Laying down a trap

keoneyo

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I think my problem the other day was i made some unforced errors the first few games and he got a few games up. Then when i was leaving him hard off angle banks that were sell outs or difficult long sell out shots he didn't feel any heat. Then he chose the hard shots instead of trying a safe and kept draining them.

John do you have plans on playing this opponent again. Id like to hear of your preparations and your strategy after assessing it. Let us know how it went. Good luck.
 

Tom Wirth

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This game is very much like chess but it is also very different. Unlike Chess, thinking several moves ahead in One Pocket is nearly impossible. Why? Because the landscape changes so rapidly. Only one piece at a time can be moved on a chess board and there is always a best move and a best reply regardless of who is playing the game. We all know that is not the case in our chosen game. We play with personalities and the game requires a certain degree of skill and heart. We must be able to assess the strengths and weaknesses of our adversaries and those within ourselves in much the same way armies do in times of war.

Tom

Tom the thread topic is Laying Down a Trap. In doing so do you not think how your opponent will respond? Do you not think of the options that he can take?
What if instead of shooting out of it he takes an intentional do you have an alternate plan instead. This is what I mean about thinking 2 or 3 shots ahead.

I am all for keeping it simple. But I believe the human brain can process a lot of information. We just have to use it.

Maybe it comes with time and experience but in my observations people make the same errors again and again. They are not using their brains to analyze the situation. They are playing on basic instinct aggressive or passive.

As you alluded this particular game is complex and a simple approach is best. But we still have to have an educated approach.

Keone, There will be times during many games when it will be possible to think more than a couple moves ahead but even then, what is the point? I do this and you do that. I then follow that up with this. That is as far as you will ever have to go.

When you play a rotation game, how do you approach running out the game? Most top players view the layout, plan their run, and then go into a three ball sequence with every shot from that point onward. I'm sure you do the same thing. You shoot the one, planning to get position on the two that leads you to the three. When shooting the two, you plan position on the three to lead you to the four. And so on through to the end when you finally pocket the nine ball.

The same is true in One Pocket. Three shots, yours, your opponent's, and then yours again. Every shot carries this same three shot sequence. Keone, that's as far as you need to go, and in many cases you don't have to go that far.

Tom
 

petie

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A few random thoughts:

The hardest non-One Pocket-playing players to beat for me are straight pool players. They get it right away, have great cue ball control, and know how to play safe. My experience with Dave Ross is a good example. Dave is 81 and has survived Cancer for 12 years. In his heyday he ran a 311 in Straight Pool—very little One Pocket experience. I played him three games and never scored a ball. He ran 3 consecutive 8 and outs after jousting back and forth a little.

The whole thing about a good trap is it limits choices or in some cases offers a Trojan horse to produce a given response. Maybe you haven’t thought through the responses many moves ahead but you have forced him or enticed him into a limited range of responses all of which advantage you.

This is one of my favorite videos. It illustrates many of the points that have been made in this discussion. I hope you like it as much as I do. Notice how in the first rack he points out his hits at one point. The shot at about 6:27 is so beautiful it will make you drool. When placed side-by-side with his previous shot, it illustrates the value of proximity to the interfering ball(s). This video also illustrates the value of running all the way out. It only lasts 11 or 12 minutes. Enjoy it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-VLEGE6vi0
 

keoneyo

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Keone, There will be times during many games when it will be possible to think more than a couple moves ahead but even then, what is the point? I do this and you do that. I then follow that up with this. That is as far as you will ever have to go.

When you play a rotation game, how do you approach running out the game? Most top players view the layout, plan their run, and then go into a three ball sequence with every shot from that point onward. I'm sure you do the same thing. You shoot the one, planning to get position on the two that leads you to the three. When shooting the two, you plan position on the three to lead you to the four. And so on through to the end when you finally pocket the nine ball.

The same is true in One Pocket. Three shots, yours, your opponent's, and then yours again. Every shot carries this same three shot sequence. Keone, that's as far as you need to go, and in many cases you don't have to go that far.

Tom

Your example is not a good one for me in terms of strategy in rotation play. Because in one pocket a good part of the game is the leave. Where can I leave my opponent that will cause him problems. Or where can I not leave him in order not to sell out. So further thinking is needed.

But anyway I said what I had to say about the topic. Men like yourself and Billy have much more seniority and experience than me. So if you do not agree its either I did not explain myself well or I could be wrong. I just see that a great percentage of the players do not see the depth of the problems.
In other games like Chess and Poker volumes are written about strategy, psychology, and theories. Pool is behind in comparison. And if you say that pool is easier than that. Why write a book?
 

wincardona

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Keone, There will be times during many games when it will be possible to think more than a couple moves ahead but even then, what is the point? I do this and you do that. I then follow that up with this. That is as far as you will ever have to go.

When you play a rotation game, how do you approach running out the game? Most top players view the layout, plan their run, and then go into a three ball sequence with every shot from that point onward. I'm sure you do the same thing. You shoot the one, planning to get position on the two that leads you to the three. When shooting the two, you plan position on the three to lead you to the four. And so on through to the end when you finally pocket the nine ball.

The same is true in One Pocket. Three shots, yours, your opponent's, and then yours again. Every shot carries this same three shot sequence. Keone, that's as far as you need to go, and in many cases you don't have to go that far.

Tom

Thank you, the three shot sequence applies to just about all games and that's all you can ask of yourself especially playing one pocket because of all the uncertainties. Playing a game like 9ball the balls will speak loudly because you will see a pattern, not true playing one pocket because the strategy may change from shot to shot. Playing one pocket we will have an agenda, whether it will be setting the table, breaking up a problematic area, or simply putting balls out of play, ect,ect, however, the three shot sequence may be crippled by an aggressive move that we didn't anticipate, then we need to switch gears and start another "three shot sequence"

Excellent post Tom.

Dr. Bill
 

12squared

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I cannot comment on anyone's posts as they all seem excellent to me, but...

I remember watching the video of Danny D playing Ronnie Allen action match in AZ somewhere, and there was a time where Ronnie was saying to Danny something like: if I do this, then you do this then I do this and you play the carom into your pocket...I ain't going for it.

I guess Ronnie (and maybe Danny) were looking a couple shots ahead if I remember this correctly. But it's been a long time.

Thanks for this thread.

Dave
 

Scrzbill

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To me the trap starts when you walk in the door and choose you opponent and negotiate the game. Controlling the game mentally is what I try to do when playing a better player or someone my speed. I do this by taking away their shots, frustrating them, breaking them down. Getting out of traps and reversing the table, making shots they leave me that they think are traps.
As far as thinking three balls ahead, I wish. It's not chess and the landscape changes quickly, every turn. What you can do is have a general plan on playing an up table game, a leave them in the stack, leaving the cue ball locked up or all of the above plus a few you like.
 

LSJohn

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To me the trap starts when you walk in the door and choose you opponent and negotiate the game. Controlling the game mentally is what I try to do when playing a better player or someone my speed. I do this by taking away their shots, frustrating them, breaking them down. Getting out of traps and reversing the table, making shots they leave me that they think are traps.
As far as thinking three balls ahead, I wish. It's not chess and the landscape changes quickly, every turn. What you can do is have a general plan on playing an up table game, a leave them in the stack, leaving the cue ball locked up or all of the above plus a few you like.

Dude, where ya been?

We need you around here. Somebody is ALWAYS needin' a bitch-slappin'. :D
 

Scrzbill

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Dude, where ya been?

We need you around here. Somebody is ALWAYS needin' a bitch-slappin'. :D

I'm your huckleberry. After reading this, I booked my flight. I'm not saying where too, but I'm booked. To the moon Alice, to the moon........
It took about two weeks to recover from what you slipped into my drink and then I came down with a horrible chest cold from being low on the immune system and then we moved to Harry Platis land. Pretty soon players will be booking flights got the Platis, Kentucky sweepstakes.
 

LSJohn

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I'm your huckleberry. After reading this, I booked my flight. I'm not saying where too, but I'm booked. To the moon Alice, to the moon........
It took about two weeks to recover from what you slipped into my drink and then I came down with a horrible chest cold from being low on the immune system and then we moved to Harry Platis land. Pretty soon players will be booking flights got the Platis, Kentucky sweepstakes.

Oooo. That looks like easy pickins'. Which airport is closest to you? :D
 

vapros

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I have a trunkful of discarded game plans. They have usually gone bad before I got back to the table. Good shot plans work better for me.
 

Scrzbill

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Oooo. That looks like easy pickins'. Which airport is closest to you? :D

Seattle. I called Harry yesterday to let him know I was around and that I wanted to practice for the Derby. He told me about some other guy from Kentucky who moved here. Harry and I play about even but since this about traps, I know he likes long rail banks, so I let him shoot at them. It gives me a slight advantage over the long run.
 

crabbcatjohn

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John do you have plans on playing this opponent again. Id like to hear of your preparations and your strategy after assessing it. Let us know how it went. Good luck.

Probably today if he is there. Strategy? Like you said. Don't leave him a shot....:eek:
 

crabbcatjohn

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Well i did play today. Except my guy ended up showing up late. I of course made the #1 mistake in gambling... Don't lend someone money to gamble against you.... I also broke the #2 rule. Never lend Buddy money to gamble against you...lol I can say this, that's the best i've ever seen him play one pocket and i've been playing him pool for 20yrs. Beat me 5 in a row playing even and the last 4 out of 5 giving me 9-7. We don't play for much but damn he ran over me...lol Last game, i need 2 he needs one. His ball is almost froze to the end rail about 3" from his pocket. I hang my long rail bank leaving my ball deep into my pocket and leave the cue ball close to the side rail up by the head rail on his side with no shot to make his ball. The other ball is out of play. He says i know this shot. Fires the cue ball 9 ft away into the left side of my ball making my ball and the cue ball scoots along the end rail towards his pocket making his ball... He tried to show me it after the game and missed it every time...lol :lol
 

Island Drive

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If ya have the right type of trap, it's easy to catch crabs LOL.
Merry Xmas ma friend, might see you in Jan/DCC or on my waaaaaaay back from the E. Coast if ya can stand me.

How's your lemon truck working out, got the replacement yet Honey:D....buzz buzz to the bee keeper.
 
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crabbcatjohn

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If ya have the right type of trap, it's easy to catch crabs LOL.
Merry Xmas ma friend, might see you in Jan/DCC or on my waaaaaaay back from the E. Coast if ya can stand me.

How's your lemon truck working out, got the replacement yet Honey:D....buzz buzz to the bee keeper.

Yea Bud, finally got all that worked out and they did me right enough. I got my new 16 Colorado 4x4 last week. Took them 7 weeks to build it. Its a little beast...lol I'm working on customizing it now. I'll be at DCC as usual and you got the couch when you need it. 6 wks till Derby you better get you butt moving. I think i'm just going to do banks this year unless i get enough hives made in advance so i don't have to leave early again like last year. Let me know if you are going to make it.
 

crabbcatjohn

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Sorry to hear that, John. Tough.

Sh*t happens Mitch. lol I won 13 games in a row with no losers the week before against the guys i spot on league night... so i'm still a good winner for the week. ...lol Anybody who wants to try the old Champ better watch their biscuits. He's hitting the ball pretty good. There was a nice perk I won't go into for loaning the money If i were to win.... I could have come out pretty good. We only play ten a game so nothing's smarting too bad but my pride....
 

Mkbtank

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Laying down a trap

Anybody who wants to try the old Champ better watch their biscuits. ...


My biscuits and I will be there, champ. 😬.

It does come and go though. I had a great week gambling but today couldn't hit water if I fell out of a boat.
 

crabbcatjohn

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My biscuits and I will be there, champ. 😬.

It does come and go though. I had a great week gambling but today couldn't hit water if I fell out of a boat.

I meant Buddy, i'm far from a champ. But if you got biscuits, i'll be glad to try to bring some home with me. I love biscuits with some of my organic honey on them...lol
 
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