Owen vs. Bustamante

Jeff sparks · May 11, 2016

lll said:
i dont see how you can make the cue ball go backward then go forward....
if it goes along the tangent line and hits the top of the stripe i could see the follow english getting the cue ball go as diagrammed
but the stripe would have to go to the side rail
great imaginative shot tho....

Larry,
If the two balls are close enough together, meaning that the hitting of the ball to be banked and the ball to be forced backwards is almost simultaneous, then the shot works. The forced ball will move directly backwards towards the pocket and the banked ball, if hit decently should either make or hang in the pocket.

The CB if hit with high RHE will move up table almost exactly like Dave showed it. Only thing that could possibly be wrong with this shot is the separation between the two balls, if it's to wide, then the shot will fail. To me it's very close, looks like it's doable, I'm just disappointed I didn't see it before.

It would be my choice if the two balls laid right. Good shot Dave and way to look over the table!

PS... The high applied to the CB will actually draw the CB slightly off the ball to be banked, helping close the gap between the two balls.

Cowboy Dennis · May 11, 2016

LSJohn said:
I've got some grapes for sale and they're kinda sour.

OK,OK the 8 bank is a good shot, but I can't shoot it with such a small target zone for a safe cue ball. Gabe missed it enough that Busty would comfortably slice in the 7 if the 8 didn't go.

John,

When someone leaves you a bank like that or it comes up in run of balls you simply have to find a way to shoot it. It's a basically "free" shot if you handle the cueball. Gabe did not handle the cueball.

I would try to put it where I showed or even higher up the table.

Frank Almanza · May 11, 2016

Jeff sparks said:
I'm not leaving the CB on his side rail here, the shot you are suggesting Tom will definitely improve your position, but there are to many bank and escape options from where you want the CB to rest. I want the CB up table near the top right corner pocket protecting my soldiers.

I would 3 rail the 15 ball and follow the CB with a touch of high right English, I really want the CB to rest on his long rail, between the CP and the 1st diamond.
I believe this is the same shot Frank is suggesting, except he called the 15 ball the 11 ball.

Whatta ya think?

That is the shot I suggested and Doc did label that ball as the 11 ball on one of his pictures. First page and last picture at the bottom.

LSJohn · May 11, 2016

Cowboy Dennis said:
John,

When someone leaves you a bank like that or it comes up in run of balls you simply have to find a way to shoot it. It's a basically "free" shot if you handle the cueball. Gabe did not handle the cueball.

I would try to put it where I showed or even higher up the table.

Yes, I remember your different CB line after contact with the 8. My concerns were (are): the higher you go with the CB, the smaller the safe zone, if Busty is willing to shoot the 7 from near the side pocket; if Gabe didn't manage the CB, I have my doubts about my ability to do it, and I'm less likely to make the 8 than he (probably a lot less.) I have to manage the CB with that 7 sitting there; Busty is one of four or five people (Pinoys and Buddy Hall) I'd least want to leave any 7-cut that was possible to make. I like the shot a lot better against a lesser opponent.

But, all that said, I missed seeing it as an option, and missed Dave's shot also. I need to look more carefully because both look viable to me with slightly different placement of just a couple of balls (7 ball an inch out or lower, for one) then I start liking your shot for me a lot more.

Very good WWYD. Lots of workable choices.

wincardona · May 11, 2016

Obviously if the 8ball banking option is available there's really no choice of options bank the 8ball and go for the win with little to no downside. However, if the bank on the 8ball is not available then this position becomes much more interesting and there are several choices that could be taken. Personally i'm taking the conservative route with playing a safe off the right side of the 13ball and positioning the cue ball near the rail by the side pocket. The 2ball protects the 3, and 15ball, and the 13ball in it's new position may block the 12ball precluding a simple roll off safety for your opponent. After moving the 13ball you open up the pocket for the 2ball to go in your pocket and you take away the ugly 2-13ball cluster that only favored your opponent. This shot isn't exactly playing aggressively but it does get a lot done with no return option for your opponent to be be concerned about. Next time back at the table you just may find yourself in a much better position to do a number of things, possibly choosing an option to end up in back of the 7ball by your opponents pocket.

Dr. Bill

gulfportdoc · May 11, 2016

wincardona said:
Obviously if the 8ball banking option is available there's really no choice of options bank the 8ball and go for the win with little to no downside. However, if the bank on the 8ball is not available then this position becomes much more interesting and there are several choices that could be taken. Personally i'm taking the conservative route with playing a safe off the right side of the 13ball and positioning the cue ball near the rail by the side pocket. The 2ball protects the 3, and 15ball, and the 13ball in it's new position may block the 12ball precluding a simple roll off safety for your opponent. After moving the 13ball you open up the pocket for the 2ball to go in your pocket and you take away the ugly 2-13ball cluster that only favored your opponent. This shot isn't exactly playing aggressively but it does get a lot done with no return option for your opponent to be be concerned about. Next time back at the table you just may find yourself in a much better position to do a number of things, possibly choosing an option to end up in back of the 7ball by your opponents pocket. Dr. Bill

Yes, absent the 8, I'd take a hard look at that shot myself. It might even be possible to come off the 1 ball in order to roll the CB up near the head rail corner. You'd have to make sure that slightly moving the 1 wouldn't leave a decent combo for the opponent down the line...

~Doc

Cowboy Dennis · May 11, 2016

Cowboy Dennis said:
John,

When someone leaves you a bank like that or it comes up in run of balls you simply have to find a way to shoot it. It's a basically "free" shot if you handle the cueball. Gabe did not handle the cueball.

I would try to put it where I showed or even higher up the table.

LSJohn said:
Yes, I remember your different CB line after contact with the 8. My concerns were (are): the higher you go with the CB, the smaller the safe zone, if Busty is willing to shoot the 7 from near the side pocket; if Gabe didn't manage the CB, I have my doubts about my ability to do it, and I'm less likely to make the 8 than he (probably a lot less.) I have to manage the CB with that 7 sitting there; Busty is one of four or five people (Pinoys and Buddy Hall) I'd least want to leave any 7-cut that was possible to make. I like the shot a lot better against a lesser opponent.

But, all that said, I missed seeing it as an option, and missed Dave's shot also. I need to look more carefully because both look viable to me with slightly different placement of just a couple of balls (7 ball an inch out or lower, for one) then I start liking your shot for me a lot more.

Very good WWYD. Lots of workable choices.

John,

I don't fantasize in these WWYD's that I am playing Bustamante, Efren, Buddy, Gabe, Cornbread, Shannon, Bugs or any other player. I MUST assume that I am playing an equal opponent an even game. That's the only fair way for me to assess these WWYD's.

That said, I don't think the 7 is as much of a threat as you think it is.

The 8 is a "free" shot and if you don't shoot it, it will be lost to you forever.

To each his own

.

Dennis

Island Drive · May 11, 2016

Cowboy Dennis said:
Why would anybody in their right mind do anything but bank the 8 straight-back??? You can only run out if you make it. Am I missing something?

That's the only shot I saw, very controllable draw shot.

LSJohn · May 11, 2016

Cowboy Dennis said:
John,

I don't fantasize in these WWYD's that I am playing Bustamante, Efren, Buddy, Gabe, Cornbread, Shannon, Bugs or any other player. I MUST assume that I am playing an equal opponent an even game. That's the only fair way for me to assess these WWYD's.

Good point.

That said, I don't think the 7 is as much of a threat as you think it is.

We'd probably agree one way or the other if we were both at the table and thinking of the same opponent. Seeing the angles differently is a small downside to these, but even that brings in suggestions that might not work in the actual situation but are good brainstorming.

Cowboy Dennis · May 12, 2016

LSJohn said:
We'd probably agree one way or the other if we were both at the table and thinking of the same opponent. I doubt we'd be playing the same opponent even One-Pocket. Seeing the angles differently is a small downside to these, but even that brings in suggestions that might not work in the actual situation but are good brainstorming.

Thinking about it sure can't hurt.

Dennis

Owen vs. Bustamante

Jeff sparks

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Cowboy Dennis

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Frank Almanza

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LSJohn

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wincardona

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Island Drive

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