Killer instinct

wincardona · Jan 11, 2016

Yes it's a "killer instinct" that i'm actually talking about, not an attitude.:sorry

How important is it to have a killer instinct?
How would you rate the top 10 one pocket players in the world in terms of having a "killer instinct" 1 to 10, 10 being the highest.

Reyes (7)
Frost (8)
Pagulayan (8)
Chohan (6)
Orcullo (9)
J. Hall (8)
D. Smith (8)
VanBoening (9)
J. Jones (10)
S.Daulton (9)
forgot Bergman and Roberts, from what I have seen they both have at least a 9

The players that come to mind that have the strongest killer instincts are.

Buddy Hall (10)
Nick Varner (10)
Richie Florence (10)
Jose Parica (10)
Mike Sigel (10)
Jim Rempe (10)
Steve Mizerak (10)
Allen Hopkins (10)
Darren Appleton (10)

I'm sure there are more can you name them? What is your rating?

Jeff Sparks (10)

baby huey · Jan 11, 2016

When it comes to one pocket here are my top "killers."

Alex
Efren
Scott
Shannon
Tony
Josh

Jeff sparks · Jan 11, 2016

wincardona said:
Yes it's a "killer instinct" that i'm actually talking about, not an attitude.:sorry

How important is it to have a killer instinct?
How would you rate the top 10 one pocket players in the world in terms of having a "killer instinct" 1 to 10, 10 being the highest.

Reyes (7)
Frost (8)
Pagulayan (8)
Chohan (6)
Orcullo (9)
J. Hall (8)
D. Smith (8)
VanBoening (9)
J. Jones (10)
S.Daulton (9)
forgot Bergman and Roberts, from what I have seen they both have at least a 9

The players that come to mind that have the strongest killer instincts are.

Buddy Hall (10)
Nick Varner (10)
Richie Florence (10)
Jose Parica (10)
Mike Sigel (10)
Jim Rempe (10)
Steve Mizerak (10)
Allen Hopkins (10)
Darren Appleton (10)

I'm sure there are more can you name them? What is your rating?

Jeff Sparks (10)

Hippie Jimmie Reid was a 12 in his day, none IMO had the killer instinct that Jimmie possessed. He wasn't the best player around, but you had to drive a wooden stake through his heart and step on his freaking neck to beat him, he just would not give up!

You can't feel sorry for your opponent, you gonna break his spirit before he breaks yours, and possessing that pure killer instinct is what determines the winner when the match could go either way, at least that's how it used to be when we played by the game or long ahead matches. Not so much so now I guess because most gambling done is short races and the best player doesn't have to win.

Anyway, killer instinct IMO is a combination of passion for the game, confidence, heart, determination, and fearlessness. You gotta believe in your ability to beat whoever is holding the other cue.

Lassiter was a killer

Mosconi didn't want to just beat you, he wanted to embarrass you, kill you!

Taylor was a kind killer

Little known, "Tall Jimmie" might have been the deadliest killer of them all!!

Modern day, best guess

Alex
JJ
Tony
Smith

For the cash, right now I'd say Tony.

LSJohn · Jan 11, 2016

My only concern about Roberts -- this is not a criticism; I like him a lot both personally and as a player -- but I think he cares a lot about his image. Nothing wrong with that (it can make some people behave a lot better) but I wonder whether that could get in the way at times.

(Some people care a LOT about their images, play VERY well, but behave badly anyway... they just can't help themselves... no names

)

1pwannabe · Jan 11, 2016

Marshall "Squirrel" Carpenter (11)

He's the most tenacious person I've ever been around, his loathing of losing and his will to win is off the charts. He'll be 88 this year and he still brings it home.

Mkbtank · Jan 11, 2016

Killer instinct

1pwannabe said:
Marshall "Squirrel" Carpenter (11)

He's the most tenacious person I've ever been around, his loathing of losing and his will to win is off the charts. He'll be 88 this year and he still brings it home.

Wow. That's awesome. He was at the Derby last year and I met him. Seemed very nice. (Probably because we weren't in action

)

I gamble a local guy here who is 69 and I would call him an 11. He treats every game like its his family's last meal. You now if you are stepping into the ring with him, you are in for a battle!

Island Drive · Jan 11, 2016

wincardona said:
Yes it's a "killer instinct" that i'm actually talking about, not an attitude.:sorry

How important is it to have a killer instinct?
How would you rate the top 10 one pocket players in the world in terms of having a "killer instinct" 1 to 10, 10 being the highest.

Reyes (7)
Frost (8)
Pagulayan (8)
Chohan (6)
Orcullo (9)
J. Hall (8)
D. Smith (8)
VanBoening (9)
J. Jones (10)
S.Daulton (9)
forgot Bergman and Roberts, from what I have seen they both have at least a 9

The players that come to mind that have the strongest killer instincts are.

Buddy Hall (10)
Nick Varner (10)
Richie Florence (10)
Jose Parica (10)
Mike Sigel (10)
Jim Rempe (10)
Steve Mizerak (10)
Allen Hopkins (10)
Darren Appleton (10)

I'm sure there are more can you name them? What is your rating?

Jeff Sparks (10)

Jeff I'm with ya on Rempe ''tough turtle to drown'' and your correct, he never let up EVER. Varner, could handle anyone, and proved it by playing Efren in the Phillipines and beating em. BI only heard about him thru life and saw em play a few times, but he seemed to lock it down. The greats from the depression era had that, like Efren and especially as the money went UP. Fatty up till the early fifties, had that too when the money was on the light. Herman Bullard comes to mind as does Coy Lee Nicholson on the box. Buddy of course in his prime, and Many from Janscos' era.

Billy Jackets · Jan 11, 2016

Island Drive said:
Jeff I'm with ya on Rempe ''tough turtle to drown'' and your correct, he never let up EVER. Varner, could handle anyone, and proved it by playing Efren in the Phillipines and beating em. BI only heard about him thru life and saw em play a few times, but he seemed to lock it down. The greats from the depression era had that, like Efren and especially as the money went UP. Fatty up till the early fifties, had that too when the money was on the light. Herman Bullard comes to mind as does Coy Lee Nicholson on the box. Buddy of course in his prime, and Many from Janscos' era.

Did they call Herman, Fat Herman?
I keep trying to remember a guy who was supposed to be a a great bank pool player.
They either called him Fat Herman or Fat Hammond?
Anyone know who he was?
This was 50 years ago or more.

Tom Wirth · Jan 12, 2016

When we talk about killer instinct, what are we really talking about? Never giving up? Putting your all into winning with every shot regardless of the score? Not quitting, even when we've lost several games, and everything we touch seems to turn sour while all that our opponent does comes out smelling like a rose? I should add, never feeling sorry for your opponent and wanting to beat them every game, all day long until you've won everything there is to win, his money, his car, his house, his wife. Is it a combination of all these things and more? So how far are any of these guys we're talking about willing to take it?

I think there are countless players out there that have these attributes but most do not have the skills to back them up. I think that is why Dr. Bill revised his question from attitude to instinct, but the two are very close to being the same thing. I think Jeff eluded to this earlier.

Nick Varner is a great example of a player who possesses the exceptional skills, the attitude to give it his all, all the time, and the instincts to know he can overcome the adversity he is facing. There are certainly others with these attributes. Many have been listed here. These are household names to most of us, but there are many others who we may have never heard of. Players who stay in their sphere and rarely explore outside of that arena.

These players too have that killer instinct. They do all the things necessary to win against every player they pit themselves against. They never give up regardless of the adversity. They play to win every game and demolish their opponent until they summit, and throw in the towel. Do these players with lesser skills than guys like Nick deserve any less credit for their tenacity?

As far as who the top ten players of all time are concerned. I would add Don Willis to the mix.

Tom

1pwannabe · Jan 12, 2016

Does "killer" imply success with gambling/hustling more than tournament play? Both? Some people gamble extremely well while others don't. European players are fantastic tournament players but aren't known for gambling well, so does that imply they aren't "killer enough?"

Tom Wirth said:
When we talk about killer instinct, what are we really talking about? Never giving up? Putting your all into winning with every shot regardless of the score? Not quitting, even when we've lost several games, and everything we touch seems to turn sour while all that our opponent does comes out smelling like a rose? Is it a combination of all these things and more?

I think there are countless players out there that have these attributes but most do not have the skills to back them up. I think that is why Dr. Bill revised his question from attitude to instinct, but the two are very close to being the same thing. I think Jeff eluded to this earlier.

Nick Varner is a great example of a player who possesses the exceptional skills, the attitude to give it his all, all the time, and the instincts to know he can overcome the adversity he is facing. There are certainly others with these attributes. Many have been listed here. These are household names to most of us, but there are many others who we may have never heard of. Players who stay in their sphere and rarely explore outside of that arena.

These players too have that killer instinct. They do all the things necessary to win against every player they pit themselves against. They never give up regardless of the adversity. They play to win every game and demolish their opponent until they summit, and throw in the towel. Do these players with lesser skills than guys like Nick deserve any less credit for their tenacity?

As far as who the top ten players of all time are concerned. I would add Don Willis to the mix.

Tom

Island Drive · Jan 12, 2016

Because of all the sports I've played and my background, I learned this. When I was broke and playing to eat, the clarity of the situation was much different than when I was flush. When you only have one barrel, and your either gonna eat or run, my mind changed dramatically. Didn't happen that often, but during my broke dick college years...hand ta mouth days it was a great teacher. It also gave me a great ability to handicap games that I Always won. It's the reason the great players from the depression era, and the Pinoys had a great edge on the rest of the players on planet earth.

LSJohn · Jan 12, 2016

Tom Wirth said:
When we talk about killer instinct, what are we really talking about? Never giving up? Putting your all into winning with every shot regardless of the score? Not quitting, even when we've lost several games, and everything we touch seems to turn sour while all that our opponent does comes out smelling like a rose? I should add, never feeling sorry for your opponent and wanting to beat them every game, all day long until you've won everything there is to win, his money, his car, his house, his wife. Is it a combination of all these things and more? So how far are any of these guys we're talking about willing to take it?

I think there are countless players out there that have these attributes but most do not have the skills to back them up. I think that is why Dr. Bill revised his question from attitude to instinct, but the two are very close to being the same thing. I think Jeff eluded to this earlier.

Nick Varner is a great example of a player who possesses the exceptional skills, the attitude to give it his all, all the time, and the instincts to know he can overcome the adversity he is facing. There are certainly others with these attributes. Many have been listed here. These are household names to most of us, but there are many others who we may have never heard of. Players who stay in their sphere and rarely explore outside of that arena.

These players too have that killer instinct. They do all the things necessary to win against every player they pit themselves against. They never give up regardless of the adversity. They play to win every game and demolish their opponent until they summit, and throw in the towel. Do these players with lesser skills than guys like Nick deserve any less credit for their tenacity?

As far as who the top ten players of all time are concerned. I would add Don Willis to the mix.

Tom

Nick is my choice if he's down, but his personality makes me think his killer instinct might weaken if he were drowning someone.

androd · Jan 12, 2016

Jeff sparks said:
Little known, "Tall Jimmie" might have been the deadliest killer of them all!!

Modern day, best guess

Alex
JJ
Tony
Smith

For the cash, right now I'd say Tony.

A sidebar about Tall Jimmie, we were on the road about two years and Jimmie played everyone we ran into. His only loss was to a janitor named Cigaro in Albuquerque. They played 100 games Jimmie won 49. He was so depressed he didn't want to get out of bed the next day. We later found out Cigaro beat Fez and Jimmie Moore playing 9ball.

Some time later Jimmie had been under the weather about a month, he came into LeCue and played Grady some 9ball. They played a few hours and Jimmie quit a few games loser, he told me "If I can't beat a jerk-off like him I have no business playing pool"

He never played again.

Jeff sparks · Jan 12, 2016

androd said:
A sidebar about Tall Jimmie, we were on the road about two years and Jimmie played everyone we ran into. His only loss was to a janitor named Cigaro in Albuquerque. They played 100 games Jimmie won 49. He was so depressed he didn't want to get out of bed the next day. We later found out Cigaro beat Fez and Jimmie Moore playing 9ball.

Some time later Jimmie had been under the weather about a month, he came into LeCue and played Grady some 9ball. They played a few hours and Jimmie quit a few games loser, he told me "If I can't beat a jerk-off like him I have no business playing pool"

He never played again.

Well,
You were his road partner, who better to know him than you! You saw him play 100's of times, day in and day out and he very seldom lost, and when he did, it made him physically sick, I'd call that a pretty good testimonial as to his killer instincts/attitude!!! I know some of those were easy matches, but I'm sure Jimmie took on some very tough competition as well, I know, I was out there a couple of years myself and I took on all comers.

287 wins/ 2 losses!!! Or thereabouts. Let the killer elite who can beat that step forward and be identified!

Skin · Jan 14, 2016

There have been a lot of good thoughts on this thread. I look at killer instinct as the ability to drive the spear all the way through your man when you have him down. No let up in concentration or execution. You get him down, he doesn't get back up. No mercy.

Heart, on the other hand, is a different thing to me. That's a quality of the guy who is down, with the killer driving on him with everything he has. The guy with heart doesn't weaken and become prey. He stays strong, survives, and turns it around.

One (killer) is a predator instinct and the other (heart) is a prey instinct. A guy who comes to mind that seems to have (had) both is Chris Bartram. Not a top player, of course, but seemingly a very, very tough opponent for anybody in his echelon.

LSJohn · Jan 14, 2016

Skin said:
I look at killer instinct as the ability to drive the spear all the way through your man when you have him down. No let up in concentration or execution. You get him down, he doesn't get back up. No mercy.

Heart, on the other hand, is a different thing to me. That's a quality of the guy who is down, with the killer driving on him with everything he has. The guy with heart doesn't weaken and become prey. He stays strong, survives, and turns it around.

I consider this a perfect description of what we're talking about.

When I asked the question about being down 7-0, I was mistakenly attributing the ability to come back as killer instinct, but it's really heart, something a little different. Some guys might have both, but most have neither.

Very good, Skin.

Instead of asking the 7-0 question, I should have asked who would be most likely to maintain full concentration and burning desire to win the next game if he had just won 10 in a row.

Killer instinct

wincardona

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baby huey

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Jeff sparks

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LSJohn

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1pwannabe

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Mkbtank

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Island Drive

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Billy Jackets

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Tom Wirth

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androd

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