Tournament Idea (assistance please)

SactownTom

Moderator
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
813
From
Sacramento CA
We are planning an event next year that I would like your opinions.
We are still fine tuning the details.

First it will be One Pocket.
Format:
Round Robin (everyone will play 15 matches)
Race to 20 balls made
Winner of the tournament will be based on total balls made.

When a rack is completed (say the score is 9-6) the person making the last ball will get the break.

Play stops when one of the opponents makes 20 balls in their pocket.
Tournament is based on "balls made" rather than Won-Loss records.

Friday evening start, play over the weekend, ending Sunday nite.
16 players MAX. $75 per player.
$1,000 added

We have 8 tournament tables in our tournamet room, that's why we decided to have 16 players, we can do this with less players.

16x $75 = $1200 + $1,000 = $2,200 total purse.

Pay 4 places: 1st $1,000 2nd $600 3rd $400 4th $200
 

Grady

Verified Member
Joined
May 23, 2004
Messages
491
From
Columbia, SC
Round Robin

Round Robin

A 16 player round robin tournament has 120 matches-divided by 8 tables equals 15 rounds over two and a half days. I sure hope you don't have any real slow matches.
Good luck with it.
Grady
 

Chris Cass

Verified Member
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
48
Way to go Grady. Hey Grady, will you be attending the Open this yr.? If so, do you think you and your wife might like to join our little group out for dinner? If so, we'd be more than happy to have you. I myself would be tickled to death by some of the faces when they see you walk in. They'll be about 20 of us at the Yukon restaurant. Brady's wife manages the play and from what I hear. They have some great food. You'll have a good time if you both decide to go.

Regards,

C.C.
 

SactownTom

Moderator
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
813
From
Sacramento CA
Grady said:
A 16 player round robin tournament has 120 matches-divided by 8 tables equals 15 rounds over two and a half days. I sure hope you don't have any real slow matches.
Good luck with it.
Grady

Thanks Grady, there are some very good 1Pkt players out here on the west coast.

Getting 16 for a 3 day tournament might be streching it. Maybe a 10 player tournament would be better. Saturday and Sunday Event.

Scheduling matches with 10 players would be better, 5 one day and 4 the next.

I figured 3 hours per match. if it were a race to 3 games, that would be 24 balls made by the winner.
 

NH Steve

Administrator
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
12,283
From
New Hampshire
SactownTom said:
Thanks Grady, there are some very good 1Pkt players out here on the west coast.

Getting 16 for a 3 day tournament might be streching it. Maybe a 10 player tournament would be better. Saturday and Sunday Event.

Scheduling matches with 10 players would be better, 5 one day and 4 the next.

I figured 3 hours per match. if it were a race to 3 games, that would be 24 balls made by the winner.
Tom, how about starting with 16 players -- or maybe even more -- but breaking the field down into 2 or 4 flights to start? You could set it up so that to 'make the cut' for the second round, players would have to reach a certain total ball count. That would weed out some of the weaker players :) -- leaving only players that have a genuine chance to win at that point. (Which might avoid the possibility of collusion to pad ball count in games that would be meaningless to a player with a very poor record, but that could mean alot to a player still in contention -- not that that would ever happen in One Pocket :) ) You might be able to accept even more than 16 in that kind of format. If you can use a format that ends up with two different flight winners, they could face off for a finals match to determine the tournament winner...
 

SactownTom

Moderator
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
813
From
Sacramento CA
Thanks Steve,
All good ideas and exactly the feedback I am looking for.

I'm not locked into any format at the present, just gathering ideas and of course, suggestions.


NH Steve said:
Tom, how about starting with 16 players -- or maybe even more -- but breaking the field down into 2 or 4 flights to start? You could set it up so that to 'make the cut' for the second round, players would have to reach a certain total ball count. That would weed out some of the weaker players :) -- leaving only players that have a genuine chance to win at that point. (Which might avoid the possibility of collusion to pad ball count in games that would be meaningless to a player with a very poor record, but that could mean alot to a player still in contention -- not that that would ever happen in One Pocket :) ) You might be able to accept even more than 16 in that kind of format. If you can use a format that ends up with two different flight winners, they could face off for a finals match to determine the tournament winner...
 

Grady

Verified Member
Joined
May 23, 2004
Messages
491
From
Columbia, SC
Chris:
It's an honor for you to ask us. This year I'm not working at the Open, other than playing, so schedule permitting, we'll be glad to have dinner with the group. Just let us know time, etc.
 

jrhendy

Verified Member
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
5,717
From
Placerville, CA
SactownTom said:
We are planning an event next year that I would like your opinions.
We are still fine tuning the details.

First it will be One Pocket.
Format:
Round Robin (everyone will play 15 matches)
Race to 20 balls made
Winner of the tournament will be based on total balls made.

When a rack is completed (say the score is 9-6) the person making the last ball will get the break.

Play stops when one of the opponents makes 20 balls in their pocket.
Tournament is based on "balls made" rather than Won-Loss records.

Friday evening start, play over the weekend, ending Sunday nite.
16 players MAX. $75 per player.
$1,000 added

We have 8 tournament tables in our tournamet room, that's why we decided to have 16 players, we can do this with less players.

16x $75 = $1200 + $1,000 = $2,200 total purse.

Pay 4 places: 1st $1,000 2nd $600 3rd $400 4th $200

Tom, 3 cushion billiard tournaments have used brackets or flights for years. I'm sure I could get you some info on a tournament chart. You could have more players, a bigger prize fund, and the top finishers in each bracket in the finals. There is a little luck involved in the draw if most of the best players are in one bracket, but we always have that in any tournament. Let me know if you want some help.
__________________
 

SactownTom

Moderator
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
813
From
Sacramento CA
thanks John,

Sure could use some help. I know how to do the Round Robin brackets and also do "flights".
One of the other ideas that I've been playing with is a 'seeded' RR with two or even more RR brackets.
Still plenty of time to work on this, I want to have this tournament about a month before next year's Summer Jamboree.


jrhendy said:
Tom, 3 cushion billiard tournaments have used brackets or flights for years. I'm sure I could get you some info on a tournament chart. You could have more players, a bigger prize fund, and the top finishers in each bracket in the finals. There is a little luck involved in the draw if most of the best players are in one bracket, but we always have that in any tournament. Let me know if you want some help.
__________________
 

Chris Cass

Verified Member
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
48
Hi Grady,

It's my honor sir. You've just made my day. I'm wanting to say something to them but I'd rather have the shock effect. You have fans that you probably don't know about. Unfortunatly, my wife and son won't be with me this time but I promise you'll both have a goodtime. Excellent food and warm wishes waiting. Thank you Grady,

Chris (Cass) Aiardo~~the Cassman
 

One Pocket Ghost

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
9,711
From
Ghosttown
NH Steve said:
Tom, how about starting with 16 players -- or maybe even more -- but breaking the field down into 2 or 4 flights to start? You could set it up so that to 'make the cut' for the second round, players would have to reach a certain total ball count. That would weed out some of the weaker players :) -- leaving only players that have a genuine chance to win at that point. (Which might avoid the possibility of collusion to pad ball count in games that would be meaningless to a player with a very poor record, but that could mean alot to a player still in contention -- not that that would ever happen in One Pocket :) ) You might be able to accept even more than 16 in that kind of format. If you can use a format that ends up with two different flight winners, they could face off for a finals match to determine the tournament winner...


Unfortunately, i think that Steve is on the mark with his concern re. collusion between players. This has always been a potential problem when round robin tournaments are run, and over the years in tournaments that i've watched and/or played in, i have seen blatant collusion of this type happen more than once. So, if possible, as Steve suggests, i would try to devise a format whereby this type of collusion/dumping could not happen.
 

SactownTom

Moderator
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
813
From
Sacramento CA
You are correct. There is always a chance for some 'business' to take place between players.

To aviod this, especially when you know, or at least have a good idea, the players, early round scheduling is necessary with these types of players. Schedule them to play each other when they would have the most difficulty figuring how much to 'adjust'.

The less they (the 'business' players) know how to predict the outcome, the less impact they can have.

Collusion or Business (what I like to call it) can happen in any tournament format. It's easier in some formats than others. Dumping in Double or Single Elimination tournament is really much easier. Plus, if there is a calcutta, there is much more cash involved.

Savers and Jelly rolls have been a part of this 'business' for as long as I can remember.

One Pocket Ghost said:
Unfortunately, i think that Steve is on the mark with his concern re. collusion between players. This has always been a potential problem when round robin tournaments are run, and over the years in tournaments that i've watched and/or played in, i have seen blatant collusion of this type happen more than once. So, if possible, as Steve suggests, i would try to devise a format whereby this type of collusion/dumping could not happen.
 

misterpoole

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2004
Messages
11
From
ok
another tournament idea

another tournament idea

At Magoo's in Tulsa we have a one pocket tournament that takes about a month to complete...The format is the normal double elimination but the opponents decide when they want to play..The first two rounds are a race to 3 and then the rest of the rounds are race to 4. Its handicapped, $20 entry with 32 entries.
 

SactownTom

Moderator
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
813
From
Sacramento CA
misterpoole said:
At Magoo's in Tulsa we have a one pocket tournament that takes about a month to complete...The format is the normal double elimination but the opponents decide when they want to play..The first two rounds are a race to 3 and then the rest of the rounds are race to 4. Its handicapped, $20 entry with 32 entries.

Thanks for the suggestion. I ran a 14.1 tournament almost the same way. 16 players $50 entry, paid half the field. Round robin, ball count only for determining the winner and the other 7 places. It took 8 weeks.
 

ajrack

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
26
From
Vancouver USA
Brackets

Brackets

I have run many tourneys/ dbl elim-sngl elim- rnd rbn- brckts/...my personal favorite is the following:

*an example* >... put all the players ...with a blind draw...into brackets of 7...each player plays all of the other 6 .. one set/match each...the bracket winners go into the finals and the players with the best won/loss records fill the finals chart...bracket winners to every other game and their first match will be against the won/loss players...

===98 players equal 14 brackets of 7...18 players from the won/loss fill the field and a single elimination finals chart...
With this format, I never have a time problem and it is very hard for players to dump or figure out all the playoff positions.
If I have more than just one tourney, I use a point system similar to the World's Snooker point system...for extra payoffs or positions in a grand final event.
What do you think?
 
Last edited:

SactownTom

Moderator
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
813
From
Sacramento CA
ajrack said:
What do you think?

I like the idea, do you have any examples of your bracket breakdowns?
Did you seed any players? Or was it all random?

Thanks for the idea... always looking for something outside the box... problem is, not sure what box :rolleyes:
 

ajrack

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
26
From
Vancouver USA
more info

more info

SactownTom said:
I like the idea, do you have any examples of your bracket breakdowns?
Did you seed any players? Or was it all random?

Thanks for the idea... always looking for something outside the box... problem is, not sure what box :rolleyes:

I have a bit of info...if you would like me to "SNAIL MAIL" it...contact...
ajrack@yahoo.com
 
Top