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  #121  
Old 06-10-2019, 12:32 PM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is online now
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Terry Hanna, personally I would like to see Reyes matchup more against our young American Guns. It is so great to watch Reyes, very special! Great venue! thanks, Whitey
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  #122  
Old 06-10-2019, 12:51 PM
Cory in dc Cory in dc is offline
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Thanks, Larry. It was great to meet you even if only briefly.

Aside from the parity of the breaks, which is surprising, what stands out to me is the disparity in long runs.

For runs of 6+ balls, Efren had 21 vs. 11 for Billy. Efren's always had an amazing ability to creatively get behind balls, especially uptable balls. It looks like this match was no exception.





Quote:
Originally Posted by lll View Post
i hope AtLarge from azb doesnt mind if i post these stats to show how close this match was
from AtLARGE
Here are some stats from the Efren Reyes vs. Billy Thorpe One-Pocket match played June 6-9, 2019 at Arena Billiards in West Monroe, Louisiana. Pay-per-view live streaming was provided by PoolActionTV.

This match was a best of 5 races to 10 games, with one race to 10 scheduled for each day. Reyes won the 1st, 3rd, and 4th races to win the match three sets to one. The commentators were Jeremy Jones and Ray Hansen.

Conditions -- The conditions for this match included:
- Diamond 9-foot table with blue Simonis 860 cloth;
- Aramith Tournament balls with a measles cue ball;
- triangle rack;
- Rack your own with alternating breaks;
- re-break if a ball is made on the break;
- cue ball fouls only;
- 3 fouls in a row is loss of game (did not happen);
- no shot clock, and
- lag for opening break each day (Reyes won the lag on Days 2 and 4, Thorpe on Days 1 and 3).

■ Match results, in games
Set 1 -- 10-8 Reyes
Set 2 -- 7-10
Set 3 -- 10-9
Set 4 -- 10-8
Total -- 37-35

■ Games won by breaker
Reyes -- 18 of 36 (50%)
Thorpe -- 17 of 36 (47%)
Total -- 35 of 72 (49%)

■ Breaks by side of table -- 71 of the 72 breaks were from the breaker's right side of the table. The exception was by Thorpe in Set 4; he lost that game and went back to his right side thereafter.

■ Games won by player who scored the first point (or had it scored for him)
Reyes -- 26 of 39 (67%)
Thorpe -- 22 of 33 (67%)
Total -- 48 of 72 (67%)

■ Scratches on the break -- 2, both by Thorpe. He won one of those games and lost the other.

■ Balls made on the break -- 1, by Reyes, causing a re-break.

■ Games in which the player had the lead at some point
Reyes -- 59 games, his 37 wins plus 22 games he lost.
Thorpe -- 56 games, his 35 wins plus 21 games he lost.

■ Ball counts by length of run -- The total ball counts resulted from the following runs and fouls. Counts are given for Reyes first, then Thorpe, then the total.
1 ball -- 65 times, 72 times, 137 times
2 balls -- 35, 28, 63
3 balls -- 15, 13, 28
4 balls -- 13, 17, 30
5 balls -- 7, 11, 18
6 balls -- 6, 4, 10
7 balls -- 8, 2, 10
8 balls -- 6, 5, 11
9 balls -- 1, 0, 1
Plus balls pocketed by opponents -- 34, 20, 54
Minus fouls -- 56, 38, 94
TOTAL ball count -- 394, 350, 744
Average game score -- 8 - 2.3

■ Distribution of run-outs to win the games. Counts are given for Reyes first, then Thorpe, then the total.
1 ball -- 16 times, 15 times, 31 times (43% of the 72 games)
2 balls -- 6, 4, 10
3 balls -- 2, 4, 6
4 balls -- 0, 1, 1
5 balls -- 1, 2, 3
6 balls -- 2, 2, 4
7 balls -- 5, 2, 7
8+ balls -- 5, 5, 10 (14%)
Average (mean) "out" run -- 3.4 balls
Average (median) "out" run -- 2 balls

■ Distribution of lengths of games
1-10 minutes -- 12 games
11-20 minutes -- 27
21-30 minutes -- 19
31-60 minutes -- 13
61+ minutes -- 1
Total -- 72

■ Match length (including racking and timeouts) -- 26 hours, 35 minutes

■ Average minutes per game -- 22.2
[Note: Sets 1, 2, and 4 averaged about 5 hours apiece (19 min./game). Set 3 went 9 hours, or 30 min./game.]
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  #123  
Old 06-10-2019, 01:20 PM
LSJohn LSJohn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory in dc View Post
Aside from the parity of the breaks, which is surprising, what stands out to me is the disparity in long runs.

For runs of 6+ balls, Efren had 21 vs. 11 for Billy. Efren's always had an amazing ability to creatively get behind balls, especially uptable balls. It looks like this match was no exception.
It's a good point, but you would have to have seen it. Many games could have gone the other way. I don't remember ever seeing a head-on-head where so many games were decided by shockingly simple mistakes... not in judgment, but in execution, mostly by missing 99% shots.

Oh, and IMO -- I bet on Efren BTW -- Efren got WAY more of the good rolls.
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  #124  
Old 06-10-2019, 02:30 PM
BRLongArm BRLongArm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keoneyo View Post
You being in the business like me am interested in one stat and that is how much does the performer actually get at the end of the night.
It is said that 2 room owners put up the $10K a man. So winner gets how much percentage of that. How much does the loser get from the winner as go home money. Do the players get transpo and rooms set up for them? Or does it come out of their pocket. Do they get part of the stream revenue. How much goes to their traveling partners.
Young guys like Thorpe get the exposure and rep. So he becomes an attraction at future events. He can use that to propel his career. Get backers and supporters. So he is in a win win situation.
Money is all relative. When you hear a star making a million it is deceptive.
10% goes to his agent. 15% goes to his manager. 5% goes to his publicist. 30% goes to Uncle Sam. Another 5% goes to his assistants, trainer, accountant, etc. You walk away with 35%. This is why a lot go broke. They spend like they got millions when theyre really not.
Im interested in someone like a road warrior like Efren and how they manage.
It started off as a $20K match but how much is the player walking away with?
Just a food for thought.
Each player gets an appearance fee from the streamer. That's guaranteed money, win or lose. Then the backers take care of the rooms, which are expenses that get reimbursed from the winnings. The net is split, usually around 60-40 to the backer. The player invests his time and makes about $3,800 plus his appearance fee, which can range from $1,000-$2,500 or higher depending on his deal. The loser gets his appearance fee, which in this case amounted to about $400-600 a day for his time. There is not a lot of money in pool, but the loser makes the equivalent of a 1st place in an average nine ball tournament. The winner pockets more than any one pocket event champion other than Derby City, Scotty Townsend or Buffalos.
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  #125  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:02 PM
AtLarge AtLarge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lll View Post
i hope AtLarge from azb doesnt mind if i post these stats to show how close this match was
from AtLARGE ...
And thank you. I just came over here to post a link, but you were ahead of me.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=495107
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  #126  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:05 PM
AtLarge AtLarge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gulfportdoc View Post
[B]Great stats, Larry. Looks like the pros have pretty much nullified the standard expectation that the breaker has a roughly 2/3rds chance of winning. In this particular contest, it was only 49%, which could now be closer to the standard among top players. ...
I posted this just a little while ago on AzB:

The breaker-won-game percentage fluctuates quite a bit from event to event.

For the streamed matches I have watched from the DCC and Southern Classic events from 2011 through 2019, the breaker-won percentage (for the games for which I have that information) varied from 41% to 84% over those 11 events! Small numbers can produce atypical results. Aggregating all 464 of those games, the breaker won 260 (56%), or about 5 wins for every 4 losses.
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  #127  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:23 PM
lll lll is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post
I posted this just a little while ago on AzB:

The breaker-won-game percentage fluctuates quite a bit from event to event.

For the streamed matches I have watched from the DCC and Southern Classic events from 2011 through 2019, the breaker-won percentage (for the games for which I have that information) varied from 41% to 84% over those 11 events! Small numbers can produce atypical results. Aggregating all 464 of those games, the breaker won 260 (56%), or about 5 wins for every 4 losses.
thanks at large
for the record in my original post i referenced that these were your statistics
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  #128  
Old 06-10-2019, 07:26 PM
LSJohn LSJohn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post
And thank you. I just came over here to post a link, but you were ahead of me.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=495107
Thanks man. I really enjoy your stats. I know it's a big job and I'm sure I'm in a large group that appreciates it.
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  #129  
Old 06-10-2019, 10:37 PM
keoneyo keoneyo is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRLongArm View Post
Each player gets an appearance fee from the streamer. That's guaranteed money, win or lose. Then the backers take care of the rooms, which are expenses that get reimbursed from the winnings. The net is split, usually around 60-40 to the backer. The player invests his time and makes about $3,800 plus his appearance fee, which can range from $1,000-$2,500 or higher depending on his deal. The loser gets his appearance fee, which in this case amounted to about $400-600 a day for his time. There is not a lot of money in pool, but the loser makes the equivalent of a 1st place in an average nine ball tournament. The winner pockets more than any one pocket event champion other than Derby City, Scotty Townsend or Buffalos.
Thank you for the insight.
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  #130  
Old 06-12-2019, 10:57 AM
vapros vapros is offline
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nobody - but Nobody - handles the cue ball like Efren
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