Which Bank Do You Shoot First?

Just for the hell of it and because I think it was fun the last time, (and because SJD keeps calling me & I told him I'm busy), what bank would you shoot from here to RUN OUT? You both need 4 balls.

The 6 and the 9 balls are frozen.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AaTh3BVmM4CUoL4DPaL4ESDL1FbVj3GQPM3HNeM4IVdl4JMoL3KUQt3LNld3MXeX1NHIS3OTBM4PALW@[/CUETABLE]

The 11-ball cross-side is a hanger for bank players. I'm sure they'd start with this shot. The next shot would probably be either the 13 or 6 cross-side. A couple of those other balls are pretty tricky banks. They'd probably be left for last...

Doc

Cowboy Dennis said:

Just for the hell of it and because I think it was fun the last time, (and because SJD keeps calling me & I told him I'm busy), what bank would you shoot from here to RUN OUT? You both need 4 balls.

The 6 and the 9 balls are frozen.

[cuetable]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AaTh3BVmM4CUoL4DPaL4ESDL1FbVj3GQPM3HNeM4IVdl4JMoL3KUQt3LNld3MXeX1NHIS3OTBM4PALW@[/cuetable]

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I'd probably start with banking the 13 with left hand english and then probably shoot the 11 cross side next, with the 6,1 and 14 being my next choices. The 6 has 2 cross-corner shots unless you get the right angle for the side. I don't like banking frozen balls in the side unless you get real good on it. They go much better in the corners with some speed.

Problem is for me, I tend to shoot most banks with speed or english and therefore don't get very perfect on my shape That's why I'll always be a hack.

Cowboy Dennis said:

Just for the hell of it and because I think it was fun the last time, (and because SJD keeps calling me & I told him I'm busy), what bank would you shoot from here to RUN OUT? You both need 4 balls.

The 6 and the 9 balls are frozen.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AaTh3BVmM4CUoL4DPaL4ESDL1FbVj3GQPM3HNeM4IVdl4JMoL3KUQt3LNld3MXeX1NHIS3OTBM4PALW@[/CUETABLE]

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14 straight back,1 cross corner,11 cross side, 6 cross corner or 13 cross side

It'll be a guess

It'll be a guess

Cowboy Dennis said:

Just for the hell of it and because I think it was fun the last time, (and because SJD keeps calling me & I told him I'm busy), what bank would you shoot from here to RUN OUT? You both need 4 balls.

The 6 and the 9 balls are frozen.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AaTh3BVmM4CUoL4DPaL4ESDL1FbVj3GQPM3HNeM4IVdl4JMoL3KUQt3LNld3MXeX1NHIS3OTBM4PALW@[/CUETABLE]

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There is no real set way to bank out in the REAL WORLD. On the haha, WEI table, straight back 14, cross corner 1, roll over to the slight passover cross side 11, drift a foot to the cut bank cross side 6.
Playing in a match where the stakes are anything higher than a Pepsi, a bank player will always shoot the 11. Two main reasons: 1. It's the easiest bank to make, based on cut angle, angle to pocket, and closeness to q ball. 2. You always like to shoot off yourself, the most dangerous, makeable ball. The 11 is bankable into the most pockets, due to the fact that most of the other balls are either frozen or close to the rail. A valuable piece of bank strategy that is unfortunately, not utilized near enough.
Needing only one ball, I would pass-bank the 11, easy, landing softly on the 1 and leaving zilch if I missed. Needing any amount more than one, I would cross side the 11 with medium speed draw, pulling the q ball into the 14, either going behind it or hitting it in the face. Either way knocking the 14 off the rail and stopping the q ball in order to bank the easy, 1 cross corner next.
What comes next depends on the angle that was left for the 1 cross corner.

With so many balls so close to the rails, a precise order of shots is impractical.

Beard
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AaTh3BVmM4CUoL4DPaL4ESDL1FbVj3GQPM3HNeM4IVdl4JMoL3KUQt3LNld3MXeX1NKah3OTBM4PASy3fUQt3fbEp4fbME4kASy3kRny1kEfo1kGSb1kGrb@[/CUETABLE]

I"m sitting here reading the Beard's response, and I"m re-looking at me taking the 13 first. I look at it and go "What the hell were you thinking"?

Because looking at Freddies table, only a complete lunatic would shoot the 13.

Then I noticed the cueball had moved forward about 3 inches from the other tables to Freddie's table. (NOTE: I'm positive it was not intentional, as it's easy to move the ball when your clicking on it, to draw the lines)

Looking at the original diagram though Freddie, what would you do, as it does not seem possible to draw into the 14 off the 11, because of the thinness of the hit required to bank cross-side.

My reasoning for choosing the 13 was based on some of Freddie's critieria. It was close to the cueball, had a big pocket based at it's angle of approach to the side pocket and it was close to the rail. I liked it more because I felt I could control the cueball more based on the much fuller hit, while the 11, I would have to hit pretty thin with outside, and thought my cueball was going to go for a ride.

Believe it or not, I have never been able to hear a bank player's thoughts before, on the game of banks, so having a premiere bank player like Freddie sharing his thoughts on this forum, is pretty cool.

Freddy Moved the CB(got to watch that guy ) I liked his idea no matter where the CB started.

Either position

Either position

Fatboy said:

Freddy Moved the CB(got to watch that guy ) I liked his idea no matter where the CB started.

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The shot and the cue ball path is on from either position. With rt hand draw you can hit the ball a little fuller to compensate for that extra cut angle that I had unknowingly changed.

Beard

blackeee said:

14 straight back,1 cross corner,11 cross side, 6 cross corner or 13 cross side

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That's pretty much what I thought also. I think the 11 is too far off the rail for me to like it(turning the cueball loose) but as it always looks different on a real table I suppose my opinion is subject to change.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AaTh3BVmM4CUoL4DPaL4ESDL1FbVj3GQPM3HNeM4IVdl4JMoL3KUQt3LNld3MXeX1NHIS3OTBM4PALW@2AaTh3BVmM4CUoL4DPaL4ESDL1FbVj3GQPM3HNeM4IVdl4JMoL3KUQt3LNld3MXeX1NHIS3OTBM4PALW1iHIS1iHpk4idOq4kALW1kGjD1kEGM@2AaTh3BVmM4CUoL4DPaL4ESDL1FbVj3GQPM3HNeM4IVdl4JMoL3KUQt3LNld3MXeX4NdOq3OTBM1PEGM2UaTh2UcPk1UdGr1kEGM2kWye2kbJC4kIxx@1AdGr3BVmM4CUoL4DPaL4ESDL1FbVj3GQPM3HNeM4IVdl4JMoL3KUQt3LNld3MXeX4NdOq3OTBM4PIxx3fUQt3fbEm1fefF4kIxx3kRnv3kCuf@1AdGr3BVmM4CUoL4DPaL4ESDL1FbVj3GQPM3HNeM4IVdl4JMoL1KefF3LNld3MXeX4NdOq3OTBM3PCuf@1AdGr3BVmM4CUoL4DPaL4ESDL1FbVj3GQPM3HNeM4IVdl4JMoL1KefF3LNld3MXeX4NdOq3OTBM3PCuf1abVj2acYt3kCuf1kaPV1kcDO@[/CUETABLE]

CaliRed said:

Looking at the original diagram though Freddie, what would you do, as it does not seem possible to draw into the 14 off the 11, because of the thinness of the hit required to bank cross-side.

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I set the shot up today at the poolroom. Starting with the CB on the spot, I could not get the CB to follow the path behind the 14 with either draw or low right. Moving the CB to the place Freddy placed it, I could just barely get a rail-first hit into the 14 with my best stroke. Consequently I would never try it that way. Perhaps with new cloth it would be more likely to get that kind of action with the CB. Also, keep in mind that the 14 is only one ball width off the rail, so it would take a perfect hit to kick it in the direction indicated.

Doc

gulfportdoc said:

I set the shot up today at the poolroom. Starting with the CB on the spot, I could not get the CB to follow the path behind the 14 with either draw or low right. Moving the CB to the place Freddy placed it, I could just barely get a rail-first hit into the 14 with my best stroke.

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Maybe one of the propellor heads can explain why, but I think a short bridge/stroke would make it easier to draw off the 11 and carom into the 14. And I would say the shot would be near impossible on new cloth because of all the sliding the cue ball does.

Please, it's a hanger

Please, it's a hanger

gulfportdoc said:

I set the shot up today at the poolroom. Starting with the CB on the spot, I could not get the CB to follow the path behind the 14 with either draw or low right. Moving the CB to the place Freddy placed it, I could just barely get a rail-first hit into the 14 with my best stroke. Consequently I would never try it that way. Perhaps with new cloth it would be more likely to get that kind of action with the CB. Also, keep in mind that the 14 is only one ball width off the rail, so it would take a perfect hit to kick it in the direction indicated.

Doc

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I just shot the original shot diagrammed and could execute what I said relatively easily. According to the WEI diagram the q ball is on the spot. The object ball is approx 1/2 dia off the rail and 3 1/2 diamond up from the corner pocket. The 14 ball is 2 1/2 diamond away from the corner pocket, or depending on perspective, 1 1/2 dia. away from the other corner.
Shooting it from the position that I unwittingly readjusted, I could get the position 100 in a row. Aiming to hit the ob ball fuller, with a couple tips of low rt hand eng, with a slow, drag type stroke gets it done.
A breath of intelligent breeze wafted in from Senor, who suggested using a short bridge/stroke to enhance the execution. Due to the insidious criticism from our resident scientist, Mr L, I usually avoid dispensing those type, critical hints. I aint lookin to do a further treatise on "The Pleasures of Small Motions." Mr 3 Cush once leaked a short stroke hint, caught a barrage from brother L, and unfortunately moved his act back to the 3 cush dept of AZ.
Way I look at it -- try it. If it works, keep doing it. Like sex. Do I really want to know why young, runaway hillbilly girls do it for me? Do I really need Dr Dave and Bob Jewetts permission to indulge myself?

Beard

One more point. I said you could either stop the qball by going to the rail and then hitting the 14 from behind, or you could hit the 14 direct on. A very large target with a wide margin or error.
A way to determine if the position path is on, is to first determine the carom angle with a center ball hit. Then you can pretty much figure where the q ball will travel with follow or draw. In this case the natural carom would take you to about 1 1/4 diamonds. You would only need to make up about another 1 1/4 diam angle with the draw.

fred bentivegna said:

I just shot the original shot diagrammed and could execute what I said relatively easily. According to the WEI diagram the q ball is on the spot. The object ball is approx 1/2 dia off the rail and 2 1/2 diamond up from the corner pocket. The 14 ball is 2 1/2 diamond away from the corner pocket, or depending on perspective, 1 1/2 dia. away from the other corner.

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The 11-ball is slightly more than 3-1/2 diamonds up from the corner pocket. I didn't try the shot with your short stroke position. Perhaps that would make it easier. Otherwise it's nice to know that you keep good cloth on your table.

A way to determine if the position path is on, is to first determine the carom angle with a center ball hit. Then you can pretty much figure where the q ball will travel with follow or draw. In this case the natural carom would take you to about 1 1/4 diamonds. You would only need to make up about another 1 1/4 diam angle with the draw.

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That's a good tip. But the only way the natural angle brings the CB to 1-1/4 diamonds is with a hard stroke. Are you using a measles cue ball?

Doc

I am with Freddy on the 11 ball, I personally am not a bank pool player but will make this more times then not at about 7-8 out 10 times I would think. The 13 has a piece of the pocket missing with the 9 ball there.

???

???

gulfportdoc said:

The 11-ball is slightly more than 3-1/2 diamonds up from the corner pocket. I didn't try the shot with your short stroke position. Perhaps that would make it easier. Otherwise it's nice to know that you keep good cloth on your table.

That's a good tip. But the only way the natural angle brings the CB to 1-1/4 diamonds is with a hard stroke. Are you using a measles cue ball?

Doc

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Yes, I have an old measles cue ball, which makes it a little harder.

quote: "But the only way the natural angle brings the CB to 1-1/4 diamonds is with a hard stroke."

Why would I need a hard stroke to get the q ball to travel only 4 1/2 diamonds? As long as the q ball has center "stun" on it when it leaves the ob ball it will take a true path.

Beard

fred bentivegna said:

Playing in a match where the stakes are anything higher than a Pepsi, a bank player will always shoot the 11.

Needing only one ball, I would pass-bank the 11, easy, landing softly on the 1 and leaving zilch if I missed.

Needing any amount more than one, I would cross side the 11 with medium speed draw, pulling the q ball into the 14, either going behind it or hitting it in the face.

Beard

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I concur with Freddy's take on this.


- Ghost


PS, Did somebody really say, "bank the straight back 14 first"...yikes!...not even Shannon would do that, as good as he spears straight backs.

One Pocket Ghost said:

PS, Did somebody really say, "bank the straight back 14 first"...yikes!...not even Shannon would do that, as good as he spears straight backs.

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Shannon jumps up and almost hits his head on the ceiling on every shot, what the hell does he know?

Banks is often a choice between taking the easier shot but turning the rock loose, and taking the slightly tougher shot and holding the rock where you want it. It's always a choice.

Cowboy Dennis said:

Shannon jumps up and almost hits his head on the ceiling on every shot, what the hell does he know?

Banks is often a choice between taking the easier shot but turning the rock loose, and taking the slightly tougher shot and holding the rock where you want it. It's always a choice.

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this brings up a question . are bank pool players snipers meaning fire a way and lets see whats next?????? or are they extreme 14.1 players playing the "ridiculous shot" to a straight pool player???( but a common shot for a 1p player ) but still trying to play a pattern to get out??

lll said:

this brings up a question . are bank pool players snipers meaning fire a way and lets see whats next?????? or are they extreme 14.1 players playing the "ridiculous shot" to a straight pool player???( but a common shot for a 1p player ) but still trying to play a pattern to get out??

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Larry,

Banks is it's own game and does not resemble other games. Learning the correct shot to shoot takes time. If a person does not or has not played banks for an extended period of time then he is not likely to know how the game is played.

Dennis