Race to 2, single elimination format

Skin · Oct 15, 2008

I am working with the local pool room manager to put on a weekly 1p tournament for the local yokels here. There are at least 8 of us who play. He's up to it but wants a race to 2, non-handicapped, s.e. format so it can be finished within 4 hours.

That's fine with me. I'll play in any format. Who can pass up the opportunity to play that much 1p! The race to 2, though, seems like it gives the guy who breaks first too much advantage. Is that right? What's the solution or is one even neccessary?

Skin

hemicudas · Oct 15, 2008

Yes it is an advantage. Solution, flip for first break. Loser breaks second game. If there is a third game, flip for break again.

Skin · Oct 15, 2008

That's a very good solution, $Bill. I'll bring it up with the manager. Thanks a lot for the idea.

Skin

One Pocket Ghost · Oct 16, 2008

Skin said:
That's a very good solution, $Bill. I'll bring it up with the manager. Thanks a lot for the idea.

Skin

Skin, That still gives the winning coin flipper (the winner of the hill-hill flip) the big advantage.......I ran the handicapped one pocket tournaments at Chris's billiards in Chicago that we had for a while several years ago and here's what I did to make it a more even/fair........In any hill-hill match, the guy whos break it was in that final game, had to go up one ball in his handicap.......So for examples, if I had two guys playing even 8 to 8 and they were tied 2 games to 2, the guy breaking had to go to 9 for that game....and if I had two guys playing 10 to 7 and they were tied 2 games to 2, and the guy breaking was the guy going to 10, than he had to go to 11 for that game.......This made it pretty fair, and the players liked it.......I recommend it for handicapped tournaments.

- Ghost

Skin · Oct 16, 2008

One Pocket Ghost said:
Skin, That still gives the winning coin flipper (the winner of the hill-hill flip) the big advantage.......I ran the handicapped one pocket tournaments at Chris's billiards in Chicago that we had for a while several years ago and here's what I did to make it a more even/fair........In any hill-hill match, the guy whos break it was in that final game, had to go up one ball in his handicap.......So for examples, if I had two guys playing even 8 to 8 and they were tied 2 games to 2, the guy breaking had to go to 9 for that game....and if I had two guys playing 10 to 7 and they were tied 2 games to 2, and the guy breaking was the guy going to 10, than he had to go to 11 for that game.......This made it pretty fair, and the players liked it.......I recommend it for handicapped tournaments.

- Ghost

Yeah, it is hard to find a way to completely eliminate the advantage of the break in a race to 2.

My first solution to this was to handicap the first game 8-7 in favor of the player taking the shot after the break because at our speeds the break is not worth 2 balls. After that, just alternate breaks.

Then I thought it would be better to play the tournament as a race to 5 but extend it over several weeks. The players who were matched would have to find an agreeable time to play that week and get their match over before the beginning of matches the next week. But that takes a long time.

I don't think the manager wants any handicapping or extended play. He has a financial interest in the beers he is selling during compact tournaments, of course, and he has been great about doing different games twice a week. Plus, he wants to close on time (city ordinance).

But, handicapping one ball in the hill-hill is a good idea, also. Maybe it is a better formula than handicapping the first game.

Of course, I am probably going to go away from here more confused than I was when I first posted. One pocket! Grrrrrrrr.

Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions, Ghost. I very much appreciate them.

Skin

hemicudas · Oct 16, 2008

One Pocket Ghost said:
Skin, That still gives the winning coin flipper (the winner of the hill-hill flip) the big advantage.......I ran the handicapped one pocket tournaments at Chris's billiards in Chicago that we had for a while several years ago and here's what I did to make it a more even/fair........In any hill-hill match, the guy whos break it was in that final game, had to go up one ball in his handicap.......So for examples, if I had two guys playing even 8 to 8 and they were tied 2 games to 2, the guy breaking had to go to 9 for that game....and if I had two guys playing 10 to 7 and they were tied 2 games to 2, and the guy breaking was the guy going to 10, than he had to go to 11 for that game.......This made it pretty fair, and the players liked it.......I recommend it for handicapped tournaments.

- Ghost

That's a good idea, if it was a handicap tourney Bruce but he stated it is, non-handicapped. Flipping twice is as fair as you can get.

One Pocket Ghost · Oct 16, 2008

hemicudas said:
That's a good idea, if it was a handicap tourney Bruce but he stated it is, non-handicapped.

Bill, Let me clarify....My handicap can be used just as well for handicapped or non-handicapped tournaments......As my first example stated in my first post, if two guys are playing even 8 to 8, then the breaker in the hill-hill game gives the other guy 9 to 8.......So when using my handicap in a non-handicapped tournament, 9 to 8 would be the only spot that could/would be employed.

- Ghost

hemicudas · Oct 17, 2008

One Pocket Ghost said:
Bill, Let me clarify....My handicap can be used just as well for handicapped or non-handicapped tournaments......As my first example stated in my first post, if two guys are playing even 8 to 8, then the breaker in the hill-hill game gives the other guy 9 to 8.......So when using my handicap in a non-handicapped tournament, 9 to 8 would be the only spot that could/would be employed.

- Ghost

Your way will work, Bruce but you are talking to a guy that used to flip coins for $1K per flip. It's better odds than you get in Vegas. My handle, $Bill, refers to the $100 per game I always wanted to crank it up for whether it be 9 ball or any other game. If someone wont flip a coin for the final break he hasn't got enough gamble that I would want to play him in the first place.

Remember what Freddy said about playing Keith banks at N. Shore? Phil tossed him either 2 or 3 barrels and hauled ass to the track. That is the reputation Chris' and N. Shore had, very nitty and if you could get a game for $100 you better be shooting one or two barrels at um because that's all you could win.

No transplants were needed at the King And I and other bars around town. I ask you, what would have happened if I had come to N. Shore and beat one of the better players there out of 3 or 4 games? The next day it's all over town and I get no action in the city. Smart players knew this and wouldn't go to N. Shore, Chris' or the Cafe unless it was to watch and get lines on people.

Artie, lived by this rule. Why play tough action where you couldn't win anything when you could be elsewhere, stealing money, in a place where they shook your hand as you were walking out the door?

I am talking about players who lived in Chicagoland. Road players who had lines on people would go in and take their shots and were out of town the next day. Boston Joey, certainly didn't make N. Shore his first stop in Chicago. The King And I, was his first choice because of the easy action there. The fact that he caught Rocket Man in dead stroke and went busted is just part of the gambling aspect of the road player.

If you have any gamble whatsoever about you,,,,,,,,,,,,, flip the damn coin.

SactownTom · Oct 17, 2008

When we ran mini-tournaments just before our Summer Jamborees, we had a great time with this format.

8 players single elimination.
Race to 15 balls made.
lag for break, and at the end of the first rack if the score is 15-0 that player wins. if it is less than 15-0, the player with the lowest number of balls pocketed has the break.

if the score is tied at 7-7 and you are shooting.... maybe you might want to sink the last ball into your opponents pocket and then you get the break.

4 matches, then 2 then 1, and usually over in less than 2 hours. Especially if you have players of the caliber of Tony Chohan, Jose Parica, Santos Sambajon JR and Billy Palmer.

We charged $25 per man and added $50 for a total of $250, $200 for 1st and $50 for 2nd.

philwelch · Oct 17, 2008

hemicudas said:
Your way will work, Bruce but you are talking to a guy that used to flip coins for $1K per flip. It's better odds than you get in Vegas. My handle, $Bill, refers to the $100 per game I always wanted to crank it up for whether it be 9 ball or any other game. If someone wont flip a coin for the final break he hasn't got enough gamble that I would want to play him in the first place.

Remember what Freddy said about playing Keith banks at N. Shore? Phil tossed him either 2 or 3 barrels and hauled ass to the track. That is the reputation Chris' and N. Shore had, very nitty and if you could get a game for $100 you better be shooting one or two barrels at um because that's all you could win.

No transplants were needed at the King And I and other bars around town. I ask you, what would have happened if I had come to N. Shore and beat one of the better players there out of 3 or 4 games? The next day it's all over town and I get no action in the city. Smart players knew this and wouldn't go to N. Shore, Chris' or the Cafe unless it was to watch and get lines on people.

Artie, lived by this rule. Why play tough action where you couldn't win anything when you could be elsewhere, stealing money, in a place where they shook your hand as you were walking out the door?

I am talking about players who lived in Chicagoland. Road players who had lines on people would go in and take their shots and were out of town the next day. Boston Joey, certainly didn't make N. Shore his first stop in Chicago. The King And I, was his first choice because of the easy action there. The fact that he caught Rocket Man in dead stroke and went busted is just part of the gambling aspect of the road player.

If you have any gamble whatsoever about you,,,,,,,,,,,,, flip the damn coin.

You must admit Rocketman had more gamble than most. Anyone know how Rocket's doing these days? Haven't seen him in years, he was always an entertaining character who would give you more than a fair game.

Artie Bodendorfer · Oct 18, 2008

philwelch said:
You must admit Rocketman had more gamble than most. Anyone know how Rocket's doing these days? Haven't seen him in years, he was always an entertaining character who would give you more than a fair game.

Rocket man was good action and he loved to play. My Runner Quick Rick use to back him. And he loved backing the Rocket Man. I guess he was always in orbit. But thats ok he loved to play and I can honestly say he did not pick his spots he would make a game with anyone. And he was a nice guy. And my Runner Quick Rick thought the world of him. Keep on fiering Rocket man.

Race to 2, single elimination format

Skin

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hemicudas

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Skin

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Skin

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hemicudas

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