Irving Crane & Joe Balsis

Terry Ardeno

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Both Irving Crane & Joe Balsis played in the Johnston City & Stardust Open All-Around Championships from 1962-1973. Not counting their specialty of 14.1, Balsis won 3 All-Around Championships and 1 9 ball title. Crane also won a 9 ball title. They both obviously played in the 1 pocket portion also but neither won the division. Here's my question...How did these two all time greats do in 1 pocket? Which of the 2 was better at 1 pocket? Thanks!
 

Terry Ardeno

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I don't want to give up on this question yet, so let me re-phrase it a little.

If they both played in several 1 pocket tournaments, they surely had learned enough to at least be competetive with the other entrants, right? Which of those two played better? How did Balsis and Crane's style compare? Did they really dislike 1 pocket so much that they just entered the 1 pocket portion because it was an all around tournament. Or were they lost?

Thanks again.
 

Grady

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Neither one of those great champions could spell One Pocket but they could run balls. Since they were already at the tournament, why not enter? Ronnie Allen played in the Straight Pool, too, which was about the same thing.
 

jay helfert

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Grady said:
Neither one of those great champions could spell One Pocket but they could run balls. Since they were already at the tournament, why not enter? Ronnie Allen played in the Straight Pool, too, which was about the same thing.

This is a good answer. They were able to win One Pocket matches over the weaker players, sheerly on their ball making and ball running ability. They didn't have a clue how to move and any reasonably competent One Pocket player would beat them. Irving Crane could bank a little though. Balsis hated One Pocket, had no clue how to play, and made no secret how much he disliked the game. He was not interested in learning either.

Ronnie had a better chance playing 14.1. He shot straight and could run balls. He won some matches at 14.1 every year. I remember him running something like 70 and out on the Springfield Rifle, and bragged about it for the rest of the tournament.
 

Terry Ardeno

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jay helfert said:
This is a good answer. They were able to win One Pocket matches over the weaker players, sheerly on their ball making and ball running ability. They didn't have a clue how to move and any reasonably competent One Pocket player would beat them. Irving Crane could bank a little though. Balsis hated One Pocket, had no clue how to play, and made no secret how much he disliked the game. He was not interested in learning either.

Ronnie had a better chance playing 14.1. He shot straight and could run balls. He won some matches at 14.1 every year. I remember him running something like 70 and out on the Springfield Rifle, and bragged about it for the rest of the tournament.

Thanks guys for the remarks.
I often wonder why some select few players can be so competent at mutliple disciplines, while others are just as gifted talent wise, but are ( or seem to be) content in specializing in just one game.
Irving Crane had all the talent in the world. In shotmaking, cue ball control and having a mind for the game, including the nuances of working around the rack. I think he could have been great at 1 pocket, had he applied himself.

As for Balsis, his forte was shotmaking, not really great with snow. I don't think he had the disposition for 1 pocket.

Anyway, I had never seen either of these two champions play 1 pocket, so I appreciate the insights offered.
Thanks again.
 

jay helfert

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Terry Ardeno said:
Thanks guys for the remarks.
I often wonder why some select few players can be so competent at mutliple disciplines, while others are just as gifted talent wise, but are ( or seem to be) content in specializing in just one game.
Irving Crane had all the talent in the world. In shotmaking, cue ball control and having a mind for the game, including the nuances of working around the rack. I think he could have been great at 1 pocket, had he applied himself.

As for Balsis, his forte was shotmaking, not really great with snow. I don't think he had the disposition for 1 pocket.

Anyway, I had never seen either of these two champions play 1 pocket, so I appreciate the insights offered.
Thanks again.

Terry,

You have to remember that in their era (especially Crane's), all the legitimate major championships were played at 14.1. One Pocket was essentially a game only favored by gamblers and hustlers. There was really no reason for Crane or Balsis to practice and learn this game. They were not interested in being pool gamblers/hustlers, as much as they wanted to win Championships, and the acclaim that goes with them.

I doubt that either of them would have played in a One Pocket event, had it not been part of the regime at Johnston City and the Stardust. I'm pretty sure Irving got in the money at One Pocket a couple of years at Johnston City. I know he won some matches. I don't know if Balsis ever won more than a match or two. I just remember him complaining about having to play this "hustlers" game. Crane, on the other hand, always gave it his all when he got on the table.
 

Terry Ardeno

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I don't know if Balsis ever won more than a match or two. I just remember him complaining about having to play this "hustlers" game. Crane, on the other hand, always gave it his all when he got on the table.[/QUOTE]

Jay,
These are exactly the kind of tid bits I'm interested in. Those comments I've quoted from you are very revealing about their personalities.
I never met or spoke with Balsis, but for some reason, I've always liked him from what I've read about him. Crane I have spoken with and your comments are dead on with my perception of him. From all that I've found out about studying about these players, your comments on both of them jive perfectly with what I've been able to piece together. Crane had a lot of pride in his game and he took his performance along the same lines as Mosconi did...try to be perfect at all times and settle for nothing but your very best effort. Balsis, it seems to me, was more along the lines of giving it his best but mainly, have fun with the other guys and when all is said and done, pool was not really his life like it was Crane's.
 

jay helfert

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Terry Ardeno said:
I don't know if Balsis ever won more than a match or two. I just remember him complaining about having to play this "hustlers" game. Crane, on the other hand, always gave it his all when he got on the table.

Jay,
These are exactly the kind of tid bits I'm interested in. Those comments I've quoted from you are very revealing about their personalities.
I never met or spoke with Balsis, but for some reason, I've always liked him from what I've read about him. Crane I have spoken with and your comments are dead on with my perception of him. From all that I've found out about studying about these players, your comments on both of them jive perfectly with what I've been able to piece together. Crane had a lot of pride in his game and he took his performance along the same lines as Mosconi did...try to be perfect at all times and settle for nothing but your very best effort. Balsis, it seems to me, was more along the lines of giving it his best but mainly, have fun with the other guys and when all is said and done, pool was not really his life like it was Crane's.[/QUOTE]

Terry,

Trust me, Joe Balsis was a HARD competitor! He wanted to beat everyone he played and bury them if he could. He just didn't like One Pocket and if he got behind in a match, he might give up. He would laugh it off, like it didn't mean anything. But deep down, I think it bothered him that inferior players could beat him easily at this game. That may be why he felt the need to criticize the game.

Irving Crane may have disliked it even more than Balsis, but he would never say anything. And he would never give up in a match either. He always felt like he had a chance to win, even if he was playing someone like Shorty or Red One Pocket. They would have to earn it.

Irving was quite content to keep to himself at tournaments. He didn't seek people out to talk with, and most everyone respected his space, so to speak. After all, the man was a legend! And even the hustlers respected his all around ability as a player. Irving Crane was a SERIOUS pool player, one of the best who ever lived! Probably right up there with Mosconi and Caras as the best of their generation.

Joe Balsis was also a great player and much more gregarious than Crane. Joe would sit around and gab with the boys. Many people don't know that Joe quit Pool for 18 years to raise a family and run a business. That is why his record is not as glossy as some other players. What they also may not know is that Joe was a money player as a young man. He would gamble at 9-Ball or 14.1. So he had some "hustle" in him and related to the young guns of the day.
 

fred bentivegna

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Irving Crane

Irving Crane

Jay really described Balsis and Crane to a "t." They were both vicious competitors. Crane ran 150 and out on Balsis at the US Open in Chicago. The next time they met in Johnston City, Balsis ran 150 and out on Crane! Jersey Red suggested that the next time they play, forego the game and just flip for the break.
Irving Crane, was handicapped with the absolute worst 9 ball break in the game. I played him 9 ball at Johnston City after I had just beaten Cisero Murphy, St Louis Blackie, Wade Crane, Junior Goff, and Steve Cook in a row, playing 9 bal and 1 pkt. I was, needless to say, in dead stroke. The bookmakers put me up as a 3 to 2 dog. However, once it dawned on me what this man was doing to me, regarding his thinking processes; shot selection, postion paths, safeties,etc, I realized I was in way over my head, and I couldn't help but faint and dog my brains out. I took some comfort later when he did the same thing to Eddie Kelly.

the Beard
 

gulfportdoc

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jay helfert said:
Trust me, Joe Balsis was a HARD competitor! He wanted to beat everyone he played and bury them if he could. He just didn't like One Pocket and if he got behind in a match, he might give up. He would laugh it off, like it didn't mean anything. But deep down, I think it bothered him that inferior players could beat him easily at this game. That may be why he felt the need to criticize the game.

Irving Crane may have disliked it even more than Balsis, but he would never say anything. And he would never give up in a match either. He always felt like he had a chance to win, even if he was playing someone like Shorty or Red One Pocket. They would have to earn it.

Irving was quite content to keep to himself at tournaments.
Those were very insightful assessments of Balsis and Crane, Jay. I spoke with Crane to congratulate him after winning the World Pocket Billiard Championship in 1970 in L.A. He was gracious, but shy. Almost surprised that someone would seek him out to tell him he was a great player. He was very understated and reserved-- fairly WASP-ish. But you're right: he played pool like his life depended upon winning.

Doc
 

Terry Ardeno

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Who's was worse....`

Who's was worse....`

fred bentivegna said:
Irving Crane, was handicapped with the absolute worst 9 ball break in the game.

the Beard

Freddie,
If you had to pick a worse 9 ball break, would you go with Danny D or still stay with Crane?
DiLiberto is somewhat fond of his weak 9 ball break, as I've heard him mention it numerous times on Accu-Stats. I had lunch with him one time and asked him if his 9 ball break was really as he describes it to be, and he laughs when he tells how some of the women players kid him about his break.
I've seen his break on all those senior 9 ball Accu-Stats and it didn't look all THAT soft...
By the way, DiLiberto is top shelf all the way!
Terry

PS-I almost have "The GosPool" memorized :)
PSS-Will there be another sequel? Pretty please....
 

NH Steve

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Terry Ardeno said:
Freddie,
If you had to pick a worse 9 ball break, would you go with Danny D or still stay with Crane?
DiLiberto is somewhat fond of his weak 9 ball break, as I've heard him mention it numerous times on Accu-Stats. I had lunch with him one time and asked him if his 9 ball break was really as he describes it to be, and he laughs when he tells how some of the women players kid him about his break.
I've seen his break on all those senior 9 ball Accu-Stats and it didn't look all THAT soft...
By the way, DiLiberto is top shelf all the way!
Terry

PS-I almost have "The GosPool" memorized :)
PSS-Will there be another sequel? Pretty please....
Alright, then, how can a guy with with a blistering fast punch (as in boxing), that can throw a ball over a hundred yards, have that weak a 9-Ball break??!?!? It don't make sense...
 

jay helfert

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NH Steve said:
Alright, then, how can a guy with with a blistering fast punch (as in boxing), that can throw a ball over a hundred yards, have that weak a 9-Ball break??!?!? It don't make sense...


Danny's break wasn't that bad. It was about average. But maybe it was part of his "hustle". After all, Danny was a money player first and foremost. Although he had a great deal of success in tournaments as well.
 

fred bentivegna

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Crane's break

Crane's break

Crane's break was the worst by far. He did not hit the balls hard! He tried to use a nice smooth stroke. God forbid if you tried to talk him into hitting the balls harder. He would brook no discussion on the subject. "There's nothing wrong with my break." he would say. He was also under the misconception that if one of the corner balls fell on the break, it occurred because the balls werent racked correctly. I argued unsuccessfully about that with him.

the Beard
 

yobagua

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Danny still has that "blistering punch" as proved when in hs 70's he had to whack out some young guy who was mouthing off to him recently.
 

hemicudas

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yobagua said:
Danny still has that "blistering punch" as proved when in hs 70's he had to whack out some young guy who was mouthing off to him recently.

really good to see you back with us, Yo. Please elaborate on this super punch. Bet Danny "Jarred" the guy pretty good. Oops, didn't mean to suggest Danny would "Jar" the punch.
 

yobagua

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Hey Hemi. Never left. Been around peeking in but got tired of all the "I beat this guy and then I tortured this guy and we broke even but I never booked a loser stories". I was telling Danny who is some years older than myself that I was feeling tired and old lately and he was yelling at me trying to perk me up. Saying "when I was your age I was running 20 miles a day. Hell I even popped some loud mouth kid the other day for giving me a hard time." You gotta love that guy.
 
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