Nemesis

Jeff sparks

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Apr 2, 2015
Messages
3,317
From
Houston, Texas
I have this guy that I play with occasionally, it seems I never play up to my potential when we play..

He is a better overall player, in that he moves much better, and he banks long rail banks about as good as anyone I've ever seen.

I play the early game close to his speed and perhaps the middle game also, but the end game belongs to him because I end up giving him some kind of bank and he just never misses.

When I play him, it's like I'm in some kind of a trance, it's like I have brain lock and have difficulty doing everything.. My speed is off and my ability to pocket balls goes down about 50%, I don't even see the table clearly and leave him in spots where he can move balls and trap me, it's very frustrating...

It's torture, sheer torture, because I simply play like a fool when we play and I don't know the reason for it.. I am a little intimidated, but I ain't scared, I guess I just have a mental block when we play..

I'm convinced the best antidote, is to just avoid playing him.. Playing him shakes my confidence and just sets me back, it usually takes me a couple of days to regain my previous form...

Anybody else out there ever experienced this phenomenon against a certain opponent? And if so, what was your solution? Did you just quit playing them also, or did you visit a witch doctor? :(
 

Island Drive

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May 1, 2011
Messages
5,192
From
florence, colorado
I have this guy that I play with occasionally, it seems I never play up to my potential when we play..

He is a better overall player, in that he moves much better, and he banks long rail banks about as good as anyone I've ever seen.

I play the early game close to his speed and perhaps the middle game also, but the end game belongs to him because I end up giving him some kind of bank and he just never misses.

When I play him, it's like I'm in some kind of a trance, it's like I have brain lock and have difficulty doing everything.. My speed is off and my ability to pocket balls goes down about 50%, I don't even see the table clearly and leave him in spots where he can move balls and trap me, it's very frustrating...

It's torture, sheer torture, because I simply play like a fool when we play and I don't know the reason for it.. I am a little intimidated, but I ain't scared, I guess I just have a mental block when we play..

I'm convinced the best antidote, is to just avoid playing him.. Playing him shakes my confidence and just sets me back, it usually takes me a couple of days to regain my previous form...

Anybody else out there ever experienced this phenomenon against a certain opponent? And if so, what was your solution? Did you just quit playing them also, or did you visit a witch doctor? :(

Within the BOLD statement, lies your answer, good or bad.

There was a guy in Denver, he was the best at icing you....1/2 the time he took too long to pull the trigger the other half was his Up/Down/Look/Around UDLA move, (I know LS John will love that UDLA expression)....anywho it took me a couple years to figure out how ta beat em in match play (would NEVER gamble with the Dude) at his own game....never thought I could but being as annoying as getout.... I kept thinking about it. Once I figured out a plan I tested it....worked :cool:. Twenty years later I ran into another ''personality'' :mad: that did the exact same thing. tho this time I did not get mad/upset. So again, I tried it out for the second time. Swish.
 

gulfportdoc

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Jun 25, 2004
Messages
12,654
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Gulfport, Mississippi
Yeah, I've had one or two guys over the years who I couldn't do anything with. It's probably psychological, but on the other hand, once in awhile we play a guy whose strengths just happen to mesh with our weaknesses; and it's not even intentional. It's just a random mismatch of styles. It would occur most especially in one-pocket, where so many shots and strategies are available.

It's similar in society, where we just can't get along with some specific people, whereas others seem to get along with them fine.

My solution? Play someone else. Life is too damn short.

~Doc
 

jalapus logan

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Feb 14, 2007
Messages
307
Sounds like me vs Brumback, lol. I know exactly how you feel. I get slaughtered every time, lol. I must be a sado-masochist, cause I enjoy the beatings, ha!:eek:
 

Island Drive

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May 1, 2011
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florence, colorado
Yeah, I've had one or two guys over the years who I couldn't do anything with. It's probably psychological, but on the other hand, once in awhile we play a guy whose strengths just happen to mesh with our weaknesses; and it's not even intentional. It's just a random mismatch of styles. It would occur most especially in one-pocket, where so many shots and strategies are available.

It's similar in society, where we just can't get along with some specific people, whereas others seem to get along with them fine.

My solution? Play someone else. Life is too damn short.

~Doc

Tho, if your opponent is ''consistent'' with their behavior, there's almost always a way ta skin a cat. Just do ya really wanna waste your time??? That's what it Often comes down too. It feels much better, just to walk. :D
 

Island Drive

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May 1, 2011
Messages
5,192
From
florence, colorado
Yeah, but I just call it a Bergman. :heh


Noooooooo it's D/U/L/A/D/u/D LMFrikin'AO.

It's the miniature u before the D that grinds MY GRITS....:lol

As I take a break here and there today to visit here, I'm washing all my interior walls by hand. Just purchased this home 9-15, finally up for it, boy the air feels quite a bit nicer in my bedroom....allot of work....hope ta finish tomorrow before the Bronco game starts.
 

keoneyo

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Mar 31, 2014
Messages
2,883
I think its how you view loss and how you feel losing to this particular opponent. There is a particular guy I enjoy playing but my win/loss ratio is 25%/75%. He is a great guy and is much more experienced then me. RA schooled him and whenever Efren is in town he plays him with a nice spot.
So it really doesnt bother me when he beats me but I keep trying to correct my flaws. Thats why I keep playing him.
The funny thing is when I win Im much more satisfied and he is much more perturbed than I when he wins. If you really are bugged when you play him then you might want to analyze that and correct that in yourself. I know somewhat about you Jeff and you have a winning attitude so I would suggest you do find a way to beat him. But like SunTzu said in The Art of War wait for the appropriate time and when you are ready to strike. You can do it.

If the guy is a jerk or arrogant in his ways then I dont care If I never lose to him. I put him on ignore.
 

beatle

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Jun 21, 2009
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as said if a jerk and it isnt fun playing dont play him.

but most times you run into someone that flusters you its because he is much better than you than you think so nothing you do works. it is you that has not read his speed right. so go back to the table and figure out his true speed and play with the correct spot against him.
 

sappo

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Mar 29, 2006
Messages
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Tucson AZ
Jeff, Ive experienced the same thing. I can be playing at the top of my game and in walks this guy that I never seem to be able to play my best. So we play and sure enough I lose. But its the way I lose that gets me. I don't execute the way I have been. Its mental! Just analyze where you go wrong and work on those issues

If your guy banks so well you must find a spot to leave him so he can't get that shot. keith
 

Jeff sparks

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Apr 2, 2015
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3,317
From
Houston, Texas
as said if a jerk and it isnt fun playing dont play him.

but most times you run into someone that flusters you its because he is much better than you than you think so nothing you do works. it is you that has not read his speed right. so go back to the table and figure out his true speed and play with the correct spot against him.

Yep,
Pretty good insight beatle,
He plays good and I play bad, so it's difficult to handicap... He won't match up the way I need to win, he's street wise... He's not giving me enough to beat him the way we play now and I've asked for more weight but he won't give it.. I'm kinda glad, because if I lost to him with the game I asked for, I might just quit the game... And he's not a jerk at all, he is a really nice guy who bets his own money and will match up close with anybody and bet a ton...

Thanks for the replies fellas, it's comforting to read about others aboard the same ship...

I'm just gonna pass his action until I feel I've improved enough to win at the game he gives me, which may never happen... :(
 

Island Drive

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May 1, 2011
Messages
5,192
From
florence, colorado
Yep,
Pretty good insight beatle,
He plays good and I play bad, so it's difficult to handicap... He won't match up the way I need to win, he's street wise... He's not giving me enough to beat him the way we play now and I've asked for more weight but he won't give it.. I'm kinda glad, because if I lost to him with the game I asked for, I might just quit the game... And he's not a jerk at all, he is a really nice guy who bets his own money and will match up close with anybody and bet a ton...

Thanks for the replies fellas, it's comforting to read about others aboard the same ship...

I'm just gonna pass his action until I feel I've improved enough to win at the game he gives me, which may never happen... :(

To me, sounds like a great rotation player still ''struggling'' with the mindset needed to become really good at one pocket, because that play style was not built into ones roots. Very understandable.
 

LSJohn

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Aug 15, 2013
Messages
8,530
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monett missouri
I have one player that I always play horrible against, but fortunately for me it doesn't cost me a thing: It's Joey Gray. :D

If you want to know why it doesn't cost me anything, send a self-addresses stamped envelope to:

Ulysses Rufus Stuck (you can call me U.R.)
123 Easy Street
Easyville, Missouri
 

Tom Wirth

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
2,972
From
Delray Beach, Florida
I have this guy that I play with occasionally, it seems I never play up to my potential when we play..

He is a better overall player, in that he moves much better, and he banks long rail banks about as good as anyone I've ever seen.

I play the early game close to his speed and perhaps the middle game also, but the end game belongs to him because I end up giving him some kind of bank and he just never misses.

When I play him, it's like I'm in some kind of a trance, it's like I have brain lock and have difficulty doing everything.. My speed is off and my ability to pocket balls goes down about 50%, I don't even see the table clearly and leave him in spots where he can move balls and trap me, it's very frustrating...

It's torture, sheer torture, because I simply play like a fool when we play and I don't know the reason for it.. I am a little intimidated, but I ain't scared, I guess I just have a mental block when we play..

I'm convinced the best antidote, is to just avoid playing him.. Playing him shakes my confidence and just sets me back, it usually takes me a couple of days to regain my previous form...

Anybody else out there ever experienced this phenomenon against a certain opponent? And if so, what was your solution? Did you just quit playing them also, or did you visit a witch doctor? :(

Hi Jeff, Sounds like you have a gateway to a far better understanding of the inner workings of One Pocket by playing this guy. As long as the stakes and the losses are manageable, you should play this guy as often as you can. If you change your goal from an attempt to beat this guy to one of learning from him will reduce the pressure you now feel.

Let's first look at this one statement in bold where you say you pretty much hold your own in the early stages of the game but the end game belongs to him. The end game is without doubt the most difficult portion of a One Pocket game to learn. By playing this guy and with keen observations on your part, you will slowly pick up on some of the moves he is laying on you. You may then occasionally apply some of these same traps on him.

Sometimes the risk of one low percentage shot carries no immediate open shot to your opponent but it may lead to being locked in a trap several shots later. The momentum and pressure increases like a master chess player who exploits a bad move by his opponent. In up table games the position of the balls may favor you but if you choose not to move a ball that favors your opponent into an area that helps your cause, and instead shoot a low percentage bank on a ball that currently favors you and miss, he will then have a second ball in a favorable position and you will have lost a valuable asset. Eventually you will find yourself in a lot of trouble. I'm thinking this is happening to you on some level.

Now, what strategy should you employ to raise your game winning percentages against this guy? Strong banking skills are a premium asset, especially toward the end game. Practice your banking skills! Practice your weakest banks first and remember many of these banks need to be speed sensitive. This will help, but improving your banking skills takes time and you want to learn how to win more games now. Try to stay away from too many up table games with this player. This is where you are getting out of stroke and he is dominating you at this end of the table anyway. There is risk of quick losses by forcing the action with this strategy but it sounds like when the balls go up table your chances of winning drop dramatically.

Burt, in the Hustler said it best. "You don't get paid for yardage". It doesn't matter if you force the game to last a long time if you also guarantee yourself a loss by doing it. The best and fastest way to improve your early game is by developing strong patterns for running balls. A big lead provides a huge advantage.

Well, this may be a start, but the bottom line is; you are playing someone who has stronger skills than yourself in most areas and that is going to be tough to overcome. Expect to lose but strive to learn from that loss. Find some other poor slob to beat, recover your losses and climb the same ladder of learning that you climbed when developing you Nine ball game.

Good luck,

Tom
 
Last edited:

Jeff sparks

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
3,317
From
Houston, Texas
Hi Jeff, Sounds like you have a gateway to a far better understanding of the inner workings of One Pocket by playing this guy. As long as the stakes and the losses are manageable, you should play this guy as often as you can. If you change your goal from an attempt to beat this guy to one of learning from him will reduce the pressure you now feel.

Let's first look at this one statement in bold where you say you pretty much hold your own in the early stages of the game but the end game belongs to him. The end game is without doubt the most difficult portion of a One Pocket game to learn. By playing this guy and with keen observations on your part, you will slowly pick up on some of the moves he is laying on you. You may then occasionally apply some of these same traps on him.

Sometimes the risk of one low percentage shot carries no immediate open shot to your opponent but it may lead to being locked in a trap several shots later. The momentum and pressure increases like a master chess player who exploits a bad move by his opponent. In up table games the position of the balls may favor you but if you choose not to move a ball that favors your opponent into an area that helps your cause, and instead shoot a low percentage bank on a ball that currently favors you and miss, he will then have a second ball in a favorable position and you will have lost a valuable asset. Eventually you will find yourself in a lot of trouble. I'm thinking this is happening to you on some level.

Now, what strategy should you employ to raise your game winning percentages against this guy? Strong banking skills are a premium asset, especially toward the end game. Practice your banking skills! Practice your weakest banks first and remember many of these banks need to be speed sensitive. This will help, but improving your banking skills takes time and you want to learn how to win more games now. Try to stay away from too many up table games with this player. This is where you are getting out of stroke and he is dominating you at this end of the table anyway. There is risk of quick losses by forcing the action with this strategy but it sounds like when the balls go up table your chances of winning drop dramatically.

Burt, in the Hustler said it best. "You don't get paid for yardage". It doesn't matter if you force the game to last a long time if you also guarantee yourself a loss by doing it. The best and fastest way to improve your early game is by developing strong patterns for running balls. A big lead provides a huge advantage.

Well, this may be a start, but the bottom line is; you are playing someone who has stronger skills than yourself in most areas and that is going to be tough to overcome. Expect to lose but strive to learn from that loss. Find some other poor slob to beat, recover your losses and climb the same ladder you climbed when developing you Nine ball game.

Good luck,

Tom

Wow...
That's exactly what's been happening to me... When I win, it's usually early... When he can't escape the break or he misses a crucial shot early and sells out, I usually win those games..

I want to play this guy cheap Tom, but like I said, he is very street wise and refuses to play cheap... If we play by the game, the cheapest he will play is $50.00 a game and a minimum of $200.00 in a race to 3. I have been careful with this guy because I know it's a really good score if I can manage to adjust my mental attitude to positive and slightly improve my overall game.. But no way can I ever beat this guy late, he's awesome...

I have seen him play multiple times for $10,000.00 a set, and he has lost the bulk of them because he was overmatched by an unknown road player... So he will sail off, he will lose something...

I have practiced the end game and my long rail banks, but apparently not nearly enough because they are no match for him, he hits those table length banks with uncanny accuracy and when he does miss, his speed is so good I usually have to give it to him or take a scratch following it in, he is pretty amazing... He played JJ in the Space City Open last week and beat him 3/0...
Two of those games were end games with 3 or less balls... You know they were fascinating to watch, and JJ plays the end game really good, but he got beat by this guys safeties and long rail banking skills... I watched every shot and I can't remember if Jeremy ever got a shot at his pocket in either end game...

This guy used to give me 12/7 break about, that was a year ago, I improved some and I agreed to play 9/7 plus the break... I feel like I should win at this game, if I could play my speed.. Problem is, I don't.. I am a few hundred stuck, less than $1000.00 over the last 4 plays, but I'm fairly street wise also, and I ain't usually a gift... So, I've decided to give this young fella some air for awhile... I will try him again when I feel my game has moved up a notch... Until then, I will watch him every time he plays and try to learn as much as possible about his game...

Thanks Tom, as usual you are amazingly accurate with your assessments..:)
 

pvclou

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Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
370
Nemesis

Yep,
Pretty good insight beatle,
He plays good and I play bad, so it's difficult to handicap... He won't match up the way I need to win, he's street wise... He's not giving me enough to beat him the way we play now and I've asked for more weight but he won't give it.. I'm kinda glad, because if I lost to him with the game I asked for, I might just quit the game... And he's not a jerk at all, he is a really nice guy who bets his own money and will match up close with anybody and bet a ton...

Thanks for the replies fellas, it's comforting to read about others aboard the same ship...

I'm just gonna pass his action until I feel I've improved enough to win at the game he gives me, which may never happen... :(



That sounds a lot like marvin
 

baby huey

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Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,950
Jeff, you're an aggressive player by nature. Somehow that has to be tempered by finesse especially in the end game. I would suggest playing someone very old school in nature and just throw the balls out there and just play the end game and discuss the potential shots and methods of playing different layouts. Also watch some old tapes on youtube for additional instruction.
 

Jeff sparks

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Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
3,317
From
Houston, Texas
Jeff, you're an aggressive player by nature. Somehow that has to be tempered by finesse especially in the end game. I would suggest playing someone very old school in nature and just throw the balls out there and just play the end game and discuss the potential shots and methods of playing different layouts. Also watch some old tapes on youtube for additional instruction.

I watched most of your matches last night and listened to some of your commentary... I was listening when you guys talked about you being deliberate and you said most people considered you to be a slow player... Jerry, I gotta say, you do look em over...:) I need to be more like you when it's my turn at the table, but it's hard to slow down, and I will never approach your pace...

Congratulations on your finish, you played very well.. And thanks for the advice, I will use it next time I play... I currently watch as much one pocket as I can stay awake for, but I will pay closer attention to the end games from now on... Hope to see you in April at Bogies...:)
 
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