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  #11  
Old 03-07-2019, 11:13 AM
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youngstownkid youngstownkid is offline
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Default Waiting List Qualifier w/Seeded Finals

Quote:
Originally Posted by darmoose View Post
Mark,



How does the speed of playing a game affect things.



If one player averages 45 mins per game and another goes an hour on average, and another averages 30 mins does one get to play more games, more at bats or what?


Longer games would result in the loser being placed on the waiting list below losers who played in shorter games. 🤗. At bats would only be tracked if I wanted to ensure everyone got the same number of calls. But with such a short waiting list there is little that can be done without disrupting the flow of the others, so I wouldnt want to do that. Allowing a slow player to wreck a tourney designed for maximum play would be counterproductive. The extreme case youre thinking of is really not a big concern of mine. The slow player still gets a ton of table time. Everyone needs a short break from time to time, so moving him to the top of the waiting list all the time to make up for slow play can be grueling. Over the course of several rounds I wouldnt think the would get lapped more than once anyway, but who knows. Im not worried about the extreme cases, if this works great for 99% then IMO its way better than the alternatives.
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  #12  
Old 03-07-2019, 12:48 PM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is online now
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Why have score sheets? It’s just one game. Players who are tied make the cut, like in golf. If you want to understand it better, plz first try reading my original post again.

Mark, I know the TD inters the results of a one game match. But by using a score sheet is the way all tournaments are run by Bad Boys. It lists the name of who won/ who lost, and the score, and signed by the loser. I would assume they use this for a back up reference, so if by chance there is a wrong entry made.
How does a player know if a wrong entry is made at that point.
Will there be a back up computer available so players can check their score and to know how they are doing throughout the tournament? That would be nice, and the norm in keeping with Bad Boys procedure.
I would also keep a personal record card on myself, as in golf, so I can then verified that I am indeed out when I am told so, based on my 'least amount of wins'. That way I can right their on the spot verify for myself that the score is correct, and I am out.

So by your reply comment all ties whether at a elimination point or at the end of the regular session 9pm Saturday, they make the cut. So going into the final we could have more than your example of 9 players. 10,11, and so on in the finals if they make the cut, correct?

Ok, but seeding players with ties would be hard to determine, and seeding would be really important with a 'sudden death race to 2'.

Still open is this question;
when a player wins and thus remains on the table then with a new opponent is the next game's break then determined by lag? Or Winner breaks? Or Opponent breaks?


thanks, Whitey

Last edited by Dennis "Whitey" Young; 03-07-2019 at 12:57 PM.
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  #13  
Old 03-07-2019, 02:32 PM
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youngstownkid youngstownkid is offline
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Default Waiting List Qualifier w/Seeded Finals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis "Whitey" Young View Post
by using a score sheet is the way all tournaments are run by Bad Boys.

Im not a bad boy. I want you to go in that bag and find my wallet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis "Whitey" Young View Post
How does a player know if a wrong entry is made at that point.

Stats can be verified by reviewing the waiting list history. I could just create a journal post and keep it updated with the same information from the Excel file Ill be working from. Anyone wishing to follow along can install Tapatalk on their phone. Laptops will NOT be provided for the participants. JFC, are you for real?


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...

Your other questions can be resolved with a lag or coin.
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  #14  
Old 03-07-2019, 02:40 PM
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Jimmy B Jimmy B is online now
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[QUOTE=youngstownkid;253702]Im not a bad boy. I want you to go in that bag and find my wallet.



"Which One Is it?"
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  #15  
Old 03-07-2019, 02:59 PM
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youngstownkid youngstownkid is offline
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Default Waiting List Qualifier w/Seeded Finals

[quote=Jimmy B;253703]
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngstownkid View Post
Im not a bad boy. I want you to go in that bag and find my wallet.







"Which One Is it?"


I'm trying, Ringo. I'm trying real hard...
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  #16  
Old 03-07-2019, 04:06 PM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is online now
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Yes, I am for real. Last years MOT had the written bracket you could follow. Without that you need some way of following, and I knew there could be no written bracket.
Written brackets are given way to being able to check your bracket on line, as have been the case in tournaments I have attended where no written bracket is available, so reasonable question on my part, which you answered.

The pluses of your Chip format were highlighted in the previous thread, which were good pluses to have! The minuses which are ever bit as of importance to consider, for me are;

1. a players ability to stay on a table until they lose, I would prefer a player holding the table for 2 games only.

2. Concern 1. could possibly lend to much disparity in the # of games played by each player.

I believe the format has been thought out, and you have extensive knowledge of a chip format, and therefore finding it is best that a player can hold the table indefinitely.

I have held the table many times and for hours, tell I quit, when playing bar 8-ball next up table challenge. That's my limited knowledge of 'king of the hill'. For real; that could be a good name for this tournament format; 'king of the hill'.

With that said, I have nothing more to add, for I have never played a format such as this before, so my questions have been asked based on my limited knowledge of this format, and it seems the questions asked and I are not for real! So I am good, and understand where Mark is coming from.

Once again it was good idea to start your own thread! Carry on gentlemen, thanks, Whitey
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  #17  
Old 03-07-2019, 05:23 PM
darmoose darmoose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngstownkid View Post
Longer games would result in the loser being placed on the waiting list below losers who played in shorter games. ��. “At bats” would only be tracked if I wanted to ensure everyone got the same number of calls. But with such a short waiting list there is little that can be done without disrupting the flow of the others, so I wouldn’t want to do that. Allowing a slow player to wreck a tourney designed for maximum play would be counterproductive. The extreme case you’re thinking of is really not a big concern of mine.
Well, the length of any OP game can be the result of a slow player or it can be due to a playing style. Seems I recall someone calculating that the average time for one of our recent MOT"S was 45 mins/game. I would bet that there were players who averaged 30 mins. or even less, and I would bet there were players that averaged more than 45 mins., maybe even up to 60 mins/game.

You are planning 12 hrs of play before the first cut. I don't know what it means to get "lapped", but it seems to me that over 12 hrs of play the 30 min. player could build quite a lead in "at bats", maybe 50% or more. Do you disagree?

I can see where this doesn't make too much difference when playing 9 ball, but OP being played by a bunch of old men incorporates several strategies and playing styles. Seems to me, if I am making the correct assumptions ( and pls correct me if you don't agree) this format favors and promotes the speedier players and the "ball runners", the shooters over the movers, if you will. I have to say that if "at bats" can be easily tracked, but you don't want to because you feel that slow players "wreck" tournaments, so let's just run them over, i am concerned about that.

I have already said I like this format, and so I am not trying to poo-poo it at all. I have a suggestion to resolve this concern, maybe you have more? Since the avg. time has been set at 45 mins. for a OP game in our MOT's, why not divide the 12 hours of play by 45 mins (which equals 16 games), and stop play there, at least until the slower players catch up. If there is still time left when everyone is caught up, play can resume for everybody until quitting time.

16 games is plenty for Friday, by all comments I have heard, and by doing this we are at least holding everybody to a "standard" of 45 mins/game, and if we wish we can cut them off at quitting time, whether they have played 16 games or not. If necessary, we could use the same formula during the next cuts, but as they are pretty short it might not be necessary.



Quote:
The slow player still gets a ton of table time. Everyone needs a short break from time to time, so moving him to the top of the waiting list all the time to make up for slow play can be grueling. Over the course of several rounds I wouldn’t think the would get lapped more than once anyway, but who knows. I’m not worried about the extreme cases, if this works great for 99% then IMO it’s way better than the alternatives.
I appreciate your concern for the slower player being stressed by putting him to the top of the list all the time, but I think he would still like to have the same number of "at bats". I don't think that what you have proposed so far will satisfy 99% of the entrants.

I have offered what I think is a reasonable solution, which I hope you will endorse, because I like the Chip or Waiting list format, with that one caveat.What do you think?


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Last edited by darmoose; 03-07-2019 at 07:50 PM. Reason: error
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  #18  
Old 03-07-2019, 07:59 PM
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youngstownkid youngstownkid is offline
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Default Waiting List Qualifier w/Seeded Finals

Consider this scenario - player one stays on the table for 7 games. During that time an there were 30 names written to the waiting and some of them were written more than once. So player one gets placed on the waiting list at the bottom. Player 1 has played more games than everyone else. Should the TD move him up the waiting list because he has one fewer at bat? I say that doing that can make things weird. Also, as a TD, I want to run a low maintenance tourney, so I prefer not to keep track of things, if I can avoid it. For the first waiting list tourney Id rather keep it as simple as possible, and I think the players would too.
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  #19  
Old 03-07-2019, 08:02 PM
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youngstownkid youngstownkid is offline
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Default Waiting List Qualifier w/Seeded Finals

The best feature of waiting list tournament is that there is absolutely no stop in table usage. You get as many games as humanly possible during the time period allowed. Im not stopping 19 other players to wait for a slow game to finish!
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  #20  
Old 03-07-2019, 08:14 PM
lll lll is online now
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one thing i think needs to be considered
is the goal of the tourney to win (of course for you studs ) over play and meet the guys?
remember its a members only tourney...
depending on your priorities the few skewed "unfairness" may not be relevant
just sayin from someone who doesnt expect to win....
you killers can always match up to see whose balls are bigger...
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