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Old 01-21-2019, 08:54 PM
cityhall cityhall is offline
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Default Can you decline a foul your opponent calls on himself?

If your opponent calls a non obvious foul on himself for something like a double hit or moving two object balls, can you decline it if the spotted ball blocks your shot?

I've asked a few people and no one has any idea who gets final say when you have this reverse dispute about a foul.
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Old 01-21-2019, 09:26 PM
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NH Steve NH Steve is offline
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Originally Posted by cityhall View Post
If your opponent calls a non obvious foul on himself for something like a double hit or moving two object balls, can you decline it if the spotted ball blocks your shot?

I've asked a few people and no one has any idea who gets final say when you have this reverse dispute about a foul.
Great question!! With no ref or neutral observer, I would lean toward yes, as the opponent, you should be able to decline a foul you did not see. Of course you could accept it if you wanted too. If there is a ref or neutral, then no, it's a foul.

On the flip side, there are plenty of times a shooter might foul but say nothing, and with it not being particularly obvious or the opponent not paying close attention, the shooter gets away with it.
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Old 01-21-2019, 11:14 PM
vapros vapros is offline
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I think we should have instant replay on uncalled fouls, but not until after the Super Bowl.
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Old 01-22-2019, 02:49 AM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is offline
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CityHall,
So obviously you think he did not foul, right?
Or do you think it is your right as the opponent to determine if the shooter fouled?
Or do you think he is cheating and did not foul, but really called a foul upon himself to block your next shot? I can see this happening, for there are rules written just because players bend the rules, and more that could be written that are not.

And in your case a rule could be written that states: A player can not call a foul upon themselves, but must respond when questioned as to whether they fouled.

But there is no rule governing this in WPA and I do not think CSI covers this specifically. A whole lot of players, out of what they think is good sportsmanship, call a foul upon themselves. There is no rule you have to call a foul upon yourself, nor should it ever be regarding as poor sportsmanship to not call a foul upon yourself.

Just tonight in BCAPL league 8-ball a player called a foul upon himself, stating he contacted the opponents ball first, the opponent said no it was a good hit. And it was!

It is the responsibility of the opponent to pay attention to the game, and to call fouls. So how did it turn out? Whitey
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:38 AM
El Chapo El Chapo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis "Whitey" Young View Post
CityHall,
So obviously you think he did not foul, right?
Or do you think it is your right as the opponent to determine if the shooter fouled?
Or do you think he is cheating and did not foul, but really called a foul upon himself to block your next shot? I can see this happening, for there are rules written just because players bend the rules, and more that could be written that are not.

And in your case a rule could be written that states: A player can not call a foul upon themselves, but must respond when questioned as to whether they fouled.

But there is no rule governing this in WPA and I do not think CSI covers this specifically. A whole lot of players, out of what they think is good sportsmanship, call a foul upon themselves. There is no rule you have to call a foul upon yourself, nor should it ever be regarding as poor sportsmanship to not call a foul upon yourself.

Just tonight in BCAPL league 8-ball a player called a foul upon himself, stating he contacted the opponents ball first, the opponent said no it was a good hit. And it was!

It is the responsibility of the opponent to pay attention to the game, and to call fouls. So how did it turn out? Whitey
I totally agree with that. I also don't think anyone should portray players as heros for calling fouls on themselves. It is just something they did. This is used as sort of posturing in the pool world on many occasions, and i just don't agree with it. A player is not some sort of saint, stand up guy if he calls fouls on himself. I am not knocking his behavior either, just saying it doesn't matter to me in the slightest when considering his character.
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:20 AM
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Jimmy B Jimmy B is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cityhall View Post
If your opponent calls a non obvious foul on himself for something like a double hit or moving two object balls, can you decline it if the spotted ball blocks your shot?

I've asked a few people and no one has any idea who gets final say when you have this reverse dispute about a foul.


No.. If you can decline a foul in that situation, then you would have to be able to decline it in another situation, such as when they follow your last ball in.. How can you ever pick and choose on that??!!
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:34 AM
lll lll is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cityhall View Post
If your opponent calls a non obvious foul on himself for something like a double hit or moving two object balls, can you decline it if the spotted ball blocks your shot?

I've asked a few people and no one has any idea who gets final say when you have this reverse dispute about a foul.
this is an interesting question because what if your opponent says he fouled when he did not and as you describe above the spotted ball blocks your shot??
the calling a foul on yourself could be a move like conveniently remembering when to say your opponent or you needs to spot a forgotten owed ball.
I think the answer is to treat the called on yourself foul the same way
spot the ball right away or wait 2 innings
just a thought
icbw
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Old 01-22-2019, 12:55 PM
jerry matchin jerry matchin is offline
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I think in most situations a person calling a foul on himself is a good sport BUT beware of people bearing gifts. I am not aware of any rule that says you have to accept the self called foul but I just don't know for sure. It seems as though the incoming shooter might have some say in the self called foul and whether or not they have to accept it. Help here Steve Booth, what say thee?
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Old 01-23-2019, 05:32 AM
El Chapo El Chapo is offline
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Maybe we could make it a foul to call a foul on yourself
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Old 01-23-2019, 08:23 AM
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NH Steve NH Steve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry matchin View Post
I think in most situations a person calling a foul on himself is a good sport BUT beware of people bearing gifts. I am not aware of any rule that says you have to accept the self called foul but I just don't know for sure. It seems as though the incoming shooter might have some say in the self called foul and whether or not they have to accept it. Help here Steve Booth, what say thee?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Steve View Post
Great question!! With no ref or neutral observer, I would lean toward yes, as the opponent, you should be able to decline a foul you did not see. Of course you could accept it if you wanted too. If there is a ref or neutral, then no, it's a foul.

On the flip side, there are plenty of times a shooter might foul but say nothing, and with it not being particularly obvious or the opponent not paying close attention, the shooter gets away with it.
I commented earlier -- it is definitely a good question!

PS, it would not be a question playing with any variation of darmoose going forward rule idea -- who is going to turn down a ball lol?
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