3kDQl2kRyO@4AFJP3Dchr2HYps2PRyO3Qchs@4AFJP3Dchr2HYps2PRyO3Qchs2cYps3cbbu2kRyO2kYiK2kaoD1kCtd@4AFJP3Dchr3Hbbu1PCtd3Qchs@4AFJP4BAMA4CEMO3DBKO4EBal3FDvO3GBJl4HCpe3ICpe3JFSe4KAEe4LFbe4MCpA4NBjO3OCYA1PCtd3rTECTHIS_IS_CLEARLY_YOUR_BEST_CHANCE_TO_RUN_150_AND_OUT.&ZZ@[/CUETABLE]

androd said:

He meant the 4-8-1 was probably a joke.
Rod.

Click to expand...

Wrong Rod...(insert STS here)...He meant it was absolutely, for sure, a bad joke. Also Don, the Ghrost's black/white analogy was of a little off...When he
says "stupid".....Billy says "smart"... (imagine that)

4-1-8. Because there are three ways to get from 1-8 if you get wrong.

One Pocket Ghost said:

Don....Let me interpret that for you...what that [always] means is..."if the Ghost says black, then I say white".......

- Ghosty<-------- Just trying to keep my STS level high...

Click to expand...

If you think that the 4-8-1 is is a matter of preference, then you need 8/6 at least from SJD.

And when you say white, i'll only say black when your wrong, Bruce.

Billy I.