Is this a way to match up at 1p?

Skin

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This is something I have been thinking about as a way to match up instead of the normal ball handicaps like 8-7, 8-6, etc.

How about a race to say 50 balls (all balls get shot off the table each game) and the handicap is that each ball pays a different amount for each player? For example, the stronger player may get paid $10/ball and the weaker $15/ball. When one player makes it to 50 balls, you pay out.

One drawback to it that I can see is that if the player getting $10/ball is getting close and will still be a loser when he gets to 50 balls, he will probably stall like crazy...maybe forever.

Has anybody here ever played that kind of handicap? Does it work well or is it a lousy game?

Skin
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Skin said:
This is something I have been thinking about as a way to match up instead of the normal ball handicaps like 8-7, 8-6, etc.

How about a race to say 50 balls (all balls get shot off the table each game) and the handicap is that each ball pays a different amount for each player? For example, the stronger player may get paid $10/ball and the weaker $15/ball. When one player makes it to 50 balls, you pay out.

One drawback to it that I can see is that if the player getting $10/ball is getting close and will still be a loser when he gets to 50 balls, he will probably stall like crazy...maybe forever.

Has anybody here ever played that kind of handicap? Does it work well or is it a lousy game?

Skin


Skin,

You are asking poolplayers to do an awful lot of thinking here. The only thing we like to do less than work. But I'll give it a whirl.

I would expect to see the most extreme wedge game in the history of one-pocket. If a player could keep running balls after getting 8, then you would want to play for one at a time. I think I'd get a headache if I gave it any more thought.

Dennis
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Skin said:
This is something I have been thinking about as a way to match up instead of the normal ball handicaps like 8-7, 8-6, etc.

How about a race to say 50 balls (all balls get shot off the table each game) and the handicap is that each ball pays a different amount for each player? For example, the stronger player may get paid $10/ball and the weaker $15/ball. When one player makes it to 50 balls, you pay out.

One drawback to it that I can see is that if the player getting $10/ball is getting close and will still be a loser when he gets to 50 balls, he will probably stall like crazy...maybe forever.

Has anybody here ever played that kind of handicap? Does it work well or is it a lousy game?

Skin
These Are All good games But the most impotant thing about matching up is knoweing exacly what speed your opponent plays. From THier You can match up pretty close. But If You dont know how your oponent playes then you better be real carefull. And you need to know his real speed not by listning what someone tel;ls you. Because Its Easy To Steer you into a trap unless you know they player. And Pool Hustlers are great at that. If Someone Steers you into a game tell them to back you to then you know what kind of game you have.
 

Skin

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Skin,

You are asking poolplayers to do an awful lot of thinking here. The only thing we like to do less than work. But I'll give it a whirl.

I would expect to see the most extreme wedge game in the history of one-pocket. If a player could keep running balls after getting 8, then you would want to play for one at a time. I think I'd get a headache if I gave it any more thought.

Dennis

Thnaks for the reply, Dennis. I'm just killing a few minutes waiting to see if Doc is going to shoot on the other thread tonight before I pack it in. It is a lot of thinking for late at night, especially with your latest entourage of babes still dancing in everyone's head.

I figure if anybody has played something like this it will be Artie...and maybe even with a one-handed and on one foot prop! :)

Skin
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Skin said:
Thnaks for the reply, Dennis. I'm just killing a few minutes waiting to see if Doc is going to shoot on the other thread tonight before I pack it in. It is a lot of thinking for late at night, especially with your latest entourage of babes still dancing in everyone's head.

I figure if anybody has played something like this it will be Artie...and maybe even with a one-handed and on one foot prop! :)

Skin
One Thing I Can Tell You Years Ago People Had More Gimmick Ganes THen Today. Because Today Everyones Mind Is On Tournements not hustling. You Can Make All Kinds Of Games But You Need A Coustomer To Play THem With. Maybe if some one puts a add in the front page of a newspaper they will get some action.
 

Skin

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
These Are All good games But the most impotant thing about matching up is knoweing exacly what speed your opponent plays. From THier You can match up pretty close. But If You dont know how your oponent playes then you better be real carefull. And you need to know his real speed not by listning what someone tel;ls you. Because Its Easy To Steer you into a trap unless you know they player. And Pool Hustlers are great at that. If Someone Steers you into a game tell them to back you to then you know what kind of game you have.

That's a good observation, Artie.

I don't know how 14.1 players match up because I have never played that game much. But it seems to me like what I described might be a game they would play a lot.

Skin
 

SJDinPHX

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Skin said:
That's a good observation, Artie.

I don't know how 14.1 players match up because I have never played that game much. But it seems to me like what I described might be a game they would play a lot.

Skin

Skin,

I actually propped the game you are describing a few times.
We did not play for $$$ on the balls though. We just played, first one to get 50 balls for a set amount.

We played the table out (all 15 balls) and whoever made the last ball, broke the next rack.

I never played that game with anyone close to my speed, I played weaker player's and gave them X amount of balls on the wire.

It was OK for a few times, but it is a very hard game to accurately handicap.

For instance, if you were 8 to 6 the better player, you might get 9-10 balls (or more) out of every rack. Weaker players would not take that for long, even if you gave them a 20 ball spot.

I always thought it would be a good game between two evenly matched players. I tried a few times, but most guys prefered the traditional way of matching up.

Artie's right, the glory days of prop games are behind us.

Dick <--loved prop games, sometimes I didn't outsmert myself.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
If Someone Steers you into a game tell them to back you to then you know what kind of game you have.


Well I guess I'll try for the third time. Artie, did you ever bet anything serious on your own nickel? Playing one-pocket?
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Well I guess I'll try for the third time. Artie, did you ever bet anything serious on your own nickel? Playing one-pocket?
I Do Not Understand What You Are Asking?
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
I Do Not Understand What You Are Asking?


Artie,

You mentioned asking someone to stake you as a way to see what they thought of the game they were steering you into. I was wondering, did you ever bet your own cash, in a serious game, that was close enough to lose?

My definition of serious would be $100 a game or higher in a game that you had a 50/50 chance at. Playing one-pocket.

Dennis
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Artie,

You mentioned asking someone to stake you as a way to see what they thought of the game they were steering you into. I was wondering, did you ever bet your own cash, in a serious game, that was close enough to lose?

My definition of serious would be $100 a game or higher in a game that you had a 50/50 chance at. Playing one-pocket.

Dennis
Yes When I Played Gorge Brunt One Pocket Giving Him a ball and the brack And Freddy Backet me for one hundred dollares a game and I lost 8 in a row and Freddy Quite And Then I Raised the bet to 2 hundred dollaers a game and then to 3 hundred dollars a game and I broke him. Do you think if a player beat you 8 games in a row and your backer quits. Do you think they game is 50 50. And I Did That Many Times And Its Only Because I Can Get My Game To A Different Levele THat Other Players Cant Do. I Did The Same Thing With Monk And Grady The Roffer And Other Players. ITs Hard To Do BUt Its Like I Said If You Play The Whole Game Correct And Mistake Free You Can Beat Any Player 8 to 2. THats Why I Loved THe Game Ronnie Offered Me 11 To 8 And He takes all the bracks. bUt He Couldnt find a backer.But I Played Games WEre I Had THe Worst of it by far. But Is I Went into my gear and play my game nobody could win. And nobody will under stand what that means. BUt Me. Thats why whoever i played had the best chance to win the first time I would Play Them Because I Never Went Into Gear For Small money And Show My Real Game. Because Nobody would have played. The proff is you cannot beat those great playerthat shoot better and bank better unless you have something they dont have. And Nodbody ever played me even that shot like me and banket like me. But I beat a lot of people taking the worst of the game. If Some one plays even with me the will not win after 20 houers. But thier are exceptions in all games and sports. And i Would win on a even game. Because I would figure out what I have to do to win. Not just play every game like everybody plays. I had a plane and nobody else does that because they cant figure out what they have to do to win. I am giving up a lot more then I should But Its ok I am Not hustling any more.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
Do you think if a player beat you 8 games in a row and your backer quits. Do you think they game is 50 50.


Thanks Artie, you did answer my question. But I will say one more thing. If your backer quits because you lose 8 in a row, and then you jack the bet on your own cash, it's not the same as you being stuck 8 games. You are starting out even on the money and you are up in knowledge. You are starting with knowledge of your opponent, paid for by your backer. Of course, you were smart enough to take advantage of that, but you did not start out betting your own.

And I have started out in many matches losing the first 6 or 7 games in a row. I am a notoriously slow starter. A terrible burden. Quitting never enters my mind in those situations. And neither does finding a backer. If the game is anywhere near close, you have to beat me till I'm out of cash or I drop dead. Or lately, till I fall asleep.


Dennis
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Thanks Artie, you did answer my question. But I will say one more thing. If your backer quits because you lose 8 in a row, and then you jack the bet on your own cash, it's not the same as you being stuck 8 games. You are starting out even on the money and you are up in knowledge. You are starting with knowledge of your opponent, paid for by your backer. Of course, you were smart enough to take advantage of that, but you did not start out betting your own.

And I have started out in many matches losing the first 6 or 7 games in a row. I am a notoriously slow starter. A terrible burden. Quitting never enters my mind in those situations. And neither does finding a backer. If the game is anywhere near close, you have to beat me till I'm out of cash or I drop dead. Or lately, till I fall asleep.


Dennis
THats Great But I Would Have Bet My Own Money With Gorge I knew how Gorge Played And Like Freddy Said I play Harder For my own then with a backer. And That Is True and Gorge Tried To Beat Me My Whole life. And We Even played gin rummy a lot. And He Got Were The Only way he would play me gin was if I drank Drink For Drink With Him. He Didnt Know that he was going in a worse trap. Gorge was another one of those great gamblers that bet his own money. Gorge was a good gambler in a lot of games. And he shot better then me and banked way better then me. And I Spotted him a ball and the brack. And I Didnt see no one else give him a ball and the brack. And People make excuises and say he couldnt play one pocket. Gorge could play everything encluding 3 cushion billiards and cards and golf on the golf course. He was a very talented person. And he new how to gamble. He Was the best player out of millwakie. Gorge Was real close to me and we new each other for 30 years and gambled with each other all the time. And he never one. THier Are Lots of people I Played That Never One. But thats the way it was. And If you play people who get stuck 6 or 8 games I will bet the will quite or go brock. very few people make come backs after being stuck 8 games. And That Was 8 Games in a row.And THe Reason I Keepte playing is because I new He could not continue that speed of play. And You better know hwo you are playing because a lot of people will quite you winners. And Gorge couldnt quite because he couldnt belive someone could spot him a ball and they brack and when. When He new he banked better and shot better then me. Not to many people will spot someone a ball and the brack that shot better and bank better then they do. Did You Or Anyone ever spot someone A Ball And They brack that shot better then you and banked better then you. Just think about what I am saying. And You Will see that I must know something that other people dont know or how could I win . If the player shoots better and banks better and he is getting a ball and they brack. You might not come up with another person that can do that.Maybe You CAn See What I Am Saying.
 

SJDinPHX

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Sorry Artie, but thats called sloughing off the money, when you blow your backer's cash, and then take it off on your own.
I don't care at what point, or $$$ amount, you decide to kick in your "perfect" game.
Even if you kicked back Freddy's money after you won, you still screwed him out of a good score...he's even... you won a few grand.

There were many pool hustlers who did that on a regular basis. I think its a low life move, and almost the same as cheating.
Lots of places I've been, a pool player really might not like the aftermath of a move like that.

Maybe you can rationalize and justify it, but I'm sorry I never could. I always had a serious case of "slowstartitus" myself, because I never practiced.

But, I have had some serious backers over the years, who are still my close friends today, because win or lose, they knew I always gave it my best shot. Names upon request.

End of speech.
 
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Artie Bodendorfer

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SJDinPHX said:
Sorry Artie, but thats called sloughing off the money, when you blow your backer's cash, and then take it off on your own.
I don't care at what point you kick in your "perfect" game.
Even if you kicked back Freddy's money, you still screwed him out of a good score...he's even, you won a few grand.

There were many pool hustlers who did that on a regular basis. I think its a low life move, and almost the same as cheating.
Lots of places I've been, a pool player really might not like the aftermath.

Maybe you can rationalize and justify it, but I'm sorry I never could.
I have had some serious backers over the years, who are still my close friends today, because win or lose, they knew I always gave it my best shot.

End of speech.
I Guess You Dont See THe Picture Witch is offten the case. And If I bet my own money I couldnt have won. Because of how good Gorge Played And Thats What Ffeddy seen too. That He didnt see no way for me to win. But I Can Go Into Gear And If Gorge Plays The Same Speed Then I Would Not Win. But I Also changed Tables on him. And The way Gorge Was Shooting Nothing Could Make Him Belive He Couldnt Win. And I Didnt Have To Give Freddy Anything Back. Because A lot of players did that including Ronnie and Bugs. But If It Was Reverset Freddy Mite Not Have Given Me Anything Back.So When You Say Something You Have To Look At They whole Picture. And I Look At It Another Way To If I Win 95% of the time the backers got way the best of it. And I Would Have Bet My Own Money. And If I didnt have the money to play I could have gotten 10 people to back me. But I Gave Freddy His Money Back And He Would Have Done The Same I Think if I Was Backing him. Because I Bet My owne money after having a backer that doesnt mean That I will Aoutomatickly win. I Didnt sluff of they money to bet my own. And Gorge Always played me tell he was broke. And You cant control a great player when he is playing good. And he was playing good. Freddy pullied up because he thought thier was no way I could win. And Freddy had plenty of money left. I have never sluffed of a backers money to bet my own money. Or I Would have just dumped Freddy And that would have been the end of the story. And I Could Have Bet 3 or 5 hundred a game and only spoted Gorge the brack. But That Wasant my style. And In Reality whatever you might think or do. If you loose a backers money and he quits he is not intitled to nothing. Because if thats the case and I get another backer. And I win 16 hundred dollares and he quits then according to you he is intitled to get back his 8 hundred and you end up with bracking even. THat would not happen with top players. Unless you want to do him a favor and he is a close friend of youres. A Backer is only in when he is backing you for half. And once the backer is out or quits he is not intitled to anything back because he quite. And THat Saying I Sluff Him Off Is Only A excuse Not the Truth. And if I would Have Lost 5 Thousand dollares of my own Money. How much would my backer Freddy Have Given Me Back. You See Thier Are Two Sides to the story. And Whats Wright is wright. And I Dont Need Backers Unless I Dont Have No Money. Did You Ever Spot Some One A BAll And THe Breack That Banket And Shot Better Then You?
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Artie,

Let me ask another question then. Did you ever play anyone a game of one-pocket, where you had a 50/50 chance , AND bet your own cash, AND lose the first 6, 7 or 8 in a row, AND keep on playing? The answer should not be over one word long. Yes or no?

Ask me that question and you will get a one word answer.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Artie,

Let me ask another question then. Did you ever play anyone a game of one-pocket, where you had a 50/50 chance , AND bet your own cash, AND lose the first 6, 7 or 8 in a row, AND keep on playing? The answer should not be over one word long. Yes or no?

Ask me that question and you will get a one word answer.
That Is A Hand Cuffed Qouistion. And Why Would You Ask That Qouistion? Yes Or No Sounds Like A Dicktatership. I WAs Stuch 18 games in a row with Nick Varner. And A week later We Played 3 hundred dollares a game 5 days in a row is that good enough or does that explain the yes and no. Because I gave the breack down. And Having someone say yes or no is giving them a altamatum and putting them on the spot. its not like asking a qouistion and giving your answer. YES OR NO IS A NO WIN SITUATION.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
And Why Would You Ask That Qouistion? Yes Or No. And Having someone say yes or no is giving them a altamatum and putting them on the spot. its not like asking a qouistion and giving your answer. YES OR NO IS A NO WIN SITUATION.

Artie,

I asked the question to learn the answer. And you have had 4 opportunities to answer it and have not. If you asked me the question, I would answer in one word. I would not tell pool stories for two hours. I would either say yes or I would say no. But I would not tell stories. You have now answered the question by not answering the question. I have no need to ask it again.

Dennis
 
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