Would you put this last ball into play, in a serious game?

[CUETABLE][/CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AADV4BALp4CAMG1PCbo1QDpo1RFEn4UADV4UbKx1kCbo1kCCf4kAkK1lDpo4lAkP4lVUq4lVMs1mFEn1mEnj4mAsQ4mRtp2qQtFThe_starting_position_with_the_cue_ball_often_dictates_what_shot_is_best.&ZZ@[CUETABLE][/CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AADV4BALp4CAMG1PCbo1QDpo1RFEn4UADV4UbKx1kCbo1kCCf4kAkK1lDpo4lAkP4lVUq4lVMs1mFEn1mEnj4mAsQ4mRtp2qQtFThe_starting_position_with_the_cue_ball_often_dictates_what_shot_is_best.&ZZ@

It looks like I need another lesson on pasting. I was trying to show the different results with this shot by by illustrating 3 differen't cue ball placements.

Clarification

Clarification

wincardona said:

Lets first address the scratch off the 1 ball. If the cue ball placement varies an inch or so then the scratch off the 1 ball becomes a factor. This was the reason I decided against Arties shot. I was shooting the shot and narrowly missing the scratch, so I adjusted my point of contact and was losing both the controll of the 3 ball and cue ball. Shooting this shot from this position was too dangerous, so I decided against the shot. If the placement of the cue ball allows you to hit the 1 ball with a half a ball hit and comfortably miss the scratch then I like Arties shot best.

Click to expand...

Billy........First let me say, that over the last several weeks, and in about five different shot situations, we have been in total agreement as to analysis and final shot choices.....This doesn't surprise me because as I told you once at Chris's billiards a couple of years ago, of the various Accustats One Pocket commentaters that I've listened to, I have agreed with your situation analysis/shot choices the most.....


Ok now, a little clarification is needed about what I originally said about this shot situation in post #7......I'm re-posting the germaine part of my original post on this particular shot situation, because everybody is calling the safety off the 4 ball my shot choice, when in fact, exactly like Billy has just posted, I originally said that Artie's shot is also MY first shot choice - IF, the cueball is laying at the correct angle for that shot.....Here's my original post >>>

One Pocket Ghost said:

If the 4 ball was about 2 inches down towards your opponents side rail, then I would shoot Artie's shot in a heartbeat, but as it looks to be laying to me, the angle from the cue ball to the 1 ball is a little to straight on for that shot, so that there's a possible pocket scratch looming off of the 1 ball into your opponent's pocket, so, alternatively....


I would probably choose to shoot this shot....resulting in hiding the 4 ball and leaving him with no way to attack me, or take control of the table

Click to expand...

thank you

thank you

One Pocket Ghost said:

Billy........First let me say, that over the last several weeks, and in about five different shot situations, we have been in total agreement as to analysis and final shot choices.....This doesn't surprise me because as I told you once at Chris's billiards a couple of years ago, of the various Accustats One Pocket commentaters that I've listened to, I have agreed with your situation analysis/shot choices the most.....


Ok now, a little clarification is needed about what I originally said about this shot situation in post #7......I'm re-posting the germaine part of my original post on this particular shot situation, because everybody is calling the safety off the 4 ball my shot choice, when in fact, exactly like Billy has just posted, I originally said that Artie's shot is also MY first shot choice - IF, the cueball is laying at the correct angle for that shot.....Here's my original post >>>

Click to expand...

Bruce, I remember you alluding to that, all I was trying to say is that if the scratch wasn't a concern than which shot is better. And by the way, I have grown to recognize and respect your shot choices. I feel that your shot choices and analysis are as good as anyone's.

wincardona said:

[CUETABLE][/CUETABLhttp://CueTable.com/P/?@4AADV4BALp4CAMG1PCbo1QDpo1RFEn4UADV4UbKx1kCbo1kCCf4kAkK1lDpo4lAkP4lVUq4lVMs1mFEn1mEnj4mAsQ4mRtp2qQtFThe_starting_position_with_the_cue_ball_often_dictates_what_shot_is_best.&ZZ@E]

Click to expand...

I Would Like To Clearify When I Reply I Am Talking About THe Position Of THe Balls. Not A Intch Her Or A INtch Thier. Everything Changes When THe Poeition oF THe Balls Are Changed. When I REply I Reply On THe Shot That Shown on the WE TAble. THat IS What I Am Replying To. ANything Can Be ChangedIf THe position Of THe Ball Gets Changed. And In A GAme You Get One Shot And One Chance To Figure Out What You Are Going To Do. And I Will Ask One More Time Is Thier A Scratch On the wei table shot that I am Replying On Not One Inch Better For Me Or One Inch Worse For me. THat was the Quistion That Needs To Be Answered Because THat Is What Changed peoples opinion thinking that thier is a scratch. From That Position. And THats What Needs To Get Adressed not the shot thats what changed peopls opinion thinking thier is a scratch from that position and thier is no scratch. The Scratch is what changed peops opinion. And Even Freddy Replied that thier was a scratch. THat Is Incorrect and not true. And Why He Would Say that thier is a scratch. I would like to know.

wincardona said:

It looks like I need another lesson on pasting. I was trying to show the different results with this shot by by illustrating 3 differen't cue ball placements.

Click to expand...

Billy,

I copied your URL for your table and it doesn't come up with anything.

1. The most foolproof way is to do your table, making sure you save any pages as you go along, is when your done, click the Copy Layout URL button

2. open up either a new thread post or post a reply in a existing thread

3. You now have a new window for a post. Hit the icon with the cueball and pencil... after doing this, do not click anywhere else, just hold down your Control key (bottom left of keyboard) and hit the letter "v" This will paste your URL in between the Cuetable brackets. Now hit Enter a few times and type what you want to. Do a preview post and it should look right.

CaliRed said:

Billy,

I copied your URL for your table and it doesn't come up with anything.

1. The most foolproof way is to do your table, making sure you save any pages as you go along, is when your done, click the Copy Layout URL button

2. open up either a new thread post or post a reply in a existing thread

3. You now have a new window for a post. Hit the icon with the cueball and pencil... after doing this, do not click anywhere else, just hold down your Control key (bottom left of keyboard) and hit the letter "v" This will paste your URL in between the Cuetable brackets. Now hit Enter a few times and type what you want to. Do a preview post and it should look right.

Click to expand...

I like to hit the "save" button before I post too. It should be mentioned that the save button is only visible if you open up the full tool palette by clicking on the little wrench icon at the bottom left of the wei table.

wincardona said:

It looks like I need another lesson on pasting. I was trying to show the different results with this shot by by illustrating 3 differen't cue ball placements.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure it is anything you are doing. When I "paste" your diagram code into a new wei table, it comes up just fine. But when I try to save it and then post it, it comes up blank

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AADV4BALk4CAUD1PBEm1QEfm1RCrn4UADV4UALN4UAkR1kBEm4kBBM4kadq1lEfm4lAkK4lSjw1mCrn4mBBP4mWKu2qQtFI_believe_it_is_very_helpfull_to_use_the_grid_option_when_pasting_problems_that_an_inch_can_make_the_difference_in_shot_selection_&ZZ@

[/CUETABLE]

Here is the original layout. As you can see with the help of Billy's diagram, there is no scratch shooting the 1-ball first shot under discussion. ~Doc
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AATW4BATo4CAUF2DBdh1PFEf3qalhMy_pocket,_I_need_1,_My__shot.&ZZ4rVMhOpponents_pocket,_he_needs_4&ZZ@[/CUETABLE][/CUETABLE]

iusedtoberich said:

This shot came up in a high dollar ahead set I was in a couple years ago. I made a HORRIBLE mistake and let my opponent get balls back into play, and even helped him. I needed one, and he needed 4. I acknowledge that mistake. But, that was in the prior innings and I could not change what I did. So this is what I faced now.

Should I:

1. Put the last ball in play by shooting it straight in, and make my opponent have to deal with breaking up the line of balls. The cue ball would be frozen on the end rail.

2. Try to play a safety off the line of balls, and begin the process of sending them back uptable out of play.

To give you an idea of the caliber of play, I was a C+ to B- player at the time. He was a solid mid B player. I was getting 4 balls. We were both experienced gamblers. And we both prepared well for this match and were in stroke.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AATW4BATo4CAUF2DBdh1PFEf3qalhMy_pocket,_I_need_1,_My__shot.&ZZ4rVMhOpponents_pocket,_he_needs_4&ZZ@[/CUETABLE]

Click to expand...

Well, as long as you asked. Have you ever considered shooting the 4 in and FOLLOWING it with the cueball? Leave him the shot at the 4. He has to shoot it and play the cueball as if he'll miss it. Which means either putting it back uptable and possibly leaving you a bank at the 4 if he misses it, or leaving it behind the spotted balls and leaving you a bank at the 3 if he misses the 4.

Or he can make the 4 and then have to hit the 3 spotted balls, probably from uptable, and open them up for you. Then you need one and he needs three. If you can't win from there, you were not going to win anyway.

Just a thought, since you were the weaker player. Always challenge your opponent in situations like this. You would be surprised at how often they will make the mistake.

Dennis

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AATW4BATo4CAUF2DBdh1PFEf3qalhMy_pocket,_I_need_1,_My__shot.&ZZ4rVMhOpponents_pocket,_he_needs_4&ZZ@4AATW4BATo4CAUF2DBdh1PFEf2XBdh2Xcxm1kFEf1kBUh2kRdj3qalhMy_pocket,_I_need_1,_My__shot.&ZZ4rVMhOpponents_pocket,_he_needs_4&ZZ@4AATW4BATo4CAUF2Dcxm2PRdj3qalhMy_pocket,_I_need_1,_My__shot.&ZZ4rVMhOpponents_pocket,_he_needs_4&ZZ@4AATW4BATo4CAUF4DAUW2PRdj3qalhMy_pocket,_I_need_1,_My__shot.&ZZ4rVMhOpponents_pocket,_he_needs_4&ZZ@[/CUETABLE]

Changing my vote

Changing my vote

Artie Bodendorfer said:

I Would Like To Clearify When I Reply I Am Talking About THe Position Of THe Balls. Not A Intch Her Or A INtch Thier. Everything Changes When THe Poeition oF THe Balls Are Changed. When I REply I Reply On THe Shot That Shown on the WE TAble. THat IS What I Am Replying To. ANything Can Be ChangedIf THe position Of THe Ball Gets Changed. And In A GAme You Get One Shot And One Chance To Figure Out What You Are Going To Do. And I Will Ask One More Time Is Thier A Scratch On the wei table shot that I am Replying On Not One Inch Better For Me Or One Inch Worse For me. THat was the Quistion That Needs To Be Answered Because THat Is What Changed peoples opinion thinking that thier is a scratch. From That Position. And THats What Needs To Get Adressed not the shot thats what changed peopls opinion thinking thier is a scratch from that position and thier is no scratch. The Scratch is what changed peops opinion. And Even Freddy Replied that thier was a scratch. THat Is Incorrect and not true. And Why He Would Say that thier is a scratch. I would like to know.

Click to expand...

Like Senator Arlin Specter, I am going over to the dark side. I actually thought Artie was shooting a different shot. I thought he was 2 railing the cue ball back to the bottom rail. With the correct, no scratch angle, I would definitely shoot off the one ball and roll down to the foot rail. That accomplishes everything that I said was necessary in my previous post. (the most important being to loosen those 3 balls in line on the spot so they can be effectively taken out of play later.) The fact that you are leaving the 4 ball on the end rail and moving a few others over to your side is even more reason to roll off the one. Sorry Artie, is the bite-light back on now?

the Beard

I never publically disagree with Incardona either. Must maintain a bright bite-light.

Two rail the cue ball??

Two rail the cue ball??

fred bentivegna said:

Like Senator Arlin Specter, I am going over to the dark side. I actually thought Artie was shooting a different shot. I thought he was 2 railing the cue ball back to the bottom rail. With the correct, no scratch angle, I would definitely shoot off the one ball and roll down to the foot rail. That accomplishes everything that I said was necessary in my previous post. (the most important being to loosen those 3 balls in line on the spot so they can be effectively taken out of play later.) The fact that you are leaving the 4 ball on the end rail and moving a few others over to your side is even more reason to roll off the one. Sorry Artie, is the bite-light back on now?

the Beard

I never publically disagree with Incardona either. Must maintain a bright bite-light.

Click to expand...

Freddie, for as knowledgeable as you are, how can you say he was referring to the 2 rail option with the cue ball?? That's not an option when you need only 1 ball.

Spend more time discussing shot selections, and less time at the off track.

No more leaks

No more leaks

wincardona said:

Freddie, for as knowledgeable as you are, how can you say he was referring to the 2 rail option with the cue ball?? That's not an option when you need only 1 ball.

Spend more time discussing shot selections, and less time at the off track.

Click to expand...

I quit the track and the casinos years ago. No dope, no broads, no leaks. The multiple, recurring WEI tables do oftentimes confuse me. That's why I post about them so seldom. You apparently, have become an expert, as you are in so many, many other fields. Artie is only an expert in 2 fields, 1pkt and sports betting. Your expertise however, in so many areas is unbounded.

the Beard

savvy is more like it

savvy is more like it

fred bentivegna said:

I quit the track and the casinos years ago. No dope, no broads, no leaks. The multiple, recurring WEI tables do oftentimes confuse me. That's why I post about them so seldom. You apparently, have become an expert, as you are in so many, many other fields. Artie is only an expert in 2 fields, 1pkt and sports betting. Your expertise however, in so many areas is unbounded.

the Beard

Click to expand...

Expert?, I would like to be an expert in many,many other fields. Thank you for the recognition, but unfortunately it's not true. But if I do something that pertains to the same thing on a daily basis I would like to be somewhat professional. That's probably the reason you quit the track, right? Now you're leakless. No one ever said that you didn't have street smarts.

wincardona said:

And by the way, I have grown to recognize and respect your shot choices.

Click to expand...

Thanks.


- Ghost