foul ruling

petie

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If the CB were to be deemed "driven off the table" (by virtue of its being saved that fate only by having been deflected off a piece of chalk), then the CB would be played BIH in the Kitchen.

If the CB rolled onto the rail, and back onto the surface without contacting a piece of chalk (or any other foreign object), then it wouldn't be any kind of foul at all, so the CB would obviously play from where it came to rest.

This is where it gets tricky. If the CB clipped the chalk, but it was deemed that the chalk contact would NOT have saved the ball from rolling off the table entirely, then it would just be considered a regular foul, because the CB contacted a foreign object. In that case the CB would play from it's position, and the offending player would owe a ball.

Most of us will play pool for our entire lives without ever seeing this particular situation come up. But at least there is a rule to cover it, especially since there are several hairs to be split...:D

Doc

I'm glad there are guys like you and Steve who keep track of this stuff. In my opinion a lot of the rules that are creeping into our game are now coming from 'amateurs' and are too nitty for real pool. The rules concerning OB sewn to CB come to mind. Forever in tournament pool going way back, you could always shoot through the OB even if you weren't sewed but very close as long as you did it with one continuous stroke. Now they have a bunch of nitty rules saying you have to shoot away and this gets particularly reduculous if you were playing 9 ball and you were sewed to the lowest numbered object ball.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Some thoughts:

Some responders split their opinion depending upon whether it was the game winning ball or not. I do not understand.

Thanks:

VTS,

I differentiated between game ball or not game ball but the rules on this site say that the rule applies to any object ball pocketed in your opponents pocket. I was going by experience even though I did look up the rules on another site. I believe I was wrong as to how the rule is played today as it applies to balls pocketed in your opponents pocket. This doesn't change the ruling in your original post though, you lose the game. Going by this rule as it applies to your other scenario about an object ball flying off the table but making a ball in your pocket in the process I guess the ball would stay in the pocket under this rule also.

onepocket.org. said:
6.2 Any scratch or foul results in the end of the shooter’s inning, as well as a standard one ball penalty. All balls pocketed in the shooter’s pocket as a result of a stroke that includes a foul do not count for the shooting player and are to be immediately spotted, along with the standard one ball penalty. Also, any balls pocketed in the opponent’s pocket on a stroke that ends in either a pocket scratch or with the cue ball off the table are not to be counted for the opponent, and are to be immediately spotted. However, on a stroke when any other foul is committed (such as a push shot, double-hit or illegal ball contact), any balls scored into the opponent’s pocket are to stay down and be counted for the opponent.

It doesn't matter if it's game ball or not, there are only two accepted methods for fouling and spotting up an opponents ball, no matter which ball it is. I've seen this played in other ways when it wasn't game ball and I was wrong under the current rules.

Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

Dennis
 

wgcp

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long beach, mississippi
Dennis

Dennis

Just to clarify for those rednecks down south... the ball stays in the pocket which ends this game...

Bille

PS just a little slow on the rules sometimes....
 

SJDinPHX

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VTS,

It doesn't matter if it's game ball or not, there are only two accepted methods for fouling and spotting up an opponents ball, no matter which ball it is. I've seen this played in other ways when it wasn't game ball and I was wrong under the current rules..Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.<--What a shock ! all you've ever caused is confusion, chaos, and pandemoniam....Unlike moi, who is always "Swayve and Deboner" !..:rolleyes:

Dennis

Denise,

This does not come as a huge surprise, as you are usually WRONG about almost EVERYTHING !.:rolleyes:..But, in your defense, the thing that keeps baffling me is this...During all my (and your) playing days, there was a pretty good understanding of what the rules of one pocket, and most other games consisted of, at least among all the players 'above banger status' ! ...There were very few things to get straight before the coin flip, (i.e, 3 fouls loss of game, cue ball fouls only, and stuff like that)...We did not waste our time, talking about situations, like are being discussed here.. Why are we even talking about something, that 'may' occur ONCE every millenium..:confused:...I mean, even the PGA, does not have a clear ruling, on stuff like, "what if a spotted Owl, with disentary, takes a crap on your ball ? Would you be allowed to "clean and place"..?..Would it be a different ruling, if it were a hungover Duck, hurling chunks of Mad Cow beef, and Yukon Jack ?... I mean, c'mon.... Puhleeeeeeze !!!!.. :rolleyes:

It is starting to look to me, like the "new rule makers" are tailoring their rules, to cover ALL possible situations, just to throw the old rules under the bus..One must wonder, whether these 'new rule makers', are just average player's, who have NEVER been in top level, heat of battle, situations...Perfect example..."Texas Express"...Which almost killed 9 Ball..(see Buddy Hall's opinion on that !) :eek:

Another brilliant "rule change", was "you must be frozen to the object ball, in order to shoot directly into the ball..Thats a fairly new rule..We had always been allowed to follow through, even an unfrozen ball, with a normal stroke, than somehow, even that got changed too,.. "the cuestick must be at a 45 degree angle"...and then that was abolished altogether..(WITHOUT the approval of the best authority on the subject...Grady Matthews..!) :eek:...you are right on Petie, (post #21)

My only question is..Who are these "new rule maker's", who seem to think Buddy or Grady are full of ca-ca, and "THEY"should be able to adjust the rules to their liking'..?... I fully expect them, to soon ressurrect the old YMCA rule..."If the cue ball winds up frozen on the rail, the incoming player, shall be allowed to move it, 'one cue-butt' distance away from the rail".. But I'm sure they'll change it to "3.0025 inches..away from the rail"...just to be contrary. .;)

I thought that was a great rule, shortly after I quit the YMCA, (at, like about 13).. and started playing guy's like Jersey Red..;) Not trying to be confrontational...I would just like to know the history of ALL the new authorities, who are blessing us with, screwing up OUR game, rule-wise ?..:cool:

Old Shool Duck <---Will still bet I can beat most of 'em..:D
 
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Skin

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Well, Dick, this is one of the guys who claims responsibity for the Texas Express rules. He (posts as randyg on AZB) lists a couple others as co-conspiartors. ;) Although, my local cue guy, who shoots pretty straight and played on the tour for a while (also was on two USA Olympic pistol shooting teams) claims he had input into the rules, also. He says they were intended to speed the game up :eek:. So now you know...:)

http://www.poolschool.info/Bio.htm

Skin
 
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NH Steve

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New Hampshire
Well, Dick, this is one of the guys who claims responsibity for the Texas Express rules. He (posts as randyg on AZB) lists a couple others as co-conspiartors. ;) Although, my local cue guy, who shoots pretty straight and played on the tour for a while (also was on two USA Olympic pistol shooting teams) claims he had input into the rules, also. He says they were intended to speed the game up :eek:. So now you know...:)

http://www.poolschool.info/Bio.htm

Skin
George Jansco first came up with cue ball anywhere on the table after a foul. He eliminated the push out and instituted the ball in hand anywhere to... speed up the game -- they just didn't call it Texas Express :D:D:D
 

Skin

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George Jansco first came up with cue ball anywhere on the table after a foul. He eliminated the push out and instituted the ball in hand anywhere to... speed up the game -- they just didn't call it Texas Express :D:D:D

Didn't know that, Steve. But still, I prefer the old roll out rules. Fortunately where I am there are still some guys who came up playing that way and if I want a game with those rules I can get one. The youngsters, they think you're trying to pull a fast one on them. :D

Skin
 

NH Steve

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Didn't know that, Steve. But still, I prefer the old roll out rules. Fortunately where I am there are still some guys who came up playing that way and if I want a game with those rules I can get one. The youngsters, they think you're trying to pull a fast one on them. :D

Skin
Which of course you are, right? :D
 

lll

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vero beach fl
Didn't know that, Steve. But still, I prefer the old roll out rules. Fortunately where I am there are still some guys who came up playing that way and if I want a game with those rules I can get one. The youngsters, they think you're trying to pull a fast one on them. :D

Skin
especially since you want them to shoot a spot shot on the 9 when the situation calls for it....;).....:)
 

SJDinPHX

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George Jansco first came up with cue ball anywhere on the table after a foul. He eliminated the push out and instituted the ball in hand anywhere to... speed up the game -- they just didn't call it Texas Express :D:D:D

I did not know that Jansco was first, Steve...But I am sure both George, and Skin's guy's, BOTH did so with the intention of "speeding up the game" for TV, as fan interest was always good with 9 ball...I would hate to see anyone try do that, (i.e., bastardize One Pocket,) for that purpose..Wouldn't you ?... We have the best game on a pool table, for a tough, competitive, thinking mans, game. Like we've all said Chess/Checkers...Let 'em fool around with 'Bonus Ball' or 10 ball, or 8 ball, to make it TV acceptable to the masses...IMO..The "Big Boy's" will still be playing One Pocket, for the big $$$$$ FOREVER !..

PS..If not, maybe you should consider gloming onto "BONER BALL.ORG" for a domain name..(JK) :D :D :D
 
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tylerdurden

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Oct 1, 2011
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Denise,

This does not come as a huge surprise, as you are usually WRONG about almost EVERYTHING !.:rolleyes:..But, in your defense, the thing that keeps baffling me is this...During all my (and your) playing days, there was a pretty good understanding of what the rules of one pocket, and most other games consisted of, at least among all the players 'above banger status' ! ...There were very few things to get straight before the coin flip, (i.e, 3 fouls loss of game, cue ball fouls only, and stuff like that)...We did not waste our time, talking about situations, like are being discussed here.. Why are we even talking about something, that 'may' occur ONCE every millenium..:confused:...I mean, even the PGA, does not have a clear ruling, on stuff like, "what if a spotted Owl, with disentary, takes a crap on your ball ? Would you be allowed to "clean and place"..?..Would it be a different ruling, if it were a hungover Duck, hurling chunks of Mad Cow beef, and Yukon Jack ?... I mean, c'mon.... Puhleeeeeeze !!!!.. :rolleyes:

It is starting to look to me, like the "new rule makers" are tailoring their rules, to cover ALL possible situations, just to throw the old rules under the bus..One must wonder, whether these 'new rule makers', are just average player's, who have NEVER been in top level, heat of battle, situations...Perfect example..."Texas Express"...Which almost killed 9 Ball..(see Buddy Hall's opinion on that !) :eek:

Another brilliant "rule change", was "you must be frozen to the object ball, in order to shoot directly into the ball..Thats a fairly new rule..We had always been allowed to follow through, even an unfrozen ball, with a normal stroke, than somehow, even that got changed too,.. "the cuestick must be at a 45 degree angle"...and then that was abolished altogether..(WITHOUT the approval of the best authority on the subject...Grady Matthews..!) :eek:...you are right on Petie, (post #21)

My only question is..Who are these "new rule maker's", who seem to think Buddy or Grady are full of ca-ca, and "THEY"should be able to adjust the rules to their liking'..?... I fully expect them, to soon ressurrect the old YMCA rule..."If the cue ball winds up frozen on the rail, the incoming player, shall be allowed to move it, 'one cue-butt' distance away from the rail".. But I'm sure they'll change it to "3.0025 inches..away from the rail"...just to be contrary. .;)

I thought that was a great rule, shortly after I quit the YMCA, (at, like about 13).. and started playing guy's like Jersey Red..;) Not trying to be confrontational...I would just like to know the history of ALL the new authorities, who are blessing us with, screwing up OUR game, rule-wise ?..:cool:

Old Shool Duck <---Will still bet I can beat most of 'em..:D

So so sorry if I missed it Duck, what would you have ruled in this spot with the cb hitting the chalk and coming back on the table?? PS, make is a short answer please :)
 

Jimmy B

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It would have to be a loss for the shooter, if the ball came back on the table after a failed intentional table jump. Otherwise what's next? Will they say a tiny granule of chalk caused it to come back on? Then will someone say that Efren laid the chalk on the table upside down and the chalk dust caused it to slide back on?? Come on. The shooter can never benefit from such shit. What if there's a pile of powder dumped on the rail like in this money game I just remembered?? Hell I thought Lindsey Lohan was having a pool party for a moment. Could you fade this chaos?? I agree with The Superduck...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc14fGCe2k8&feature=g-hist
 

KindlyOleUncleDave

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Ramble ramble bamble

Ramble ramble bamble

Personally I would have to argue with loss of game. The cue ball did not leave the defined table surface in such a manner as to be a foul. Just as with a table light being an accoutrement to the table to be legally bounced off of, so would I consider the chalk on the rail.

Many years ago I lived in the Land of the Nits in the foothills of California where and when it became de riguere in the minds of the masses to "call the ball and pocket as well as all rails, caroms, kisses and combinations"; this all in the interest of 'playing like the big guys on TV'. My suggestion that the fantasy could be elevated by a wager of a double per game met with derision ... I was sullying the sport they all loved. During the same period in Bar Box Hell I would start 'sierra' over rubs going down the long rail and the ob then contacting the end rail before dropping in ... .piss-ants..... "Ya didn't call the bank!!!"

And then there was the "ball cannot leave the bed of the table" rule to estop those sufficiently skilled to jump a ball. On numerous occasions, to a not so rapt crowd, I would take two paper match sticks placed end to end and roll a cue ball over them; LO! By magic they were disturbed. I would then place them touching again take the cue-ball back 4 or 5 inches and stroke it forward with good pace and only a slight butt elevation (maybe a half inch). No disturbance in the Force! They just would not accept that the cue-ball left the felt on most of their shots.

Furthermore, I seem to recall from somewhere ....maybe circa1900 or so 18.1 balk line rules, that, with frozen balls, one must shoot away from the frozen one. Of course Grady is the only then living human I knew of who could claim to push through a pair of balls NOT frozen without fouling.

But I ramble ..... ask me about anything ... I have a firm grasp .... or at least think I do .... that is half the battle.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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It is starting to look to me, like the "new rule makers" are tailoring their rules, to cover ALL possible situations

You're absolutely right. Those dirty, stinkin', lowlife SOB's were so slick I hadn't even noticed. The nerve of those guys.

Cowboy "watching carefully from now on" Dennis
 

petie

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Citrus Springs, FL
Personally I would have to argue with loss of game. The cue ball did not leave the defined table surface in such a manner as to be a foul. Just as with a table light being an accoutrement to the table to be legally bounced off of, so would I consider the chalk on the rail.

Many years ago I lived in the Land of the Nits in the foothills of California where and when it became de riguere in the minds of the masses to "call the ball and pocket as well as all rails, caroms, kisses and combinations"; this all in the interest of 'playing like the big guys on TV'. My suggestion that the fantasy could be elevated by a wager of a double per game met with derision ... I was sullying the sport they all loved. During the same period in Bar Box Hell I would start 'sierra' over rubs going down the long rail and the ob then contacting the end rail before dropping in ... .piss-ants..... "Ya didn't call the bank!!!"

And then there was the "ball cannot leave the bed of the table" rule to estop those sufficiently skilled to jump a ball. On numerous occasions, to a not so rapt crowd, I would take two paper match sticks placed end to end and roll a cue ball over them; LO! By magic they were disturbed. I would then place them touching again take the cue-ball back 4 or 5 inches and stroke it forward with good pace and only a slight butt elevation (maybe a half inch). No disturbance in the Force! They just would not accept that the cue-ball left the felt on most of their shots.

Furthermore, I seem to recall from somewhere ....maybe circa1900 or so 18.1 balk line rules, that, with frozen balls, one must shoot away from the frozen one. Of course Grady is the only then living human I knew of who could claim to push through a pair of balls NOT frozen without fouling.

But I ramble ..... ask me about anything ... I have a firm grasp .... or at least think I do .... that is half the battle.

This was always the rule: You had to shoot away from a frozen object ball in Billiards but you could shoot through it in pool. When the league players started making the rules, it went to hell in a hand basket.
 

victhestick2

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VTS,

I



It doesn't matter if it's game ball or not, there are only two accepted methods for fouling and spotting up an opponents ball, no matter which ball it is. I've seen this played in other ways when it wasn't game ball and I was wrong under the current rules.

Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

Originally Posted by onepocket.org.
6.2 Any scratch or foul results in the end of the shooter’s inning, as well as a standard one ball penalty. All balls pocketed in the shooter’s pocket as a result of a stroke that includes a foul do not count for the shooting player and are to be immediately spotted, along with the standard one ball penalty. Also, any balls pocketed in the opponent’s pocket on a stroke that ends in either a pocket scratch or with the cue ball off the table are not to be counted for the opponent, and are to be immediately spotted. However, on a stroke when any other foul is committed (such as a push shot, double-hit or illegal ball contact), any balls scored into the opponent’s pocket are to stay down and be counted for the opponent.

This makes perfectly good sense to me. The shooter cannot benefit except for the two acceptable ways of fouling. Thank you Dennis.
 

SJDinPHX

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So so sorry if I missed it Duck, what would you have ruled in this spot with the cb hitting the chalk and coming back on the table?? PS, make is a short answer please :)

Yes TD..Short answer, just for you !....A; If you can't come to an agreement, and there is no referee...flip a Goddamn coin, and get on with the f-ing game..Or...Option B...Take the ruling of the nearest 'drunk railbug' !..Same thing..Pick one !..:frus

PS..What about the Owl or the Duck, with the sh*t's..(short answer)...Please don't tell me, my analogy 'sailed right over your head' ? :D

Sensible Duck
 
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SJDinPHX

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This was always the rule: You had to shoot away from a frozen object ball in Billiards but you could shoot through it in pool. When the league players started making the rules, it went to hell in a hand basket.

Total agreement Petie, thats the point I've been trying to make all along ! :cool:...Amazing to see, how many "League Players" have
infiltrated 'onepocket.org'..:frus
 

tylerdurden

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Yes TD..Short answer, just for you !....A; If you can't come to an agreement, and there is no referee...flip a Goddamn coin, and get on with the f-ing game..Or...Option B...Take the ruling of the nearest 'drunk railbug' !..Same thing..Pick one !..:frus

PS..What about the Owl or the Duck, with the sh*t's..(short answer)...Please don't tell me, my analogy 'sailed right over your head' ? :D

Sensible Duck

Well, I was asking if you were the TD (referee). Anyway, I see your point: just play pool.
 
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