shooting hard,my reason

wincardona

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Funny, all these years as a very average banker, I believed that the top bankers shot at warp speed to maintain the same angle on all banks. In other words, I thought that shooting hard did away with the variation in rebound as the object ball does not have "time" to pick up roll and the very tight compression of the cushion made for consistent rebounds. I never thought it was for pocket acceptance as John has pointed out. I have found I win more with a very heavy balance toward hard strokes, say 80 hard and the remaining 20% at less speed for positional purposes.

Does my old theory not hold any water? :)

DeeMan
I certainly don't know nearly as much about banking as Brumback, or Freddy, but I also believe in what you wrote as true. Maybe we're wrong but it makes good sense.

Dr. Bill
 

John Brumback

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I certainly don't know nearly as much about banking as Brumback, or Freddy, but I also believe in what you wrote as true. Maybe we're wrong but it makes good sense.

Dr. Bill

I don't think your wrong.Just another good reason to go along with it.:) IMO John B.
 

Big Jim

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banking hard

banking hard

I've been playing banks for 56 years or so, give or take. I know where John Broomback is coming from and agree with him. I also like Freddie's point of view.
Sometimes on a worn in cloth on a smart table, the going can get a little tuff with rocket speed banks, so at that time i like finessing them in.
Jim
 

John Brumback

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I've been playing banks for 56 years or so, give or take. I know where John Broomback is coming from and agree with him. I also like Freddie's point of view.
Sometimes on a worn in cloth on a smart table, the going can get a little tuff with rocket speed banks, so at that time i like finessing them in.
Jim

Good point Big Jim.Yep on that ole worn out dirty cloth you gots to hit him real good or take some speed off,maybe. Hey....broomback...? not you too?:lol John B.

PS: this Big Jim guy know's bankpool inside and out, even though he's getting up there and can't handle going to tunica:p Just knockin your action,Big Jim and messin witch ya:lol
 

Big Jim

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tunica

tunica

John Broomback,
I been trying to work up the nerve to drive 405 miles to tunica, but i figgered by the time i got there i would need a really long nap and wouldn't feel like playing pool or watching, lol. Good luck to you my friend and knock em down if you get a chance.......
 

bstroud

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John,

When I was a lot younger and traveling with Taylor he made it very clear that banking hard made the pocket accept the balls better.

Many times he would miss an end rail bank by a diamond and it would scurry in the hole.

I asked him about and he told me it was a combination of speed and center ball.

What I think has changed is the transition to Diamond tables, smaller pockets and Simmonis cloth. I often wish I could see Taylor play today to see what he did.

I used to be a pretty good banker on Gold Crown tables. Played even with James Brown but didn't play it much.

When I started back playing after 40 years I found the conditions difficult to say the least.

On the Gold Crown banks seemed to be all speed and angle. Now on the new Diamonds there seems to be a new variable.

I have recently spent a lot of time studying banks and it seems to me that what is new is the way the object ball acts. The rubber seems so sensitive that the slightest variation in the way the cue ball hits the object ball causes a wide variation in the angle off the rail.

I have discovered that a straight back and straight thru stroke (kind of a push with speed) eliminates most of the cue ball variables and I am making 50% more banks.

Perhaps this is all the way good bankers play?

Anyway it is working great for me.

Bill Stroud
 

Cowboy Dennis

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I have discovered that a straight back and straight thru stroke (kind of a push with speed) eliminates most of the cue ball variables and I am making 50% more banks.

Perhaps this is all the way good bankers play?

Anyway it is working great for me.

Bill Stroud

Bill,

Isn't a "straight back & straight through" stroke the stroke that most good players strive for (but don't usually accomplish)? Not just bankers? What's so special about your "discovery"? It's basic fundamentals.

Dennis
 

bstroud

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Bill,

Isn't a "straight back & straight through" stroke the stroke that most good players strive for (but don't usually accomplish)? Not just bankers? What's so special about your "discovery"? It's basic fundamentals.

Dennis

Dennis,

It's not the straight back and straight through stroke I am talking about.

It's more like you are scooting the cue ball with a push that seems to eliminate unwanted English on the cue ball and creates more consistency in the way you strike the object ball.

I would need to show you what I am talking about.

If you are in Phoenix this fall I can show you. I just bought a home in Scottsdale so I will be spending the winters there.

Bill Stroud
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Dennis,

It's not the straight back and straight through stroke I am talking about.

It's more like you are scooting the cue ball with a push that seems to eliminate unwanted English on the cue ball and creates more consistency in the way you strike the object ball.

I would need to show you what I am talking about.

If you are in Phoenix this fall I can show you. I just bought a home in Scottsdale so I will be spending the winters there.

Bill Stroud

Bill,

I know you were a very good player. Do you think there's a possibility that you are simply rediscovering things you may have forgotten about during your 40 year layoff? It sounds to me like you are simply following-through. No big secret to it and it's nothing new. Here's a pic of me and the way I follow-through (bottom pic) on normal length shots. The joint of my cue ends up in my bridge hand. This technique creates much consistency in the way I strike the object ball also.

CBD.jpg

I'd really like to visit Phoenix but I actually just back from spending a few days there. I left many gifts laying around town:p:D. I hope the Duck finds one.:eek:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/us/phoenix-area-rattled-by-booby-trapped-flashlights.html
 

ChrisBanks

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Rochester, NY
John,

Does this principle also apply to straight backs? Shooting a straight back with hard speed seems to reduce the pocket size, but maybe it is still easier to pocket with hard speed?

When I shoot straight backs on a tight table, I will struggle to make one at all because they have a tendency to rattle.
 

bstroud

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Dennis,

You're not getting what is happening to the cue ball at all.

It is traveling across the table in an inert condition. No spin of any kind.

When it hits the object ball it imparts no spin at all making the object balls' reaction off the rail much more predictable.

Bill
 

usblues

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St Paul,Mn
I would.....

I would.....

......like to know the materials that Diamond uses for their cushions.In the old days Brunswick used 100% rubber as did many makers.Over the years I've heard from table guys that now and for the last 20 years they have been using a mixture of material for the cushions.Not sure if that accounts for the difference between a GC and a Diamond or not.Since inquiring minds want to know,I will investigate further and report back back after the 4th of July,cheers,Bob
 

bstroud

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......like to know the materials that Diamond uses for their cushions.In the old days Brunswick used 100% rubber as did many makers.Over the years I've heard from table guys that now and for the last 20 years they have been using a mixture of material for the cushions.Not sure if that accounts for the difference between a GC and a Diamond or not.Since inquiring minds want to know,I will investigate further and report back back after the 4th of July,cheers,Bob

Bob,

Thanks. I don't know what the difference is but I do know there is a big difference.

It is probably more noticeable to me since I stopped playing for 40 years.

I think the cloth makes some difference also.

Bill S.
 

usblues

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St Paul,Mn
Cushions.....

Cushions.....

......and the truth therein will take some detective work.In the last 1.5 hours I've been to 3 websites and talked to a fellow at a table manufactory site.As its Saturday I havent connected with anybody yet at the source.The guy at the table maker site said theres a few unscrupulous cushion sellers and makers.The most interesting fact I've found was on Brunswicks site regarding cushions,cloth etc. etc. and they mention and I quote "a propietary formulation".Which leads me to believe their cushions aren't 100% rubber.And if they are mixing and matching over there in China you know alot of others are also.I will attempt to make contact with some more people higher up next week and report back.This is Jimmy Smith at the Daily Planet[Supermans friend] signing off till next Tuesday and leaving you with the words from that early American pioneer Al Capone who once said "You can go alot farther in America with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word."
 

tylerdurden

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Are the diamond rails (the point where the rail touches the cb) actually higher than a brunswick's?? It seems they are to me at times, I don't play on diamonds much though. It seems like if true, that could have some effect on the "shortening". As I always note though, perhaps it is just that brunswicks play long, ha, semantics I guess.
 

lll

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vero beach fl
here is what i know
the old diamond tables have a red backed name plate
the angle of the the nose to the playing surface (im not sure of the height ) was different from a gold crown
also i beleive they use atemis for their rails whereas brunswick uses superspeed
the newer diamonds have a blue background name late that is supposed to play more like a brunswick
 
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bstroud

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I have a new Diamond with the blue nameplate and the new rubber and the new rail angle and it doesn't play like a gold crown at all.

The rubber in the rails is much more sensitive and sometime even seems to ADD speed to the balls?

Very difficult to play on.

In contrast most banks on a gold crown seem to be much more perfectible.
English on the object ball doesn't appear to have as much of an effect.

Bill S.
 

lll

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vero beach fl
I have a new Diamond with the blue nameplate and the new rubber and the new rail angle and it doesn't play like a gold crown at all.

The rubber in the rails is much more sensitive and sometime even seems to ADD speed to the balls?

Very difficult to play on.

In contrast most banks on a gold crown seem to be much more perfectible.
English on the object ball doesn't appear to have as much of an effect.

Bill S.

bill
thanks for your experience on the "new " blue backgrounded table
i guess the press about them playing like diamonds isnt correct according to you experience
 

fred bentivegna

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chicago illinois
For those unaware I will give you a little background on cushions and rubber.
Those wonderful gum rubber cushions went bye bye when WWII hit. All the rubber plantations were in the South Pacific and they were being controlled by the Japanese. There was a monstronious rubber shortage. Cushions from then on were made with American rubber (which was shit) and mixtures and components. The good shit from those old rubber trees became passe'.

I bought 5 old Brunswick Arcade tables from a pool hall that had been closed for 20 yrs. They were in an unheated basement all that time. The tables and the rubber were 70 -80 yrs old. The rubber on the billiard tables was K-43 and the pool rubber was K-66. Needless to say I didnt buy new rubber, and that old stuff even after all that abuse with cold and dampness, still played perfect.

Billy Smith played on my old Billiard tables and loved the cushions. They played soft and long, but still lively.


Beard
 

SJDinPHX

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For those unaware I will give you a little background on cushions and rubber. Billy Smith played on my old Billiard tables and loved the cushions. They played soft and long, but still lively.

Beard

Dear Mr. Beardbrain,

Why would a mediocre, has been player, like Mr. Pincushion, be considered a valid recommendation ? :confused:.. Whereas, if you had MY opinion, it would really mean something..:cool:

Mr.Willie Hoppe Mc Duck jr. <--Could have given Mr.P, at least 10 points, going to 25..:cool: (or 8 to 5 at one hole) .:sorry :D...
...Lord, if he were just a few years younger, between you two, and the entire Bensinger crew, McDuck could have retired a Billionaire..(instead of just a 'thousandaire')..:eek:
 
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