'68 BCA OP lag for break rule 'twister'!

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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In '68 One Pocket was the last pool game recognized out of 16 games, and was not a recognized game by BCA until '67. The entire written game rule is a mere 3/4 of a page. One Pocket being the unique game that it is, also has a unique lag rule, for there is also a pocket selection to be determined!

This is a caption from the '68 BCA One Pocket Game Rule, and pertaining to the lag:
'Option of break is determined by lag or lot, and prior to the opening shot one pocket at the foot of the table is selected by the winner of the lag as the pocket he will use, the other person or side will then use only the other pocket at the foot of the table'.

There is two parts to this statement: 1st. the winner of the lag has the option to break or relinquish it. 2nd. the winner of the lag also gets to choose which pocket they want for their scoring pocket.

Thereby, this is my take on this, and lets say the winner of the lag has chosen to have their opponent break! But with this, the breaking opponent does not have the right to choose their scoring pocket, for by rule the 'winner of the lag' maintains this right, and chooses their own preference scoring pocket.

A head twister, but makes perfect sense!

In a Jay Helfert commentating he stated; " the winner of the lag has the option to break, but you know, I have never seen the winner of the lag give the break to their opponent".

A little bit of history trivia to change the pace, and to maul over! Is the writing flawed, or is the intent as written, or is the rule just overlooked, or is it just another by-gone rule long forgot?

Back in the day I never had a rule book, just learned the rules by playing. And the intent of this rule may never have made it to the hustler world! Whitey
 

NH Steve

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In '68 One Pocket was the last pool game recognized out of 16 games, and was not a recognized game by BCA until '67. The entire written game rule is a mere 3/4 of a page. One Pocket being the unique game that it is, also has a unique lag rule, for there is also a pocket selection to be determined!

This is a caption from the '68 BCA One Pocket Game Rule, and pertaining to the lag:
'Option of break is determined by lag or lot, and prior to the opening shot one pocket at the foot of the table is selected by the winner of the lag as the pocket he will use, the other person or side will then use only the other pocket at the foot of the table'.

There is two parts to this statement: 1st. the winner of the lag has the option to break or relinquish it. 2nd. the winner of the lag also gets to choose which pocket they want for their scoring pocket.

Thereby, this is my take on this, and lets say the winner of the lag has chosen to have their opponent break! But with this, the breaking opponent does not have the right to choose their scoring pocket, for by rule the 'winner of the lag' maintains this right, and chooses their own preference scoring pocket.

A head twister, but makes perfect sense!

In a Jay Helfert commentating he stated; " the winner of the lag has the option to break, but you know, I have never seen the winner of the lag give the break to their opponent".

A little bit of history trivia to change the pace, and to maul over! Is the writing flawed, or is the intent as written, or is the rule just overlooked, or is it just another by-gone rule long forgot?

Back in the day I never had a rule book, just learned the rules by playing. And the intent of this rule may never have made it to the hustler world! Whitey
I think it's a 4th option -- the writers were probably not that familiar with One Pocket, so the rules did not that accurately reflect how the game was actually played. The earliest written rules I have found were -- simple rules that the Jansco's released for their tournament -- starting in 1961. The earliest published rules in book form, was a rule book that Fats endorsed that was the first to include One Pocket, using essentially the same rules as Jansco. One significant discrepancy in the BCA rule book for years was that the cue ball and an object ball had to hit a rail on the opening break in the BCA rules, rather than the cue ball or an object ball.
 

baby huey

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I think One Pocket rules somewhat followed 14.1 in that determining the break was optional. One interesting rule about One Pocket is that you can "Nurse" the cueball and object ball along the same rail an unlimited amount of times but in 14.1 one player can only nurse the object ball twice without shooting away from that object ball. Otherwise would be a foul. Also three consecutive fouls is loss of game but in 14.1 it's an 18 point loss with other features including a potential rebreak.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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I think One Pocket rules somewhat followed 14.1 in that determining the break was optional. One interesting rule about One Pocket is that you can "Nurse" the cueball and object ball along the same rail an unlimited amount of times but in 14.1 one player can only nurse the object ball twice without shooting away from that object ball. Otherwise would be a foul. Also three consecutive fouls is loss of game but in 14.1 it's an 18 point loss with other features including a potential rebreak.

Jerry, I am so glad you brought that 'nurse' rule up. I had some yuppie guy start that nursing on me in 9-ball, what a joke of an experience! That rule should be emplaced in all games, period! IMO it would be a great rule for One Pocket. I was watching I believe a DCC match and that happened, it took 10 minutes for the players to get out of it.

I have put this rule in my own words and call it; Frozen Object Ball 'COVERED'. Not an easy rule to write up! 'Frozen Nurse' would be a great name for it, I'll change it to that, thanks! The '68 BCA 14-1 game rule there is no name for it, it is depicted under Ball Frozen to Cushion.
Of course now it is all but a forgotten rule! How does that happen, there's got to be away to protect our American Rules!

I personally like the way the '68 lag rule is wrote up! Ok, I'll give you the break, but not the pocket, its great. Whitey
 

baby huey

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Whitey.......Just for the sake of discussion, One Pocket was originally called "Oklahoma Straight Pool." I believe I heard this around 1968. No wonder the rules differ.
 

Scrzbill

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Stop it Whitey! You’re a monster. Just when I thought there couldn’t be any more confusion in my life and you bring up this conundrum?
UGH! Oh my head aches.:lol:lol
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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I think it's a 4th option -- the writers were probably not that familiar with One Pocket, so the rules did not that accurately reflect how the game was actually played. The earliest written rules I have found were -- simple rules that the Jansco's released for their tournament -- starting in 1961. The earliest published rules in book form, was a rule book that Fats endorsed that was the first to include One Pocket, using essentially the same rules as Jansco. One significant discrepancy in the BCA rule book for years was that the cue ball and an object ball had to hit a rail on the opening break in the BCA rules, rather than the cue ball or an object ball.

As you know in this early '68 writing the rule writer was charge with limited space/page. This whole game rule writing is under 500 words. Therefore the sentence I posted has to say a lot, which it does.
Your break rule discrepancy is truly significant when you think about it, for under the BCA rule it would pretty much eliminate the unusual break of contacting a rail first and then into the rack of balls. Unless you went two rails, glancing off the side of the rack and then cb to head rail.
Thanks for this rule trivia. Whitey
 
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Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Jerry, here is how I wrote up the 'Frozen Nurse' rule. I am posting it so members know what the heck we are talking about.
Frozen Nurse;
1. Is a shot played by directing the cue ball towards an object ball that is frozen to or within one half ball width of a cushion, whereas the cue ball either stops in front of or contacts the object ball, and results in the object ball being somewhat between or directly between the cue ball and the cushion. Thereupon the following player plays a simple tap shot which results in the balls remaining relatively in the same position.
2. This repetitive scenario of simply taping the cue ball into the object ball is allowed twice by each player regardless of whether a legal shot has occurred or not. The cushion the object ball is within a half ball width of or frozen to, is not alive for the object ball after two innings by each player.
3. Therefore upon the 3rd. attempt by the player who initiated this scenario they then must cause; an object ball to contact another cushion, the cue ball to contact any cushion, or pocket an object ball, or it is a ball in hand foul for the opponent. Note: The opponent must notify the player during their inning and prior to the shot for the 3rd. attempt rule to take effect.

Not Alive; means that cushion can no longer be used to make what would otherwise be considered a legal shot. In this scenario the cushion is not alive for the object ball.

I wrote this rule to apply to One Pocket, although it could apply to all games, except 14.1 whereas the penalty is different. Currently in our OP.org rules it states an object ball can be driving to a cushion as many times as the players want. So there is no confusion on this.

I think the Frozen Nurse rule is a great rule and it is especially unfortunate that it is all but forgotten. I just have to wonder, 'in all their wisdom', as to whom and as to why they eliminated this rule. It was never a rule in any game except 14.1. In the '68 BCA rule book it is combined with the Frozen Ball Rule and takes up 3/4 of page, as much as the whole game rule of One Pocket. Whitey

What do you think Scrzbill, are you to much of a traditionalist to accept a rule like this for OP? lol !!!
 
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