What would you do - Gary Spaeth - John Brumback

CaliRed · May 23, 2012

This is at the 1st DCC, Gary Spaeth vs John Brumback. I haven't got to see Gary play much at all, but a fine gentleman here gave me this VHS tape. WOW!! He's certainly a helluva banker

I got to see John's game from 13 years ago too. Now John didn't have a very good match in this one, so I couldn't find any really good shots that he pulled, so I'm going to have to go with Gary here. Gary pulled many a nice shot in this match.

Gary came out of the gate and ran a 4, then a 1 to take the first game. This is game 2 that John wins and John is up 2-0 in this game. It's Gary's shot, Race to 3, Gary up 1-0 in games, behind 2-0 in the count.

Gary would go on to win this match 3-2, but he would have closed it out at 3-1, if he wouldn't have hung up about 5 or 6 match balls. And I mean hung up, like how the hell didn't they drop

In John's defense though, Billy mentioned that Gary told him that he spotted John 8-7 and never won a game, so John's game was pretty strong 13 years ago, against a top level banker.

So... what would you do? John, let if you read this, please tell me a story about this match and anything that comes to mind about that time frame of your life and playing Gary.

This DVD is at Accu-stats at http://www.1vshop.com/Accu-Stats/st...76&PNAME=Gary+Spaeth+vs.+John+Brumback*+(DVD)

fred bentivegna · May 24, 2012

Cross side 2 ball. Use a "light" stroke, medium speed, so the cue ball doesnt make contact with the 8 ball. Its at least an even money shot for any decent banker.

Beard

Ken_4fun · May 24, 2012

I would cross the 7 ball. IMO its better than even money, and shooting with enough speed I would be in position to cross the 8 or the duece on the next shot.

Ken

Banks · May 24, 2012

Pocket that 1 in the corner, take the CB back to the upper left part of the table. The most reasonable shot he may have from there would be the back-cut 8 through traffic. Other than that, you take something else and miss and he's got a whole buffet down there. Does that 2 go? Looks like you'd have to hit a little higher up on the rail to get by the first ball, combined with the direction of the hit, I'd be scared it would go wide without having to fudge with it and make it risky all over again.

wgcp · May 24, 2012

I would punt from here, two rail the eight to put it down by the nine ball and park the cue 1/2 diamond from the top left corner... he would have to leave me a shot in my next inning...

Cowboy Dennis · May 24, 2012

CaliRed said:
This is game 2 that John wins and John is up 2-0 in this game. It's Gary's shot, Race to 3, Gary up 1-0 in games, behind 2-0 in the count.

Greg,

What is the correct ball count? There are 5 balls on the table and John is up 2-0 this game

.

Dennis

Banks · May 26, 2012

Cowboy Dennis said:
Greg,

What is the correct ball count? There are 5 balls on the table and John is up 2-0 this game.

Dennis

I'm beginning to think that Greg forgot about this thread.

The more I have to see those screen shots, the more I want to fire at that 8.

CaliRed · May 26, 2012

Banks said:
I'm beginning to think that Greg forgot about this thread. The more I have to see those screen shots, the more I want to fire at that 8.

Nah...I will get my ball count right and post Gary's choice today

backplaying · May 27, 2012

Play a two way, 9 across corner leaving the cue ball by the left hand pocket for a saftey.

NH Steve · May 27, 2012

Looks to me like Gary has a pretty much straight ahead cross corner on the 2-ball.

gulfportdoc · May 27, 2012

NH Steve said:
Looks to me like Gary has a pretty much straight ahead cross corner on the 2-ball.

Yeah, that's the shot I picked when I first looked at the layout. But after reading some of the other posts, I assumed that seasoned banks players don't like long cross-corners. Looks like the bank needs to be cut just very slightly to the left.

Doc

fred bentivegna · May 27, 2012

gulfportdoc said:
Yeah, that's the shot I picked when I first looked at the layout. But after reading some of the other posts, I assumed that seasoned banks players don't like long cross-corners. Looks like the bank needs to be cut just very slightly to the left.

Doc

You got that right. If I was staking a player and he didnt shoot either one of the two cross sides, I would think he was dumping. Careful as I am, I would never chose to shoot the 8 straight back unless I was in the 1 hole.

Shooting the long cross corner, while certainly make-able, and only about 8 or 9 to 5 against, will leave a jillion easy shots. He will be left very close to his work on several different shots. I will even today, beat any living human that leaves me a foot away from the object ball every time. Anybody that paid attention to me on previous suggestions should remember that I said to never shoot at a shot -- unless you have to, or unless you are purposely playing position -- that will leave an easier shot than the one you are shooting at. That, under careful examination is just common sense.

That principle doesnt apply to the 2 available cross sides because they are both no more than even money to make.

So then why would I choose the 8 ball straight back if I was in the one hole?
Because if I miss either of the two even $ side shots I would be at risk of selling out the whole game, because all the remaining balls are in play. I am a much bigger favorite to win the game then even money.

Beard

What if the 8 ball wasnt there and I was in the 1 hole? I would probably now be forced to shoot either of the 2 cross sides. if I was super puking, then I might thin the 9, trying to put in on, or near the foot rail, taking it out of play and sending the rock to the back room.

gulfportdoc · May 27, 2012

I like to hear your reasoning, Beard. It's very instructive. Of all the shots, to me the 7 cross-side is most appealing. I don't believe the 2 crosses past the other two balls.

How would you shoot the 8 straight-back? Would you stiffen it, or roll it?

Doc

CaliRed · May 27, 2012

ha! I figured I would get you guys on this one

Update on the ball score. Gary is behind 4 to -1 in this game. He scratched on the break.

I don't know, I guess I'm not seeing those balls banking to the side pocket. It just looks like to me, that they can't go no matter what kind of english you put on them, but I'm sure it's hard to tell unless we had a overhead view. These types of views can be misleading. I think we have to admit that if they would have went, Gary would have been all over them I'm guessing

Anyways, he pulls off a fantastic shot by dbl banking the 1 ball in the same pocket it's near to. He avoids the dbl kiss to make a spectacular shot.

I've included 2 screenshots to show how close the cueball was on the dbl kiss and where it hit on the rail.

BONUS!!! The actual shot!

[youtube]kgL5aEtvjz0[/youtube]

SJDinPHX · May 27, 2012

CaliRed said:
ha! I figured I would get you guys on this one

Update on the ball score. Gary is behind 4 to -1 in this game. He scratched on the break.

I don't know, I guess I'm not seeing those balls banking to the side pocket. It just looks like to me, that they can't go no matter what kind of english you put on them, but I'm sure it's hard to tell unless we had a overhead view. These types of views can be misleading. I think we have to admit that if they would have went, Gary would have been all over them I'm guessing

Anyways, he pulls off a fantastic shot by dbl banking the 1 ball in the same pocket it's near to. He avoids the dbl kiss to make a spectacular shot.

I've included 2 screenshots to show how close the cueball was on the dbl kiss and where it hit on the rail.

BONUS!!! The actual shot!
View attachment 5999
View attachment 6000

[youtube]kgL5aEtvjz0[/youtube]

Greg...Do you realize you may have made an enemy of the Beardmonster ???.. You already have the Ghoastess pissed at you..Trust me...It is not easy going to war, with the entire city of Chicago...They are "Ultra Sensitive" to the max...They make great friends, but bitter, vindictive, and vicious enemies...There may be be a contract out on you, as we speak...

PS..You're on you own..

"Duck" McDuck

Cowboy Dennis · May 27, 2012

SJDinPHX said:
Greg...Do you realize you may have made an enemy of the Beardmonster ???.. You already have the Ghoastess pissed at you..Trust me...It is not easy going to war, with the entire city of Chicago...They are "Ultra Sensitive" to the max...They make great friends, but bitter, vindictive, and vicious enemies...There may be be a contract out on you, as we speak...

PS..You're on you own..

"Duck" McDuck

Dear "Short Memory McDuck",

I'm certain by your response you don't recall that Mr. Beardtivegna made a bankshot very similar to this in a match against Richie Richeson at the 1996 U.S. Open in Kalamazoo, Mich.. I can't believe you've forgotten that shot

. It's a valid one-pocket bank when the ball is nearer the rail.

RBL

CaliRed · May 27, 2012

Cowboy Dennis said:
Dear "Short Memory McDuck",

I'm certain by your response you don't recall that Mr. Beardtivegna made a bankshot very similar to this in a match against Richie Richeson at the 1996 U.S. Open in Kalamazoo, Mich.. I can't believe you've forgotten that shot. It's a valid one-pocket bank when the ball is nearer the rail.

RBL

I think "Duck" McDuck (I'm loving his "names" he keeps coming up with

) is suggesting by me saying it didn't appear that those balls bank cross side that because Mr. Beardivegna would be upset with me for questioning him on his choice of shot. He's clearly trying to stir up sh1t and trying to get the Chicago crowd against the little podunk NE crowd (of 1)

Well I'm sure Freddy will take it like I meant it, which would be NOT questioning his choice of shots, as he has been a top level banker most of his life and knows I have the highest respect of his ability and knowledge beings I appreciate the fine art of banking, but that I am simply saying the banks don't appear to go TO my limited knowledge, but that the screenshot views can be very misleading.

Being the bank pool aficionado that "Duck" McBank is, he should understand this.

helluva shot though, and he didn't agonize over it either. It appears he's shot it a few times before.

How is his name pronounced anyways?

SPAY ETH or all one word SPAYETH

Cowboy Dennis · May 28, 2012

CaliRed said:
Well I'm sure Freddy will take it like I meant it, which would be NOT questioning his choice of shots, as he has been a top level banker most of his life and knows I have the highest respect of his ability and knowledge beings I appreciate the fine art of banking.

Yeah, that line's not gonna get any response from McDuck

.

RBL

fred bentivegna · May 28, 2012

gulfportdoc said:
Yeah, that's the shot I picked when I first looked at the layout. But after reading some of the other posts, I assumed that seasoned banks players don't like long cross-corners. Looks like the bank needs to be cut just very slightly to the left.

Doc

If I did choose the 8, I would roll it, but you need to apply extreme rt hand english. If I cant get the cue ball to the end rail then I wouldnt shoot the 8 no matter what. Very touchy shot, needs to be hit almost dead full with sliding, extreme rt hand juice. Fortunately for me, I know how to shoot it. It would be a mystery for most bankers (rolling it that is).

The long cross corner is not such a bad shot except you are going to leave the cue ball too near to the other balls.

Beard

fred bentivegna · May 28, 2012

Anyone who has my DVD, Banks That Dont Go -- But Do, can confirm that I show that shot in three forms. I make it once across, twice across, and three times across. I made it twice across on Hillbilly Charlie Bryant in DCC and played position and got out on him, with him in the 1 hole. Before you can shoot it, however, it must be laying a very particular way. Very difficult to smoke it out on a 2 dimensional diagram with a bad angle (not a flat view).

Suffice to say, now that I know the shot was laying right, for those who know how to shoot that shot, it was a good choice. The only thing I would have done differently would have been to play position on another shot. (Gary apparently was trailing 4 to minus 1 at the time) I would have never let the cue ball wind up on the head rail with that score. I would have hit it easier or harder to make sure I got another shot.

Now, If you can imagine that that shot doesnt go, or you dont know how to execute it anyway, then you would do well to follow my advice from the previous post I made (#12).

Beard

Someone who has paid careful attn to my banking suggestions, one Chris Gentile, called me last night to tell me he played "Chip" ? somebody bank pool. Must be a very good player as he was playing Shannon Murphy even at the Cincinnati tourn. Chris charged him 12 games at $500 a game. Chris made it a point to mention how wonderful it is to play people, no matter how good they are, that dont know how to move like the Chicago boys.

What would you do - Gary Spaeth - John Brumback

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